Nazi Cosplay

The Core RPGC Main Forum
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Heaven forbid they put some effort into their costumes.

You say you dressed as a pumpkin and the Grim Reaper on ONE Halloween. You aren’t dressing up like that on a regular basis.

So, what if I did dress up as the Grim Reaper fairly regularly? Do I need to justify that for it to be okay with you? You invent the criteria by which it’s “okay” to dress up, and then expect people across the world to follow them.

Also, pumpkins never hurt anyone and the grim reaper is a work of fiction. Nazis hurt millions.

So did countless other types of soldiers that people dress up as (e.g. knights, Roman and Greek soldiers, Vikings). Is the fact that nazis hurt millions somehow more relevant? Where did you get the idea that that <i>mattered</i>, that dressing up as a nazi would be “bad”? Again, you invent ad hoc criteria for “bad” costumes, attempting to justify your presupposition that nazi costumes are “bad.” It’s really just an ideosyncrasy in your head.

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Cosplaying isn’t common in Japan. Where do you get the idea that Japan is some kind of happy cartoon anime-centric country where everyone wears cat ears? Is it becuase you’ve watched three Japanese shows and have been to two cosplay sites? The vast majority of them think it’s just as fucked up as we do.

And more often than not, anime/manga/games immitate real clothing, not the other way around. Putting a Kimono on doesn’t mean you’re cosplaying Kaoru from RK. It means you’re dressing the same way Japanese women have dressed for centuries.

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No argument there. You said “girls dressed as killers” can’t be compared to “girls in short skirts,” because “girls dressed as killers” <i>aren’t normal</i>. How do you determine that Japanese cosplaying nazis “aren’t normal” - when Americans regularly dress as terrorists and crusaders on Halloween? There’s nothing “abnormal” about these people.

That’s Halloween dude. Everyone gets retarded on Halloween. Do the Japanese even recognize Halloween? Because last time I checked cosplaying was for the fun and costume originality, not for going around and picking up candy. And I’m sure no civil person walks around on Halloween dressed up as Osama.

So, what about dressing up as a crusader? It seems pretty prejudiced, to dress up as a Christian knight sent out to kill Muslims. But whatever, just a knight costume, right? How about dressing up as a terrorist? That’s okay too, since it’d just be funny. There’s nothing intrinsically worse about nazis, so why not nazi costumes?

See, what the hell is a crusader? Does North America even recognize that as a defiant statement that it would such as a nazi? I’m not talking about which is worse, I’m saying people have a tendency to go “omg nazi!” than “omg islamic crusader!” and for that reason it’s not normal to don the nazi get up, here in North America at least. And I never knew dressing up as a terrorist could be funny…

No reason. It’s just become a part of the western ideology that nazism is taboo. You don’t even say the word “nazi” in Germany, it’s so taboo. That’s all there is to it, though - an unreasonable taboo that’s inconsistent other practices.

Well even so, it’s a bit disturbing to see vibrant young girls dressed up as the henchmen of world war 2.

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I’m surprised not any one of you called Xwing a fucking nazi yet. Shows some maturity I suppose, which is a good thing.

ON the subject of cosplaying Nazis. Ahem.

While some say that the act of cosplaying Nazis trivializes their actions in World War 2 (and before that, but let’s just call this period the World War 2 period for simplicity), others say that it’s just “harmless fun” and that people should be allowed to do it, am I correct?

Well, it’s not “harmless fun”, as many would be offended because of it, at least if you did it over here. Dress as an WW2 american bomber pilot in Japan, and I’m sure the reaction would be as shocking as Nazi Cosplayers over here.

I’m not going to get into the Neo-Nazis as this would demolish my argument right then and there :P.

If the person dressing as a Nazi does not embrace the ideology, well, they don’t, and that’s that. Even if they do wear the uniform and act like one. If they don’t go out of their way to promote the ideology, it shouldn’t really be a matter. HOWEVER, and I do mean HOWEVER, that person should be prepared to reap the consequences. If some anti-nazi extremist decides to punch the fuck out of you for doing that, well, don’t motherfucking complain. Laws don’t work in that sense, of course, but that’s the jist of it. If you dress as a Nazi, know who you will be offending just by doing this act.

However, by denying anything nazi-related, we tend to ignore what has been one of the darkest hours for humanity, and trivialize it more. Granted, cosplaying nazism is nothing to scoff at either, but I put it on the same level as someone acting as a nazi in a low-budget community film where all the budget has been blown on props and stuff like this, and the actors do their thing freely without pay.

It’s harmless unless it gets out of hand, in which case, the authorities will most likely pass a law against this sort of action, as Nazism was a firmly-oiled machine which took over Germany, CLEANLY (at least, compared to other revolutions, and granted, it was at the expense of a whole religion/people, but compared to the Bolchevik revolution, the Nazi rev was clean).

BTW : The reason why fascism will always be overthrown is because the lower-ranked citizens will not have an occasion to make it through the ranks as Xwing said, since the few and the powerful will go to extreme lengths to keep their rank. Many turn to fascism (such as France and Jean-Marie Le Pen) because they feel alienated in their own country, and think that without immigrants, they will be able to improve their situation. (which is often not the case)

The reason why communism will always be overthrown is because most people’s idea of self-actualization is being stronger than their others. Granted that communism, as it stands now, is completely against nature’s principles (as stated by the philosophists of the 1700s in France and other places), it can be reworked (same as fascism, really) in order to have self-actualization be a part of it.

Best community ever, as I’ve always said, is the Smurfs, and I’ve read the episode where they try to introduce money in their village, it doesn’t end well.

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“I personally think this talk of “alarming” nazi-ish trends is ridiculous. Unless someone has any evidence that Japanese cosplayers are seriously enamored of nazism, I see no reason for the slightest alarm; no more reason than when I see terrorists and crusaders walking down the street on Halloween.”

The evidence that they’re enamored with Nazism is that they’re wearing fucking Nazi costumes! Why else would they wear them? Because they think they look cool? If they wanted to dress up in some kind of power uniform, why not just wear a regular military costume? No, Nazi uniforms are such a specific symbol that if Japanese are dressing up as Nazis, it shows they are enamored with some part of the Nazi philosophy or with Hitler’s reign, be it the racial aspects or the fascist aspects or whatever. By your reasoning, if someone puts a swastika bumper sticker on their back windshield, it doesn’t mean they agreed with Hitler or the Nazis. It could just mean they thought it looked cool, right?

Cosplaying is fantasy - you’re putting yourself into a role. If you putting yourself into the role of a Nazi commandant, I think its safe to say one of the aspects of Hitler’s reign appeals to you. I personally don’t have a problem with people dressing up like Nazis. But I think it is troubling - because it shows that the Nazis are still attractive to these people.

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Do you regularly talk to people who have lived in Japan? According to what people who have lived there tell me, cosplaying is more common there than here. Moreover, the high concentration of Japanese cosplayers pictured on the internet suggests the same thing. This makes sense, considering how many of the characters people cosplay were created in Japan. Even the word “cosplay” screams Japanese abbreviation, along the same lines as “pokemon” and “terebi.”

Where do you get the idea that Japan is some kind of happy cartoon anime-centric country where everyone wears cat ears? Is it becuase you’ve watched three Japanese shows and have been to two cosplay sites?

I didn’t say any of that. You’re very eager, jumping to various conclusions about my “ideas” of Japan, so that you can correct me; but I don’t need to be corrected. Did you derive that I viewed Japan as “an anime-centric country where everyone wears cat ears,” just from my saying “cosplaying is common” there? Well, cosplaying is common in Japan, relative to here. As for the rest - it’s out of your mouth, not mine.

I sense that you’re still eager to prove me wrong, probably from our last argument.

The vast majority of them think it’s just as fucked up as we do.

So, you think there’s something wrong with people who cosplay? You think they’re “fucked up?” Well, okay - but I imagine you’re insulting at least a few people here.

And more often than not, anime/manga/games immitate real clothing, not the other way around. Putting a Kimono on doesn’t mean you’re cosplaying Kaoru from RK. It means you’re dressing the same way Japanese women have dressed for centuries.

Again, you’re eager to correct my perception of Japanese culture, when there’s no need for correction. I understand that kimonos are generally not an indication of cosplaying in Japan. Regardless, cosplaying is <i>still</i> more common there than here; and, as far as I can tell, the “vast majority” of Japanese people do not think cosplayers are “fucked up,” like you do.

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Admiral, are these people part of the Nazi party in Japan or are they just non-affiliated highschool kids? Ifthey are, then what some people have said here are right - they support , at least some, of the Nazi philosophy. If not, they could be just dressing up to get a reaction. I know there is an area in Japan where people dress up in outrageous costumes just for that reason.

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You’re essentially saying that <i>we</i> can create our own customs (Halloween), which permit us to act differently than normal; but Japanese people can’t, and should instead either follow our customs (“recognize Halloween”) or none. Why can’t they just cosplay evil people because they want to? Are you <i>that</i> eager to condemn them, when on Halloween we act the same way?

See, what the hell is a crusader?

I assume you’re familiar with the crusades. . .

Does North America even recognize that as a defiant statement that it would such as a nazi?

<i>No</i>, and that’s the point. If you were to dress up as a crusader in the Middle East, I’m fairly sure you’d be killed. Our taboo against dressing up as nazis is an <i>idiosyncrasy</i> - i.e., it’s a peculiarity of our thought process. It’s inconsistent with our other ideas of what costumes are “fit” - e.g., knife-wielding murderer costumes are okay, but not nazis. Your insistence that everyone follow our inconsistent taboos is naive and lacks justification.

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You’re essentially saying that we can create our own customs (Halloween), which permit us to act differently than normal; but Japanese people can’t, and should instead either follow our customs (“recognize Halloween”) or none.

Celebrating Halloween and dressing up as a nazi any time of the year are two different cases. I’m not saying they should follow our customs at all; my point was that as North Americans, we have a day set aside where dressing up a pyscho is fairly normal. Last time I checked, millions of pyschos did not go down in history as a terrible, traumatizing, world shaping event.

No, and that’s the point. If you were to dress up as a crusader in the Middle East, I’m fairly sure you’d be killed. Our taboo against dressing up as nazis is an idiosyncrasy - i.e., it’s a peculiarity of our thought process. It’s inconsistent with our other ideas of what costumes are “fit” - e.g., knife-wielding murderer costumes are okay, but not nazis. Your insistence that everyone follow our inconsistent taboos is naive and lacks justification.

I never said dressing up as a murderer is okay. I don’t even celebrate Halloween. I pointed out dressing up as a nazi is sick, because I am north american. You can fling around all the terminology you want, but I read about world war II and dressing up as a cute little girl in a nazi uniform isn’t very impressive. I don’t lack any kind of justification because all you’re doing is assuming that people can dress up as anything they want and <i>not</i> nazis. Anyone who just lacks the decency to think about what type of image they’re projecting is not okay in my book, even if they’re totally oblivious to that image.

Well, it’s not “harmless fun”, as many would be offended because of it, at least if you did it over here. Dress as an WW2 american bomber pilot in Japan, and I’m sure the reaction would be as shocking as Nazi Cosplayers over here.

With that being said, I’ll repeat what Igatona said. Yes, this may prove your theory about “taboo” but regardless of whatever side of the world we’re on, it’s still okay in asking people “Is this decent?”. I wouldn’t dress up as an american bomber pilot over there, and I wouldn’t parade around in a fucking world war II costume at all. It’s just bizarre and disrespectful to me to make a costume party out of it.

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Halloween was created by the Catholic Church to defuse the threat of Paganism by ridiculing practicing Pagans and their traditions. It was meant to slant their symbols of faith into sy,bols of evil. It worked.

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Halloween has a lot of meanings, not just that one.

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See, if Halloween can have different meanings to different people, why can’t Nazism? These cosplayers show that they do by dressing up as one. Even though we judge others by our standards, those standards only encompass our part of the world.

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I realize that, but dressing up as a nazi is a complicated issue. I don’t think it’s right to impersonate any sort of presence during the two world wars. It’s like getting entertainment out of a great world tragedy, and that’s quite sick to me, regardless of just <i>what</i> you’re dressing up as.

And yeah you can’t really compare Halloween with it’s many meanings to uh, nazism or whatever. Halloween didn’t commit mass genocide…

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Are you sure about that? The Catholic Church persecuted many Pagans because of their beliefs. IT wasn’t as systematic as what the Nazi’s did but there are very few Pagan reilgious groups today. Dressing up as a devil or witch means you’re getting entertainment from what they did.

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Like I said, you’ve been to two or three Japan based cosplay sites and suddenly start believing that sliced bread can’t find any work because cosplay is just so fucking sensational in Japan.

You really need to do some research and maybe visit Japan yourself so you can see with your own eyes that there isn’t a giant billboard with manga on it on every street corner.

You could also try to find some translated interviews with big-time anime gurus who have been to american conventions. It blows their mind, EVERY TIME, how much more americans obsess over what they would consider childrens’ cartoons than they do.

I’d like to “meet” these Japanese friends of yours. I’m guessing they live in america and don’t even know the language, and the only thing Japanese about them is their eyes.

So yes, your perception of Japan is indeed slightly skewed. and needs to be corrected. And by slightly, I mean the only thing you know about Japan is the name of their country and whatever childrens’ shows air on CN.

And as for being eager to prove you wrong from our last argument, I kinda already accomplished that when everyone agreed with me and called you a nutcase, really. But it’ll be okay. You’ll be right one of these days, maybe.

So, you think there’s something wrong with people who cosplay? You think they’re “fucked up?” Well, okay - but I imagine you’re insulting at least a few people here.
Yes and No. I think it’s fucked up, but I’d do it anyway.

Again, you’re eager to correct my perception of Japanese culture, when there’s no need for correction. I understand that kimonos are generally not an indication of cosplaying in Japan. Regardless, cosplaying is <i>still</i> more common there than here; and, as far as I can tell, the “vast majority” of Japanese people do not think cosplayers are “fucked up,” like you do.
Too bad “as far as you can tell” stops less than an inch in front of your face when Japan is thousands of kilometers away. You need to read a few down to earth books about Japan instead of deriving all your knowledge from american-made sites about cosplay and Japanese “friends” who I can’t even confirm exist, and are wrong about their own culture if they do.

And by the way, you do a piss poor job of trying to analyze my thought patterns. Please keep your posts to the facts instead of “You’re deriving all this from one sentence blah blah blah you’re trying to correct me even though my perception isn’t wrong because I’m me and I can’t be wrong blah blah blah.”

There are three people on the forums who you shouldn’t argue with about Japan. One is me, the other is Nagumo, and the third is Kagon. Do yourr researchhhh or go away.

Edit: Actually, I think I’ll add Kero to that list as well. But I’m not sure if he comes here.

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While most of the wester world is understandably disturbed by such cosplaying, it is different for them. Neither they, or their families, or anyone they knew suffered from the Nazis. So from their point of view, it is just another historical “bad guy” I have a feeling most of Asia would be more affected by Mao than westerners.

There have been many “evil” people and groups throughout history, but unless you can identify with the victims in some way, it is hard to develop any kind of real feelings against them. America did have the Cold War with Russia, but we never actually suffered from Stalin’s actions. However, Id bet people in the former Soviet nations would be disgusted if Americans started dressing up as old soviet soldiers.

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Um no, and you are quite mistaken about the very few pagan religious groups. They are small in number compared to say, Christians, but they are quite around. Just because they aren’t vocal doesn’t mean they’re an extremely tiny minority.

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You just made my day Steve >>;

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I’ll concede that.