Why is anime so popular? I know some people might argue that it has great animation and memorable characters. But some animes aren’t that good, and I haven’t even seen many compared to how many are out there. And, from what I’ve heard, anime was “in” a few years ago, but then people forgot about it. So why has it come back all of a sudden? Please tell me what you think. Thank you.
You’re looking at it the wrong way; anime isn’t so much a genre as it is an art form. When most people see anime they think because it’s animated then it must be just a cartoon, it’s a very typically western response since in or case most, if not all animated shows are in fact cartoons. It’s hard to give a good comparison since there are very few examples of genre vs. art form in popular western culture, but picture it this way, black and white vs. color cinema. Both are ways of telling a story, any story really, you can tell the same story in color as you can tell in black and white, the core of it doesn’t change, only the other appearance of it. Anime is like that, you have the same stories that you’d have in a normal TV show with live actors, the core is the same, but the execution is different, instead of real actors you have imaginary ones. Many people have trouble making that distinction; they can’t look beyond the appearance of anime and fail to see the depth that exists beneath.
As for the current popularity of anime it’s hard to say really, many young North Americans are first exposed to anime when they see it on TV, far more people are likely to see their first real anime on cartoon network, fox, teletoon, or YTV than they are of going outline and downloading it. It’s just they way things are. So that being said the real deciding factor is which shows the network plays, and figuring that one out is confusing at best, baffling at worst. I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember when fox played Escaflowne for a while, it was a great show with giant medieval humanoid robots with swords (and a very cute fair of catgirl), but for some reason fox cancelled it after only about 8 episodes and replaced it with “The Ripping Friends.” Why they did that is beyond me, but it’s been my experience that actually good series tend not to stay on the air very long. So while the actual series that might help to build a real fan base are cancelled and quickly forgotten you have every network pumping young viewers full of Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon, Inu Yasha, Dragon Ball z, Shaman King (Damn them for subbing it and taking out Megumi’s voice and changing the opening and ending theme.) While none of these series are in fact terrible (except for Pokemon), none of them are really that great. The characters cheat constantly in Yu-gi-oh, Inu Yasha goes on for about 80 episodes too long, Dragon Ball Z goes on for about 250 episodes too long, and Shaman King was deprived of all signs of Megumi Hayashibara.
So while these series might appeal to the younger viewers they aren’t exactly a big hit with the older viewers, you know those of us who actually go out and buy the damn DVDs. Sure ever now and then they toss a bone to the older viewers, Cartoon Network played Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw star a while back, but for the most part anime on TV for those over the age of 12 is pretty much a wasteland unless you just don’t have anything better to do and watching sub-par to average series kills time. That works doubly against us, first it deprives the younger viewers of a chance to move on to something else when they outgrow Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh, there just isn’t anything else they can easily see, so either they stop watching it and forget about it for a while, or they simply decide that this is all there is to anime and just give up on it completely. At the same time you have the older viewers, the long time converts, who have long since outgrown just about anything you can find on TV and who really have no place to go but online for their anime fix. This sort of has the effect of turning the North American anime culture it a sort of underground culture, when some people are embarrassed to tell their non-anime-loving friends about it because they’re afraid of look childish when their friends think they spend all their time watching cartoons.
So if the current trend continues you’re going to have a fairly steady pool of young viewers who watch the more simplistic anime, but fail to really appreciate it, but unless networks start playing series intended for older viewers it’s never really going to break into popular culture.
Of course at the same time there’s the fact that there is a serious cultural difference between east and west, what seems appropriate in one place just doesn’t work in the other. Give you an example, one series I’d be really impressed to see on one of the large networks (playing before midnight) would be Noir. The ironic thing is that it would very easily get by the censors, there’s only one scene in the entire series with any blood, and even then it doesn’t look real, there’s no swearing, and there’s at most 2 scenes with any fanservice in the entire series. What’s the problem, well after making a very quick review I counted about 14 murders in the first 4 episodes alone (they’re assassins, what do you expect), and then there’s the real killer, there’s a very strong implicit suggestions that all 3 of the main female characters are gay. It’s never clearly stated (well except for Chloe at the end), but any one paying any attention to the series has got to notice it. Somehow given the current cultural perception of anime I find it hard to believe that you’d see something like on American TV (Canadian, maybe…). Still, maybe I’m wrong about this, but if they start playing series Noir at a time when older (not necessarily 18+) viewers can watch it I’m not going to hold my breath on the prospect for a real break into the mainstream of the anime culture.
So in the mean time I’m going to stick to my fansubs and occasional DVD box sets and curse Pioneer for charging $42 CND for a 3 episode DVD on Vandread…
Originally posted by Pappy’s daughter
But some animes aren’t that good
You mean just like there are some cartoons that aren’t good? Or how some TV shows aren’t good?
Anime is anime. Sounds are bound to be not good and to your taste.
Anime generally has a disturbing factor attached to it that makes the situations within the particular show realistic and acceptable, whereas in real life they’d be impossible or maybe even quite gross. Take Setuna’s incestuous relationship with his sister from Angel Sanctuary. Take Usagi and her Sailor Scout friends from Sailor Moon, saving Tokyo, and the world from aliens, and most of them aren’t even over 5’4. Take Ghost in the Shell, and…well I wont even go there, because that movie is just loaded with X Factor.
Now not all anime is disturbing and sinister, obviously there are quite a few “normal” ones, but some situations are still ridiculous and comical to the point where it would just be plain silly to see it happen off the tv screen.
Most anime falls under these two categories (but not all). I don’t think the hype has a lot to do with “memorable characters” and “animation” because a video game could have that, a North American tv show could have that. You’re not looking deep enough. And as DS pointed out, yeah most kids see their first anime on NA tv, as I did, and they don’t know any better. Sometimes the only animation on at the time consists of Yu Gi Oh Beyblade Pokemon Medabots Card Capters (sp?). Shows dummied down for little kids. They’re just exposed to it and get used to it.
Well, I can’t see why it’s poular in USA (apart from the fact that many animes rock).
i’d like to ask the question backwards, why it is NOT popular? And now I’m talking about Denmark, it IS appearing, but that’s just now, and it isn’t that popular, mostly because that many thinks that all cartoons are for kids. Well they’re wrong.
Originally posted by Kain
Well, I can’t see why it’s poular in USA (apart from the fact that many animes rock).
i’d like to ask the question backwards, why it is NOT popular? And now I’m talking about Denmark, it IS appearing, but that’s just now, and it isn’t that popular, mostly because that many thinks that all cartoons are for kids. Well they’re wrong.
Same in Germany. Anime fans are a minority. Only few animes like dragonball and pokémon are famous.
There are two kinds of people: The ones who think anime is just for kids and others that thinks anime is just porn like “Gloria” or “kite”…
I have had to good fortune to see the huge impact that it has in Japan. Over there Anime is eaten up like candy. I personally enjoy various anime, series. I recently just viewed Initial D in its entirety and was amazed. Sorry cough lost track. I will point out that anime, like most things from the Asian cultures is transferring over to the U.S. If you look back you will notice that from Kung Fu movies on, Americans have and “oriental” fever. I am not stating anything but the obvious here. Asian movies, literature, games, and lifestyles have slowly transferred over to western society, and visa versa. You will see our obsession for fashions, cars, tall buildings, and fast lives have hit them also. All it is is two powerful cultures merging to become one über lifestyle. Our “popular” attributes are transferring over. Granted I love me some great anime, and I am thankful for the opportunity to view them, but all in all we are just following the trend from another culture. Hell, Search for “ninja” or “samurai” on the net. Also if you don’t think we are merging in styles look at the new MoH game. You kill (excuse the slur) Japs. THE GAME IS HUGE OVER THERE. To end this inane rambling. It is popular here not just for the fact that the animation is elegant or the stories are excellent but partly because it is cool elsewhere. I am not slamming anyone, but it is the simple truth…Please don’t flame me.
IKE
It isn’t. You’re just given the impression that it is because of all the attention it’s given.
The vast majority of people don’t even know what it is. And then there’s a fairly large group we wish didn’t exist that thinks it is cartoon porn.
It isn’t what? Popular? Then why are Fox and cartoon net amongst other networks picking it up. It’s huge with youngsters (I can’t believe I just called them that) I refer back to Yu-Gi-Oh (how ever it is said) and Pokemon. This generation that loves the cartoons and card games will eventualy grow up into older anime. You have a hard time finding children, or any one for that matter, who hacn’t heard of Pokemon. While I hate the “P” word, it has become a standard for anime to all of the “ignorant” folks. So anime is popular. Maybe not the anime we want to be, but it is none the less. And face it, anyone who doesn’t know what real anime is, associates it to the “P” word, DBZ, and Yu-Gi-Oh. I asked people to verify this fact. I work with air line passengers all day. I tell them I am trying to win a bet and ask them if they consider “P” as anime. The Pax say yes for the most part. I do have to agree on the fact about Hetai though. If they know there is other shows then the afore mentioned ones, they think the movies are porn for the most part. It is a sad day when I have to defend Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh as “Americanized” anime.
To the parents and relatives of those children, who buy the cards Anime is Anime. End of story.
Also, if it given all of that “attention” it is still recognized. Publicity is publicity.
I can’t believe I just argued Pokemon as Anime…sigh
The Armageddon is upon us.
Originally posted by mordrath
I can’t believe I just argued Pokemon as Anime…sigh
The Armageddon is upon us.
And why isn’t pokemon anime? anyway…
I think that there may be a point in the difference between popular and commercialised (whatever).
Same in Germany. Anime fans are a minority. Only few animes like dragonball and pokémon are famous.
Heh, funny, cause when we danish animefans look at germany we get the impression that it’s really popular… But hey, that’s a relative thing I guess.
I don’t think it’s that popular, actually. I only think it’s popular among those who know it exists.
Over in the UK (or at least, where I live in it) anime just isn’t that well known, or when it is it’s like everyone said; associated with Pokemon, Digimon, Yi-Gi-Oh etc. What I’ve found it that a lot of my friends do enjoy it (I gave VCDs of the entire Hellsing series to one of them for his birthday), but they’ve never seen any. It isn’t that they don’t like it, it’s just that it would just never occur for them to watch it. It’s not popular because it’s unknown.
What seems to be happening now though is that networks in the west are only picking up shows that are more than actual shows. Pokemon, Digimon and YGO aren’t just series, they’re entire lines of merchandise that bring in millions for the companies that buy them. Compare that to something like Cowboy Bebop or Trigun, to name two of the best ‘real’ anime series, and there is far less money in buying the rights to it. The next thing to come here (at least in the UK, I don’t know how far it’s gone in the US) is the .hack series. It has a row of sellable things behind it (and I don’t mean just action figures you can only get in certain small shops) which makes it a better proposition than buying something like Evangelion or Full Metal Alchemist.
On the original argument that it IS popular however, I think one of the things that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the AniMatrix. Even though it only had a few really good scenes, a lot of people bought it, just because it was part of the Matrix Phenomenon at the time, and that’s a lotta people. I think if the makers had seen to stick some trailers for things like Trigun, Hellsing, Evangelion et al on it as well, it would be even more popular than you think it is now.
I have to apologize for that. I personally don’t like Pokemon, as you probably can tell, but it is anime. I just don’t like to consider it as such. It groups me with people who don’t watch it for the same reason I do. I enjoy the art work and story lines. I watch to get away and learn. I don’t care about a few kids winning the poke ball of justice or some such. Like wise I don’t refer to Hentai as anime. It is just smut to me and while people obviously enjoy those (because the market is huge for them) I personally don’t, it is all a matter of preference.
P.S. I also think it is a bit childish, I picture anime with a more serious undertone. But again it is all how you perceive it.
P.P.S. Good Point on the merchandise franchises Pierson.
Hmm, Pokemon, I remember when I used to watch that. I didn’t call it anime back then. I didn’t even know about anime! But, yeah, Pokemon is stupid. It refuses to die, just like Scooby Doo.
The only anime I’ve seen is what they show on TV, although I have been thinking about buying a DVD of an anime I haven’t seen yet. You know, expand my horizons.
Thanks for all the help! I didn’t think I’d get so many replies so soon!
The fact that people are afraid to waste 20-30 dollars on a DVD of anime they aren’t sure they will like or not doesn’t help, renting usually isn’t viable, and most of those people don’t download it so they have no idea what they’re getting into. Even other people recommending stuff doesn’t to any good for the most part, everyone doesn’t have the same tastes.
Originally posted by Pierson
I think one of the things that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the AniMatrix.
Oh GOD don’t get me started on how shitty the Animatrix was. Don’t even call it Anime or you’re not my friend anymore. It’s worse than american cartoons. (The fight between the long white haired girl and the other guy with Heavy Metal-ish animation was kinda cool though. Speaking of Heavy Metal, it’s also horrid(The movie title, not the music genre))
I don’t think the hype has a lot to do with “memorable characters” and “animation” because a video game could have that, a North American tv show could have that.
I dunno, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a N. American show with that. I can immedately exclude all sit-coms, dramas, and soap operas. And honestly, there’s not much left after that. Star Trek, that’s about it.
So while these series might appeal to the younger viewers they aren’t exactly a big hit with the older viewers, you know those of us who actually go out and buy the damn DVDs.
Said the man who distributes dozens of licensed animes on his fserve. Not trying to insult you or anything, but I’d just like to point out the irony. And I really don’t agree with online anime distribution, even “unlicensed” stuff, which IMO is just a lame excuse people use to justify their actions. (Theft is Theft. Laws are laws. It’s illegal and damages the industry.)
Many people have trouble making that distinction; they can’t look beyond the appearance of anime and fail to see the depth that exists beneath.
I’d have to disagree. Take Spirited Away, for example. It’s won half a dozen ‘Best Movie’ awards, and the people who distribute those aren’t 10 year old children.
I think the real problem is that we actually really don’t get very good anime aired here, and North Americans really have the right to say that Anime, by their definition, sucks. It’s the Networks’ fault for feeding them crap like Yugioh and Pokemon, and even good anime which have been dumbed down and shittified to match the calibur of those shows when they should really be so much better, like Saint Seiya, aka “Knights of the Zodiac.”
I’m REALLY hoping no NA TV Network gets their hands on NGE. I’d cry for weeks at what I knew was going to be inevitably done with it.
Give you an example, one series I’d be really impressed to see on one of the large networks (playing before midnight) would be Noir.
Why? The first half of the series is formula episodes, and the second half sucks all the same. The dialogue could be changed (like every other anime) to be suited for the 12 year old supercoolbangbangaction kiddies who’d watch it. Shallow plot, grauitous killing, hot female heroes who look like 14 year old children, It’s really the perfect candidate for an American-aired anime.
Anime in Japan is a way of life and has been part of normal television for years. Anime not only appeals to young japanese kids, but also to a wide range of older japanese people. Anime in Japan is like the new cartoons and comedy shows we get in North America. I once saw a statistic which stated that 75% of Japanese programs were anime series and that at least half of the population would, every week, come back to see their favorite series whether you were 12 or 36. So since in North America Anime is fairly new, it doesn’t have the same impact that it has on people as it does on the Japanese public. North Americans will say: “Those shows are for kids and adults wouldn’t concern themselves with these.” While Japanese people have a totally different view opinion for anime: “Anime? When’s the next series coming out, maybe me and my family will be able to watch it together.” Why would they say such a thing, because to them it’s their normal tv programming. It’s been that way for the past 30 years or even more. We’d probably say the same thing about our local shows if we weren’t familiar with anime… Anyways, two entirely different things =)
Oh and Hades, what you say about Noir proves to me that you haven’t understood the series at all… Yes it might have been based on an american stereotype aspect but, there is much more than just killing, women looking young and a shallow plot. But i’m not removing your opinion, everybody is entitled to an opinion. Yours is perfectly legitimate.
Heh. You sound like you’re saying that more to convince yourself than to convince me.
And there’s not much to understand about Noir. It’s not that I haven’t looked deeply into it, it’s that there’s really nothing profound about it. Compared to the depth of most other anime, it barely scratches the surface. (Which is why it annoys me when people call it a “mindfucking” anime like Eva. It’s just NOT whatsoever.)
DS pretty much said it all except this:
Anime in Japan is like the Simpsons in the US. Almost everyone here LOVES the simpsons, if they don’t, they love either Futurama or Family Guy, or something close to all of those.
The question isn’t really why anime is popular, but whether this popularity will lead to anything, and if you ask me it won’t. While series like Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh are very popular with younger viewers they don’t really have an appeal that goes beyond that. I don’t think there are that many anime fans who can really say that what got them really into anime was watching Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, and Yu-gi-oh. Even Gundam Wing and Sailor Moon didn’t have that much of an impact when they aired, not only because they were sanitized to the point of absurdity, but also because they were both one of the few anime series playing at their time. Then there’s the fact that Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh and even Hack Sign to some degree aren’t just anime series, they’re brands and the series also happens to be a few to boost interest in the product and at the same time sales.
[QUOTE]
So while these series might appeal to the younger viewers they aren’t exactly a big hit with the older viewers, you know those of us who actually go out and buy the damn DVDs.
Said the man who distributes dozens of licensed animes on his fserve. Not trying to insult you or anything, but I’d just like to point out the irony. And I really don’t agree with online anime distribution, even “unlicensed” stuff, which IMO is just a lame excuse people use to justify their actions. (Theft is Theft. Laws are laws. It’s illegal and damages the industry.)
[/QUOTE]
That’s exactly my point, because of the way the big networks seem to be ignoring a very real and very growing older anime loving target audience many fans have to go online to find what they’re looking for. Then they’re the DVD issue, the main problem with DVDs is the sometimes prohibitive price, while you can sometimes get a good deal if you wait, say $90 for a box set, other times the price is so absurd that you think to yourself that there’s no way in hell, Vandread DVD 3 & 4, 6 episodes total, $50 each. While I’ll admit that most companies that release anime DVDs aren’t as bad as Pioneer, it’s still prohibitively expensive. So while fans of the series might be willing to pay that much for a series they know and love, I don’t know many people who would pick up an random series that they’ve never seen before, but that looks good at that price; or at least they won’t after they get screwed over with crap once or twice.
That’s the problem, for older viewers who can’t find what they want on TV and don’t want to fork over $100 to upwards of $1000 (Inu Yasha) for a series that may or may not be good there aren’t really that many options. Drak, Qpz4, Zero, and I go to an anime club every Friday night, that’s one way to try new series, but then again they can’t legally play DVDs so they have to show fansubs and thus again we fall back on the Internet being one of the only sources for most people. Then again there’s always the possibility of renting a series, but of course most video rental stores don’t carry that much anime and after you’ve rented Eva (maybe they have it, but then again I think it’s really over rated) and maybe Ninja scroll you’ve basically seen everything half decent they might have. There are also dedicated anime rental stores, but those seem to be few and far between, so you might not even have access to one.
So while it might seem that anime is enjoying a surge in popularity like never before you have to ask yourself, what does it really matter, if younger viewers wet their appetites on Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh then go looking for more only to realize there’s nothing there.
As for Noir you’ve totally missed the point I was trying to make, what I’m saying is that there really isn’t anything for the censors to cut. The series is very violent, but there’s no blood, no gore, no dead bodies flying, considering the amount of violence it’s displayed in a very tame way. The same goes for the dialog, with the exception of one scene at the end of the series they never say that the main characters are gay; you have to read between the lines, so there’s no single thing you could do about that since it’s as much part of the background and it is about the dialog. In the case of Noir the cultural divide just can’t be patched over like they tired to do with Sailor Moon, that’s why I’d be very surprised to see it aired on American TV at a time where many 17- viewers would be able to watch it.
Then again there’s always the possibility of renting a series, but of course most video rental stores don’t carry that much anime and after you’ve rented Eva (maybe they have it, but then again I think it’s really over rated) and maybe Ninja scroll you’ve basically seen everything half decent they might have.
Regrettably, that’s the truest thing that’s been said in this entire thread.
And I really didn’t even like Ninja Scroll either. It would’ve been great, but I think there’s a few scenes it really could have done without.
Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the rest of what you said I can completely agree on. Especially the thing about certain series being upwards of $1000. I did the math for kenshin once and it was well over $900. And I’m not even sure if I included every episode in that. And that’s without the 15% sales tax in ontario.