The Inafune self-plagiarization continues....

Goddamn, they’re not even trying to not make this look like MML3. Can’t they at least finish the MN9 anime first before running off to start new projects? :suckah:

This is another reason why I’m leery about the direction Mighty No. 9 and related properties are headed. Inafune seems to have gone crazy these past few years. Show some goddamn restraint.

Why not do something like this? Honestly, I don’t know if either of you are artists, but if the proudest creations of my life were prohibited for me to use for any reason - like say, being intellectual property of the company I made them for but resigned from because I was unhappy - I would absolutely do anything I could to continue making them, even if it means turning “Elfmo’s Adventure” into “Dwarfmo’s Adventure” or Mega Man into Totally-Not-Megaman, etc. When you connect with your creations on a deep emotional level (you would) and they are inaccessible to you, what the fuck else would you do?

Complete and release the game you’re currently working on first.

Seriously, Mighty No. 9 isn’t even out and bloat and feature creep has been cropping up over the two Kickstarter campaigns for it, with stuff like an anime series being pitched and now a Legends knock off being teased and its all for something that still hasn’t left the oven. At this point, he just needs to announce a new not-ZX game (and I guess something for MMUniverse too, though that ship has more or less sailed) and he’ll have basically reestablished the Megaman franchise as an off-brand Megaman franchise (with hookers; and blackjack) at pretty much the point where he was let off from.

You’re assuming that you know more about game development and what Keiji Inafune can do with his available assets than Keiji Inafune.

I’m not saying I know anything amounting to jack or squat about game development. What I am saying though is that I want to know what I’m actually supporting here. I’d gladly throw money at a MML game even if its an off-brand one. But first, I want to know what I’m getting into here. Whether these games are offering me something worth my time and money or if I’m letting my Nostalgia-Goggles get the better of me is something I can only really know when I’m playing said games and getting the sense of them for myself. I can’t do that if nothing’s been released yet.

Especially since this is basically not-MML3 (like seriously :hahaha;) and I’ve already gotten my hopes up only to have them dashed quite expertly once before with actual MML3. So can you blame me for being at least a little skeptical?

I still don’t see what you’re saying here. If you want to know what you’re supporting, look at the games on Inafune’s rap sheet. He’s clearly trying to make those types of games. If you liked them before, you’ll probably like them now. If you used to like them but got tired of them once upon a time, you’ll probably find them to be tiresome.

Also, I’m not even sure why MML3 is being brought up, here, in regards to your being skeptical - MML3 was canceled because Capcom decided it wouldn’t be lucrative. So, it’s not as if your skepticism could even stem from the same source; it looks like Inafune is going to make it anyways. Unless you, for some reason, think games that are “like MML” just magically get canceled, there’s no correlation between MML3 getting canceled and the plausibility of Red Ash being produced.

This is proof that Red Ash was announced too early, and I also don’t like the fact that money promised for a specific purpose - the game’s development - is now being allocated elsewhere. The stretch goals haven’t even been announced yet. The lack of disclosure and transparency is getting more and more worrying, even if I’m happy the game itself is a go and I hope it turns out to be good, as I always do.

As for MN9’s bad PR not impacting the game itself, that may be true, but Sin said it best. The whole point to Kickstarter is PR and grassroots. It’s fine with Mighty No. 9 already having money, but what about the future? Specifically, what about Red Ash? The lack of enthusiasm is speaking for itself.

The games we’re seeing funded and that have the best chance to get made are things like Shenmue 3, Koji Igarashi’s new metroidvania game and MM9 because they have outside funding. As Igarashi said, the kickstarter money is only a fraction of the cost of the game. The games we’re not seeing made are unsung story and project phoenix who tried to make a game with the money that they raised. The reality is that making the games that people will want to buy costs a lot more than what is being kickstarted, making kickstarter not so much an effective fundraising mechanism as a piece of unnaccountable pr.

The only thing that kickstarter has taught us about video games as a business is the bs that ea and atvi have to deal with. They may be complete assholes disconnected from their products but they have to deal daily with studios run by people who can’t manage their projects and do accounting.

It’s also worth noting that that particular article is not written very objectively. Chris Carter was the editor-in-chief at GamerLimit when I wrote for them, and although I really like Chris and he’s a stand-up guy, he had a tendency of homogenizing reviews and trying to make them objective while reporting news that’s frothing with personal input and opinion, where it should honestly be the opposite. When news is read like that, it paints the opinion of the readers, as well.

This may veer into an opinion piece (I know Chris too) but the message is still just as relevant. Jason Schreier had his own take on Red Ash: He bring up excellent points like the fact that this was launched simultaneously alongside an anime, the fact that it’s a prologue and you have to pay $80 to get access to the full game, the fact that initially we didn’t know what console version the game was getting initially. Kickstarter itself said that while this wasn’t a violation of terms of service, changing the money to stretch goal money goes against the spirit that projects need to be honestly and clearly represented.

For what it’s worth, I also agree that the footage of Mighty No. 9 is underwhelming.

Part of the problem I think stems from how Inafune now probably wears a lot more hats with the different businesses he runs, the projects he wants to make (MN9/RA, etc) and that he needs to get funding for these. It is unsurprising that MN9 is underwhelming because he’s not as involved in the development of his products as I would have expected him to be just running his studio at Capcom. And there it is

At this point, I don’t really care what shape the KS is in, because like hell am I going to track down a PS4/Xbone just to play this. Still, I just find it immensely ironic that this is now essentially a MML Chinese Knock-Off.

I blade radfems and SJWs. Where is the tumblr outrage?:?!?!44 :chupon::chupon::chupon::crab:

So Inafune is crowdfunding more money for his Red Ash anime even though it met its goal.

Okay. On its own, this isn’t terrible. It’s common to keep crowdfunding open once a Kickstarter campaign has concluded. That’s how Torment Tides of Numenera raised nearly $5 million and why Chris Roberts is now sitting on top of a mountain of money for Star Citizen. Plus the Red Ash anime did say that the $150,000 would be used to just fund 12 minutes, with stretch goals being allocated to more time. So I get it.

That said, doing this so quickly immediately after the total disaster that was the TWO Red Ash Kickstarters AND the Mighty No. 9 delay just makes this look shady and sleazy, even if it isn’t shady and sleazy.

SG, you told me that creators will do anything to be able to continue making their projects when they’ve connected with them on an emotional level. That’s awesome, but when you start trading on nothing but nostalgia and promises, bait and switching backers, being vague and noncommittal and waiting until after a new campaign has concluded to announce a delay of your nearly completed project, you lose the right to wave that defense around. Inafune has basically presented a checklist of how not to do Kickstarter. This is behavior I’d expect from a rookie indie developer, not someone as established as Infune. What’s more, like Schafer and Molyneux, this kind of behavior stains the reputation of Kickstarter makes it harder for games like FTL or Banner Saga to get money. They’re the ones who need it. Inafune certainly didn’t need it, considering the publishing deal with Fuze. Keep in mind that publishing deals aren’t ten minute conversations so it’s likely this was in place before the Kickstarter campaign was even announced.

I wouldn’t call it a total checklist of what not to do during a Kickstarter since he hasn’t asked for a million dollars to localize an already reiterated upon low tier dungeon crawler and only release it as a limited collector’s edition for the select few who spent money at some fairly substantive backer tier yet. But its getting there.

(And some people STILL haven’t gotten over Working Designs going under…)

Fake Edit: (I’m still amused by the fact that Mighty Gunvolt’s Vita port is titled Gal Gunvolt as Gal Gun is apparently less toxic of an IP than MN9; that or Inticreates wants to push their games that are actually out and playable to the general public and because it highlights the two best playable characters in that game.)

Lol, I didn’t realize my defense was a priveledge that could be taken away, but okay. But yes, Inafune’s recent actions are pretty stupid. Nonetheless, I still understand why he would to get the jump on Not-MML, and I stand by what I said. You don’t need to “finish your current project” before starting a new one - if you have the manpower to work on multiple games (and he always has - people don’t seem to realize that Comcept has a longer rap sheet than MN9 and Red Ash), then there’s no problem announcing that you’re working on multiple games.

Here’s some food for thought: Ultimately, as excited as I am for Mighty No. 9, the backers have ALWAYS been endorsing a game designer that has little experience on the business end, whom EVERYONE was backing due to nostalgia. (To be clear, I have not donated any money to Comcept’s crowdfunding projects.) Let’s be real, how many people do you think would have backed Mighty No. 9 if it looked or played nothing like Mega Man, but was just “another game that Keiji Inafune wanted to make”?

Let’s face it: everyone donating their money on Kickstarter are grown-ass adults. If a person with any fame whatsoever is trying to crowdfund their project, you can look them up. Keiji Inafune’s only remotely business-like experience at Capcom was being “Global Head of Production” for six months, and all that really means is that he supervised some overseas projects. Anyone backing an old-school Tim Schafer game is probably still up-to-date with gaming news, so there’s no way they can’t know that Tim Schafer is not above doing weird, shady shit (e.g Brutal Legend’s day one “surprise, it was an RTS the whole time”) move. And Peter Molyneux? Not delivering on promises? HOWELIE FUCK-CKING SCHITT stop the goddamn presses, because this has never_ever_ever_happened_before. It’s up to the backers to not treat crowdfunding as if they’re impulse-buying a bag of chips while in line at the convenience store. It’s a lot of fucking money to throw away with no research, and highlighting your development cred while doing nothing to establish credibility on the business end of your project is just a slick move on their part. …A shitty move, but clever still.

I think what’s ultimately going to happen is, this kind of shit is going to reach a boiling point, and Kickstarter (and other sites) will add stricter guidelines on transparency between developer and backer. …OR! People will start researching the developers - particularly the well-known ones - on their actual expertise in business-related affairs instead of seeing a new “Look at this Not-Mega Man game” Kickstarter, jizz in their pants like nine times, then chug a Gatorade to rehydrate themselves before donating their life savings without a second thought.

Probably the first one. But, I can dream.

I should have said that INAFUNE waives the right to use that defense. :stuck_out_tongue: Although I imagine 984 IS the type to revoke defenses. That’s like…his job. As a lawyer. Doing lawyer stuff. :smiley:

But anyway. No, I don’t think people should have to finish their current project before Kickstarting a new one. Brian Fargo did that with Wasteland 2 and Torment Tides of Numenera and people have no problem catapulting money his way. The issue was - as I said before - all of the bad press surrounding Mighty No. 9 contributed to it. Plus, Fargo at least provided very clear, concise reasons for why he was running multiple Kickstarters. To date Comcept and Inafune really haven’t insofar as I’ve read, other than saying it wouldn’t impact development of MN9. Comcept and Inafune have done nothing even remotely transparent during this ordeal. A Polygon writer actually told me on Twitter that Deep Silver conveniently didn’t “see” his E-mails until after the Red Ash campaign was over and MN9 had been delayed.

I will concede your point that Schafer, Molyneux and Inafune have track records that speak for themselves, but I think John Walker said it best on why his interview with Molyneux was so brutal. When you’re actively taking faith-based money from your fans rather than a publisher, the stakes completely change from when you’re working with a publisher. There’s no customer investment - other than preorders - until they actually buy the game, and now with Steam refunds returns are much easier if you’re on PC. Though my real worry, like I said, is the chilling effect that this will have on Kickstarter itself. What if the next FTL or Banner Saga from talented newly indie devs doesn’t get funded because enough people were alienated due to crowdfunding campaigns by developers who are much more capable of raising money elsewhere?

Lastly, I do want to say that what made Red Ash particularly arrogant was the sense that nothing was being offered but nostalgia. It wasn’t until later that a thoroughly mediocre alpha build of gameplay was made available. Yooka Laylee didn’t get this negatively because they had tons of assets, music and gameplay footage to show off.

The problem is that technically, the stakes don’t change. The only difference is that the producers are, in effect, the backers. Except that the designers don’t have to answer to them. It’s really important to make sure you can trust the designers to have a good business sense, first, or to have a lot to show for it (just like Yooka Laylee did). Video game/board game Designer David Sirlin mentioned this exact problem with Kickstarter on a blog post he did about the comparisons between Kickstarter and Patreon:

“Kickstarter is […] a place to do an enormous amount of work in a short time and mostly deal with hassles like shipping. Also, you shouldn’t be “trying out a new idea” there. You should be showing something you thought every detail of through, completely visualized, and hopefully already made most of. Anything less than that, and it’s going to be hard to get people interested because you don’t have enough to show AND it’s a bad idea anyway because you have to commit to a specific release date which you wouldn’t be able to estimate unless you had things mostly figured out already.”

When a pretty big deal like Inafune or Molyneux shows up like “Yo dawgz. I wanna make a game, with your money”, they can bypass exactly what Sirlin is talking about - the fact that you have to have your idea pretty much ready to go, and that it’s difficult to try radical ideas there (at least, in the context of gaming).

Either the buyers are going to figure it out (and that could wind up ugly; just like you said, it could make people reluctant to back many projects), or Kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites will change their policy if it affects their business too greatly.