Nazi Cosplay

The Core RPGC Main Forum
81

I think some people are taking it way too seriously. When I dress up as a type of person the costume doesn’t consume my thoughts and turn me into one of those people. If I dress up as a cat I don’t find bugs tasty and develop a very overwhelming urge to lick myself. Just because you wear a costume doesn’t mean to say that you HAVE to find some beliefs in the values that it represents.

These people most likely don’t go around half the world in a wooden sailing boat raping and pillaging villages and beating many people into terror do they? I also feel pretty safe in saying that they don’t want to either.

Costumes are just that: Costumes. You wear them out of the enjoyment you get from walking around dressed up as someone other than yourself, whether you choose to dress up as a nazi, or a viking, or as a hun, it doesn’t mean that you have to abide by the values that the people that once wore these costumes abided by. Of course, maybe some of those people dressed as nazis do find that they agree with the values represented by nazism, but to say that because they take an interest in the costume, they must therefore like nazism is stereotypical labelling that has no place in an intelligent world.

I just don’t see how it’s so hard for some of you to accept that just because they wear a nazi costume doesn’t mean they like nazism.

82

As far as I know they are just dressing up. The Nationalsozialistische Japanische Arbeiterpartei or NSJAP are quite different but also the same as normal Nazism. They put more Samurai Spirit into Nazism. These cosplayers are just dressing up as the normal Schutzstaffel not any Samurai version of it. However some NSJAP members have dressed up like the Schutzstaffel, but not in any great numbers that I’ve seen or heard about.

83

Integral Hellsing!

84

Well, Nazi uniforms and swastikas are such specific symbols that I think that if someone does use the symbols, its to stand for something. Among those who know about Hitler’s philosophy, Nazism is a symbol of the belief in racial “castes” and a belief in fascism. Among those who don’t, its a symbol of hate and anti-semitism, Of course people should be allowed to dress that way if they want - but if a country starts developing a Nazi cosplaying fad, I think its a sign of deeper resentment and hate or admiration for Hitler’s philosophy. Now, we don’t from the article how widespread this thing is, or if its even a fad to begin; it could just be the media seizing on a very few people. I’m sure there are people in America who like to dress up as Nazis.

85

This from what I gathered was not that big. Maybe 6-12 people if that. There is no solid link about it, just scattered little tidbits. Here’s one of the better ones I just found

Remember that whole thing about being in another culture? No one here is obligated to operate by your moral standards. Their perception of what is and is not offensive is probably different than what you are used to. In special regard to those who cosplay as Nazis, you might notice that they are usually accompanied by people cosplaying as Russian soldiers, U.S. soldiers, and various other military persona from different eras along with the other military otaku. Those guys are just war/gun/military otakus. (or perhaps cosplaying a character from a manga/anime set in Nazi Germany) I’m not going to make a debate out of the “politics of hate” in Hitler’s Germany, but I wouldn’t expect any cosplayers who dress as Nazis to be anti-Semitic. Remember that cosplay has an entirely different context than real life. Try to imagine someone in a civil war recreation society. If they are on the south side, it doesn’t mean they necessarily support slavery, support states-rights, or want to break off from the rest of the U.S. Before you go on a crusade of your own, take a couple steps back and remember where you are.

It seems that the nazi cosplayers in the pictures aren’t with anyone else though. :thinking:

86

That’s basically the whole post, so I saved Xwing a reply! And, if he doesn’t reply to any of that, it takes the <i>stupid</i> back-and-forth element out of this thread!

Now…

The evidence that they’re enamored with Nazism is that they’re wearing fucking Nazi costumes! Why else would they wear them? Because they think they look cool?

claps

If they wanted to dress up in some kind of power uniform, why not just wear a regular military costume? No, Nazi uniforms are such a specific symbol that if Japanese are dressing up as Nazis, it shows they are enamored with some part of the Nazi philosophy or with Hitler’s reign, be it the racial aspects or the fascist aspects or whatever.

Same reasons kids here dress up as crusaders and terrorists. I mean, if <i>they</i> wanted a power uniform, why not just a regular knight or just a military costume? They must be enamored with some part of the slaughter involved in the holy wars or the violent ideology that made this happen, right? It also must be because they must in some part support the terrorists who kill civilians, right?

A cosplay is a place to <i>dress up</i> and fuck around! You don’t need to be any more politically correct in choosing a cosplay costume any more than you would need in choosing a costume for Halloween. So far all the justification for the kids that dress up as crusaders and terrorists is that it’s Halloween, and it’s just all fun and games. Well, guess what? Cosplays work the same way!

87

Nobody’s even saying that. It’s more over issues if dressing up as a nazi is decent and respectful and if people have the right to enjoy it.

88

Then what Xwing said about culturally-cultivated moral standards hold true. There are plenty of examples where
a) An ideology was seen as just as bad as Nazism at a point in time, but we don’t think so now
b) An ideology caused even more innocent blood to be shed than Nazism did, including war casulties
c) Nazism is not as tabooed in another developed country where people are just as well educated, if not better

And now we’re saying whether these people have or deserve the <i>right</i> to enjoy a costume. What’s saying that people over here don’t deserve the right to dress up as some of the things they do on Halloween or at costume parties?

89

It’s not just a costume, it’s fucking nazi get up. people can throw around all the big words and lengthy paragraphs they want, but obviously not everyone will see it eye it eye, and I sure as hell don’t understand. I was just merely explaining my opinion on how it can be seen as disgusting (and personally thing it is) but of course, the big boys have to jump in and make a big sophisticated explaination over why their opinion holds more ground.

90

You can express your opinion all you want. Please don’t get mad :stuck_out_tongue: I just said that Xwing was right in that culture does give people some localized moral standards. If you can find anyone who said or even <i>implied</i> that their opinion held more ground or was more important or “right” or whatever, then fine. But playing the “I was just expression my opinion!” card doesn’t work now because you’ve already replied and re-replied to a lot of the things posted.

All I’m saying is that yes, it is a <i>Nazi</i> costume, but crusaders, terrorists, communists, bomber pilots are/were at one point <i>seen as just as bad</i>. We only see Nazis as <i>worse</i> because of our <i>culture</i>. People in some African countries eat insects, which is perfectly normal to them and disgusting to us.

91

Just because people wear costumes of Nazi uniforms does not necessarily mean they in any way identify with the Nazis. When I was much younger, middle shool I believe, I dressed up as Freddy Kreuger for halloween. Do I identify with crazed murderers who haunt people’s dreams? Of course not. Even cosplaying, which isn’t the same circumstance as halloween by any stretch does not require any kind of agreement with the one they portray. I have seen many cosplay pictures, and I seriously doubt very many people “identify” with Asuka.

I have Jewish relatives who came from the Russia/Poland area in the 1930s, and I find Nazi-ism to be horribly offensive. However, the uniform and the swastika do not offend me, the beliefs they held, and the acts they performed are all that matters. A modern neo-nazi can wear a US Military uniform, and They will still offend me, because their beliefs are horrific. A cute Japanese girl dressing up in an old Nazi uniform does not. Not unless I have reason to believe it isn’t just play, and that they actually follow the same belief system.

92

Yeah, but you could also argue that because there is such a disgust of Nazism, for someone to go against that taboo and dress up as a Nazi they must have a very strong impulse to do so. I mean, people are saying its the same as dressing up as a monster for Halloween; you’re not gonna get ostracized and who knows what if you if you go outside dressed as a monster, but you will if you’re dressed as a Nazi.

93

I’ve replied again and again because it seemed as if I were somehow in the wrong for thinking it may be a little offensive dressing up as a nazi. Eating insects isn’t offensive to the rest of us, is it? That’s what I’m saying, I get that what may be normal to other people may not be normal to me, but sometimes you have to look beyond that and just look at the decency and credibility of the action performed, in this case, dressing up as a german soldier who under command have helped put millions of people to death. I don’t see that as entertainment, like the symbolism is still there. But whatever, I just have respect for past historical events, and I feel like WWII is being mocked or taken for granted when girls think it’s fun to dress up and parade around as soldiers, especially ones that are offensive to those here in the west. I think it’s quite ignorant, and the men and women who do it may not even understand the history to their image, but that just makes it worse for me.

94

Yeah, except you forgot the part where I’m not denying making things up :stuck_out_tongue: Actually, I’d call it assuming things, because I’ve seen his type before. The type who thinks he’s special and doesn’t fit into any of your typical human stereotypes, when really he fits extremely nicely into the I-think-anime/manga/cosplay/insertjapanesefadhere-is-HUGE-in-Japan-when-really-it’s-not category.

I just kinda decided to pre-empt his dillusions before he even started spitting them out because it’s so typical of people on RPG forums to do so, and that’s why I unconsciously went off on topics he didn’t even touch :stuck_out_tongue:

I just want him to recognize that cosplay is not common in Japan, and is in fact a lot less common in Japan than it is in North America. An anime convention in Japan is like a Star Trek convention in America (I mention conventions because that’s where the huge majority of cosplay happens). They exist, and there is cosplay, but Americans make a much bigger deal out of Anime than the Japanese do. There’s probably a dozen Anime Conventions for every Star Trek convention in NA. It’s because we make a huge deal out of something that is not huge, even in it’s homeland :stuck_out_tongue:

And Cless, er, if you’re gonna quote things I MADE UP at least be accurate :stuck_out_tongue: Only half the things you quoted were opinion or made up and even that half was edumacated assumptions based on his behavior (intended to emphasize something, such as the unbelievability of the existance of his “friends from Japan” giving him top secret information that enlightens him or something) or completely out of context :stuck_out_tongue: I do my research kiddo.

And yes, people did call him a nutcase. Maybe not by saying “You’re a nutcase, Xwing!” but in essence they told him he was full of it.

95

And yes, people did call him a nutcase. Maybe not by saying “You’re a nutcase, Xwing!” but in essence they told him he was full of it.

Hades, your attempts at revisionism are quite silly and immature. You claimed that Mazrim Taim was calling me a yokel; he replied, “Fool, don’t put words in my MOUTH!” You thought Cless’s compliment was a joke, so you replied, “He’s hillarious. lol :P.” He answered, “No, seriously.”

Furthermore, when I argue, I’m not looking for group popularity. It’d be easy to eloquently argue that dressing up as a nazi is evil, and condemn these Japanese cosplayers. That’s one shortcut to popularity, to always say what people want to hear. I also think it’s fairly despicable. So <i>even if</i> anyone besides you started exclaiming, “You’re a nutcase, Xwing!” I wouldn’t be concerned.

You, on the other hand, seem to think it’s very important to have the most popular opinion, to have everyone agreeing with you. Your post after our first argument read, “asserts victory because he’s cool like that.” You’re <i>still</i> desperate to convince everyone you “won” the argument, posting things like, “And yes, people did call him a nutcase. Maybe not by saying ‘You’re a nutcase, Xwing!’ but in essence they told him he was full of it.” If you want to assert “victory” further - whatever “victory” means in a message board argument - feel free. Then you can rest easy, having temporarily dealt with whatever insecurity is behind your immature posts - such as the following:

I just kinda decided to pre-empt his dillusions before he even started spitting them out because it’s so typical of people on RPG forums to do so, and that’s why I unconsciously went off on topics he didn’t even touch :stuck_out_tongue:
I went to dictionary.com, and looked up “inferiority complex”. It reads, “A persistent sense of inadequacy or a tendency to self-diminishment, sometimes resulting in excessive aggressiveness through overcompensation.” Indeed, excessive aggressiveness through overcompensation. Please, Hades, deal with your inferiority complex somewhere else.

Now, back to the argument. There have been dozens of posts since I last looked over this thread, so, rather than reply to them all, I’ll rephrase what I’ve been saying.

So, you think there’s something wrong with cosplaying a nazi. The first question to ask is, why? What makes it wrong? Then you go through the possible reasons: “Dressing up as something evil is wrong.” Okay, except that people dress up countless “evil” things, whether on Halloween or while cosplaying. Pirates, murderers, crusaders, etc.

Next possible reason for it to be wrong: “Dressing up as something offensive to other people is insensitive and cruel.” Sounds okay, except that people conveniently forget this as long as the costume in question isn’t a nazi costume. I know extremely religious people that are offended by witches on Halloween - yet you’d agree it’d be silly to worry about them being offended. So sensitivity clearly isn’t the issue.

Next possible reason: “It’s okay for people to be offended by some things (like nazi costumes), but not others (like murderer costumes).” This is where the idiosyncrasy becomes apparent. Why is it okay to dress up as a murderer, but not a nazi? An individual, nazi soldier <i>is</i> just a murderer. There must be some sort of taboo on the idea of “nazi,” because the way nazi costumes are treated is very inconsistent with the treatment of other “evil” costumes. But it is just taboo.

It’s very difficult to make people realize that their convictions about what’s “okay” and “not okay” are simply cultural taboos. It’s easy to mindlessly reaffirm those taboos - e.g., “It’s not just a costume, it’s fucking nazi get up.” Nevertheless, a taboo is a taboo. It’s not some <i>special</i> insight to the moral order of the universe. A costume <i>is</i> a costume, whether nazi or witch or murderer. There is no reason, consistent with the rest of our behavior, for condemning these Japanese for cosplaying as nazis.

96

You know you aren’t helping your case when you say hades has an inferiority complex, you’re just insulting him as he’s insulted you. Theres no reason to condemn those that wear nazi costumes but I bet there would be a happy group of people to kick their asses.

97

That pretty much sums it up. As I said before, it’s extremely unlikely that the people wearing those uniforms actually want to be nazis, since they’re ASIAN. The nazis believed anyone not Aryan was a lesser person. I doubt those cosplayers really want to identify with the belief that their own race is ‘less than’. As someone already suggested, there were probably other uniform-wearing cosplayers at the place where those pictures were taken. I highly doubt it was a gathering of Asian nazis, or meant to honor Hitler in any way.

That being said, I do find people dressed in nazi uniforms irritating. My family is of English and Romanian descent (not Jewish), so I didn’t lose any relatives in a concentration camp (not due to their religion, anyway) and therefore have no right to be ‘offended’. But I can still see why some people would be, and the others on this board should understand that as well. Unlike a regular military costume, sporting a swastika has only one meaning, nazism. Silly thing, since the swastika is actually a backwards sun-cross, which is either an Egyptian or Pagan symbol, I disremember which.

Understanding goes both ways. If other people’s views and customs have to be allowed, in return people are allowed to disagree and not like said customs, which means that the people who are offended by those pictures are just as allowed to express it as those kids are allowed to wear the uniforms.

98

No, see. Someone said you were wrong, Maz said he agrees with said person (I’m not gonna go dig up the thread here) and Cless’ comment wasn’t a joke, but he wasn’t agreeing with you. I actually asked him what he meant, and he said he was impressed with your ability to not flip out when arguing with me (most people do, and you seem to be losing your edge at it hugely) even though you were indeed wrong.

As for the rest of your post, I’ll just repeat what I said before: You do a piss poor job of trying to analyze my thought patterns. Nine out of ten people here call me a narcissist at least once a week, and you tell me I have an inferiority complex, bravo. But seriously, Are you going to continue to cop out by insulting me and then accuse me of copping out by insulting you in an attempt to be wrong, a hypocrite, and make me forget that you’re not presenting any facts so that I won’t argue anymore? See, that’s the reason I can assert victory. Because your arguments are almost nonexistant.

Not that I’m complaining. I’m sick of arguing about your ignorant dillusions. From now on I’ll just paste links with correct information so that you can prove yourself wrong. Saves me the trouble of pretending there’s anyone left on this planet who’s open-minded enough to listen to reason -_-;;

99

Narcissist.

100

Ya know, if you pick to dress up as Freddy Krueger for halloween, you probably liked his movies.

So, in my mind, the only reason to dress us as a Nazi is if you’re a fan of holocaust.

I mean, why would you [take the time to] dress up as something you didn’t like?