I’m sick of ffviii bashing, so I’ve decided to do something I should have done a long time ago: answer back.
Go ahead and tell me something about 8 you didn’t like, it doesn’t have to be intelligent, just go ahead.
(I’m in the mood for a fight)
How about no, since Cid doesn’t endorse that type of…nonsense in the forum. Well i’m just guessing anyways, I don’t mean to speak for him, but to start a topic just to raise tempers is silly. We don’t care about what you have to say about FF8 anyways- if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Critisism, it makes the world go around.
On another note, yes FF8 seems to be not looked upon as FF’s like 6 and 7, but other FF’s have received the same treatment. Some people just didn’t adapt well to what FF8 had to offer, and well, that’s their choice. If they want to bash, they’ll bash :\
FFVIII was the worst game evar! Come on, a sword that shoots? How stupid is that? And what kind of name is Squall? Were his parents drunk when they named him? Geez! And Rinoa’s dog fights for her? That’s not cool. Like, Yojimbo is cool, with his big hat, and his killer dog…
Seriously now, you really don’t need to start something like this. The vast majority of us here are intelligent people, and those who aren’t tend to get bored and leave. Besides, confronting everyone by yourself is a good way to create lots of enemies quickly, and that’s not something any of us want, is it?
I’m not looking to get people angry. What I want to do here is debate a topic that I’m deeply interested in. I’m hoping to open an intelligent dialog about my favorite game, a game that doesn’t get much good press.
If we’re not here to talk about opinions…what exactly is a message board?
p.s. probably shouldn’t have put that part about it not being intelligent, I forgot people tend to take this stuff seriously. My Bad wink
Yes indeed. Thank you for clarrifying further. However, now you’re asking us to discuss and debate. Before you suggested that you wanted us to name things we didn’t like about FF8, and then you would counter these comments by a statement that should somehow prove us wrong over why we should even bring up those comments in the first place.
Discuss yes, but, if you’re looking just to one on one someone’s opinion well, you can’t really change the fact whether someone likes FF8 or not, that way.
I’ll name what I started in the petition thread- not enough character development, and what little of that, was horribly cliched. Since you seem to require no evidence or fact to back my arguement up, feel free to respond to what I have just said.
(sorry again about the confusion, I tend to go with what sounds funny, even if it sounds aggresive)
Uh, anyway, about your comment, Evangelion; ffviii was nothing but character developement. I’m going to guarantee you, sooner or later in this thread, I will say things that are opinionated, but this one is almost pure fact. In fact, that seems to be most people’s problem with this game; that there’s not much other than character development.
Anyway, about the cliche. I’m curious to hear what you mean by that before I go on…
Sure thing.
Well, as I stated before, the only interesting character development I saw, happened in Squall, Irvine and Laguna.
The others, I didn’t much care for. I loved FF8, I loved the characters, but I feel they could have been taken beyond the 2D extent the the three above were. Zell was always goofy, Selphie was always tee-hee, Rinoa was always airheaded and emotional, Quistis was always stiff and brooding. Seifer didn’t even go through a lot of personality changes. Name a few instances where these characters struck an emotional chord with the player. Just be general, since of course, you may feel that these characters were nothing but realistic, whereas I, however feel they weren’t too believable. IMHO, the only real important scene I can think of is in Trabia garden, but even then, no one really switched places with each other; feelings weren’t understood, except Squall, obviously, being the sulking protagonist. They were discovering their past, which was conveniently forgotten (although I believe it was a nice touch to personally include the GF’s into the storyline that way) though i felt like, “Who cares?”.
That’s what Im trying to say. Maybe these scenes and these changes weren’t communicated too well for me. I’m looking for depth, and FF8 doesn’t have that, not the way FF7 had that. I hate to make the comparison but everyone is familiar with FF7, so, sue me.
The Eyes on Me sequence was great for me- I loved it, but that little annoying bimbo still ate away at my nerves- Rinoa. She just…does nothing. It’s said on that site, cant remmeber the link, but they kinda make fun of the general RPG’s…Rinoa had the “Hi, it was written in the script that Im your love interest” and that’s EXACTLY how it is. The game designers made sure that we’d know Squall and Rinoa would end up together. Of course, that’s what the game is based on, but still, you would think they wouldn’t treat their gamers as stupid. Rinoa virtually does NOT evolve throughout the game. She whines, she pisses, she moans, she yearns for Seifer, no wait, Squall, she’s the pretty princess, she’s the leading lady, the rich girl wanna be rebel blah blah blah. her character was as flat as cardboard, not to mention, there have been thousands of “Rinoas” written throughout time. That character is old for me, and I didn’t identify with it at all. None of the minor characters actually.
Comment plzkthx and I’ll go on.
For the most part, the character development in 8 doesn’t show on the surface until later in the game. It’s there, you just have to look for it. It’s not the kind of game that holds your hand and points out everything for you. You have to look beyond one layer of the story to see what’s really going on.
No you don’t. FF8 had one of the most simple and blatant storylines of the series. It was in no way mind provoking, original nor incredibly awe-inspiring. Yes, my expectations are high, but if you analyze such FF’s such as 6, which had the world destroyed, 7, which had a raving madman with a fascination with an alien like being, and even 9, which I believe took a completely different route and atmosphere than any FF. FF8 was a nice touch, I admit but it was kind of silly. It didn’t give off any seriousness at all. Hey, I’m gonna go save my new found girlfriend and then I think I’ll go save the world from some bulging-tit sorceress who needs to enroll in some hooked on phonics.
I guess maybe Im being too harsh. FF8 was possibly designed to not be a brain wrack-er, but still.I guess it’s in my critic. Everything was in your face; little was left to the imagination. Maybe it has to do with the huge romance theme, I definately think that was a deciding factor to tone the weirdness and darkness down.
My point being FF8 was anything but surface scratching, there was hardly any surface. I believe this is why FF8 wasn’t as largely received as others.
Zell kind of does transcend his goofy clumsyness when it comes to the library girl chick thing. Quistis does change in that she stop’s trying to get Squall to wanna score with her, but Quistis has a “professional” outlook on things, but since she is the king of cards you can tell she has a fun side as well. Selphie was always care-free, but she got really serious when the missles launched against her home, and was a bit of a ray of hope to the survivors of the wreakage. Seifer DOES change, but due to the game not being direct about his character, it isnt obvious. Seifer is always an enforcer. He enforces the rules at Balamb garden. Then, he enforces his own opinions of right and wrong when he chooses to go solo and help Rinoa. But then he decides to live out his “romantic dream”. To be the Sorceress’ Knight, or enforcer. Part of me thinks that Seifer is serving his Matron, but when he helps Adel, i dont think that was it. There is also the posibility that Ultimecia was messing with his mind, but i dont think so. Anyways, after Squall defeats him in the end, Seifer becomes pretty docile. No sorceress to serve, he has lost his way(untill the next sorceress arises, tee hee hee). Squall’s changes are too many and obvious to state here, so I’ll get into Laguna’s.
(whole new paragraph for Laguna)
Laguna’s a lot like me. Being a military man, you can tell he isnt scared of a fight, his inability to follow directions and orders though are his main character flaws. Being a clumsy emotional jackass that talks too much is too. But he’s deep. I would venture to say he was also dependant upon the opposite sex too. Not in a sexual way, but in an emotional or spiritual way. He was most complete when he had a pretty girl to listen to and sooth away his fears and worries. That’s why Julia was important to him. We’ll get into Julia and her part of this story of Destiny later. But when Laguna is injured and seperated from his friends, Julia was replaced by Raine, and Ellone. Only, his relationship with Raine was much much deeper than his relationship with Julia. I would venture to say that Raine was Laguna’s first TRUE love. It was when he met Raine and Ellone that he really changed. Instead of living for the quest, the dream of being a reporter, he had something else to live for. Something better, something he never wanted to lose. Untill Esthar came, and took Ellone away.
Here is where things get fuzzy for us. Apprently Laguna searches the world over for Ellone, and Raine, who was pregnant by him, dies giving birth. To Squall. Now, during this, Laguna finally makes his way to Esthar, where his is captured and turned into a slave. During the revolution that he starts, he frees Ellone, and returns to find Raine dead his child instead. Feeling more pain than he could ever imagine, he takes the two children to Edea and Cid, where he puts them in their care while he returns to Esthar to fight the growing revolution… How’s that for a good sized run down ?
If you find any problems with my synopsis of what happened, TELL ME, AND I WILL DESTROY YOU PATHETIC HUMANS !
no really, i love the depth of this game the human emotion involved and if i have any parts of it messed up in my head, i wanna know about em so i can fix it.
I’ve always thought it wasn’t well received because it was too deep, and not in-your-face enough. There’s too much below the surface and not enough on the surface for some people to get. So people don’t see much on the surface, and they think that’s all there is. They don’t bother looking any deeper.
Personally, I felt that the relationships between the characters were what leant the storyline such depth, and I found the characters to be very well developed. I think the game focussed on their own personal and emotional journeys than the whole saving the world thing, which is why some people may not have liked it as much. That’s why I think that how much people like FF8 depends upon how well the player relates to the characters. I found that I really could relate to them, and genuinely cared about what happened to them. I guess I can see that if people don’t relate to the characters then they may not like FF8.
And as for the storyline, I loved it. Some of it was blatant, and it certainly wasn’t the most confusing storylines in the FF series, but some parts were not fully explained, and some parts left to the gamer’s imagination entirely.
This one goes out to Evangelion
I think the problem people had identifying with this game was it was subtle. There were hordes of character development, but it wasn’t underlined for all to see. Events took place that changed how someone acted in the game, but the people in the game didn’t always explain it to you. Squall is the exception, you can almost always hear what he’s thinking. This makes it easy to see Squall’s change, but a lot harder to read the others. Anyway, here’s some things that changed the people in the game:
Edea & Cid:
These two get the rough ride and it shows. Cid has a mental breakdown halfway through the game about Edea and the Garden facility revolt. After that, he takes himself out of the picture and with Edea. Edea (after she was possessed) finds out she’s lost her powers and that she’s nearly killed all the children she raised.
Quistis:
I’m surprised you mentioned Quistis as a non-developed character, she had quite a few things going on: In the beginning of the game she tells Squall about her problems. Losing her teaching license had seemed to make her very upset. Her epiphany of their younger lives later resolved her feelings towards Squall. Quite a bit there, and a lot of it spelled out for the gamer.
Zell:
Zell’s a pretty good one to overlook, probably because he gets so angry all the time, you tend to forget about stuff. When he tips off Deling about the attacking being caused by a Garden student, he freaks out, and makes clear amendments to himself to try and fix things. Besides that, when they all remember their childhoods, Zell has to come with direct terms of his adoption.
Selphie:
Selphie might have acted peppy, but Selphie had some issues brought upon her. Namely one: her old garden former home blew up. She even tries to save it (and then Balamb). Then she gets to go and look at the wreckage of her home and see the graves of her friends that died.
Seifer:
Seifer is low on the development, but I think he can get away with it. He wasn’t there much and it’s hard to gauge how things are going when he’s not. However, stuff does go on. Through the whole game he clings to his ‘romantic dream’ as it destroys him.
Rinoa:
Pull up a chair, we’re going through all of Rinoa’s life: She started life as a rich girl in a child’s paradise. Then her beloved mother dies in a car crash and her mourning father ends up alienating himself from his daughter. Because of all that, she leaves home and goes to Timber and joins a rebel faction (which deepened the rift between her and her father). She ends becoming an important member of the most active rebel faction in Timber.
Then she dates Seifer. Now, we don’t know what happens to that relationship besides it was probably just a summer fling, but their at least on good enough terms for Seifer to help her talk to Cid. Anyway, they screw up a mission in Timber (Fake president) and end up losing the Timber Owls’ base. Even past that, they find they have to leave Timber for Rinoa’s safety, and Rinoa‘s already unhappy about Squall blowing up at her. At this point basically everything is going wrong for her.
When they get to Galbadia they’re lead to believe Seifer’s dead, and Rinoa’s saddened by it. When they find out he is alive, but on the ’bad side’ it makes things even more confusing for her.
Her feeling for Squall come about right before he gets shanked. When Irvine gets her out of the prison, and at that point she cares enough about the others to go back and help them. From then on, slight signs of Rinoa and Squall getting goofy for each other show, but their subtle as hell (especially Squall’s).
Then there’s the possession. She finds out what has happened and starts settling on the idea that everyone is going to hate her. So she decided to allow the Estharians to lock her up in space for everyone’s safety. When Squall saves her, she finds that perhaps not everyone dislikes her. Then time compression (weeee!)
So there’s just about as much development as Squally boy. Only you didn’t get to hear all of Rinoa’s thoughts. I suppose if you were to take Rinoa on a quick glance, you could see her as childish. But this game I believe was trying to go with an air of realism in that there are many layers to a person, not all of them yelled at you.
Squall:
Now, I know you agreed Squall went through some changes. But I think his love for Rinoa’s a little more than tacked on. From the beginning (as in Timber) he starts treating her differently from the others. Most of it probably comes from the fact that she’s his client, so the sense of having to protect her does make a lot of decisions. Something very clear about Squall is that he either tries to not care about others, or at least hide it. Because this his keeps himself closed to others, it’s hard to see if he likes them, but the signs are there.
When Rinoa goes into the coma, Squall’s feelings for her come to the surface. It seems most think that someone turned on a light switch marked ’Squall love’ at that point. However, a more accurate switch would be ’expressed feelings.’ Just because he didn’t buy her a puppy in front of everyone doesn’t mean he didn’t like her.
Originally posted by Pookie
[b]This one goes out to EvangelionI think the problem people had identifying with this game was it was subtle. There were hordes of character development, but it wasn’t underlined for all to see. Events took place that changed how someone acted in the game, but the people in the game didn’t always explain it to you. Squall is the exception, you can almost always hear what he’s thinking. This makes it easy to see Squall’s change, but a lot harder to read the others. Anyway, here’s some things that changed the people in the game:[/b]
For me there wasn’t anything to read. The characters had nothing else to offer in terms of of thinking. You could tell that by just reading their dialogue. If Im not mistaken, the game was centered around Squall, not the others, and this makes them quite distant to me. None of them really had a huge connection except just getting caught up in the storyline.
Edea & Cid:
These two get the rough ride and it shows. Cid has a mental breakdown halfway through the game about Edea and the Garden facility revolt. After that, he takes himself out of the picture and with Edea. Edea (after she was possessed) finds out she’s lost her powers and that she’s nearly killed all the children she raised.
I never identified much with Cid. Don’t mistake character developement with character events. Cid as a character didn’t do anything except give orders, worry, and be the devils advocate when it came to Edea. Edea as well, had nothing, until she regained herself again. She went from badass sorceress to middle aged housewife kinda, and she was probably my favorite character. There isn’t a big turn around to her joining your party, and after that she’s pretty much left out of the picture.
Quistis:
I’m surprised you mentioned Quistis as a non-developed character, she had quite a few things going on: In the beginning of the game she tells Squall about her problems. Losing her teaching license had seemed to make her very upset. Her epiphany of their younger lives later resolved her feelings towards Squall. Quite a bit there, and a lot of it spelled out for the gamer.
Like i said before, don’t mistake character events with development. Quistis didn’t change from trying to communicate to Squall her feelings. That was a petty little scene, and the player didn’t benefit at all from it. That scene was to mesh out the relationship she has with Squall during the entire game. Quistis went from strict teacher, to having a soft, maybe even gentler side, but this was rarely shown. We didn’t get the transition except for a few rushed dialogue instances, excluded the omg we’re from the same orphanage scene.
Zell:
Zell’s a pretty good one to overlook, probably because he gets so angry all the time, you tend to forget about stuff. When he tips off Deling about the attacking being caused by a Garden student, he freaks out, and makes clear amendments to himself to try and fix things. Besides that, when they all remember their childhoods, Zell has to come with direct terms of his adoption.
So? None of this is shown adaquetly. So he gets upset all the time? This is in character. In no way does Zell undergo emotional changes or come to grips with his adoption. A few short dialogue scenes, as I’ve said before, and that’s it. Zell might be my exception because his character is pretty mouthy and communicative, but the way these scenes are handled gives me the feeling that they’re not trying to make the player care. We don’t really know the indepth relationship he has with his adoptive parents, so let’s not jump to conclusions that his scenario was a sad and tragic one.
Selphie:
Selphie might have acted peppy, but Selphie had some issues brought upon her. Namely one: her old garden former home blew up. She even tries to save it (and then Balamb). Then she gets to go and look at the wreckage of her home and see the graves of her friends that died.
And again so? This isn’t character development. You’re failing to present exact cases where these characters have changed, or somehow evolved- all you’re telling me are time when these minor characters get some spotlight, which is another arguement all together. Selphie goes into these scenarios int he exact frame of mind she uses any other time in the game.
Seifer:
Seifer is low on the development, but I think he can get away with it. He wasn’t there much and it’s hard to gauge how things are going when he’s not. However, stuff does go on. Through the whole game he clings to his ‘romantic dream’ as it destroys him.
I didn’t think he was low on developement. he was antagonized by Edea in the beginning of the game, suggesting that he is indeed still childish and hasn’t transended the boy-man bridge. Everytime we see him, he’s different, or still clinging to what he’s trying to accomplish. And the romantic dream thing is hardly worthy of arguement- that was only mentioned once, and the idea is so vague, that we have really no idea what he is talking about. It doesn’t really say over and over again that Seifer is only trying to accomplish his romantic dream. I believe that was said in the moment, and for drama. He was controlled by Edea, so his hidden emotions were brought out to the surface more, and then eventually died at the end of the game. And we also see him interacting with other characters in the game besides the main ones-Raijin and Fuijin. They were hardly important, but they ultimately saved him in the end, suggesting there was more to the three of them than what we had imagined.
Rinoa:
Pull up a chair, we’re going through all of Rinoa’s life: She started life as a rich girl in a child’s paradise. Then her beloved mother dies in a car crash and her mourning father ends up alienating himself from his daughter. Because of all that, she leaves home and goes to Timber and joins a rebel faction (which deepened the rift between her and her father). She ends becoming an important member of the most active rebel faction in Timber.
Then she dates Seifer. Now, we don’t know what happens to that relationship besides it was probably just a summer fling, but their at least on good enough terms for Seifer to help her talk to Cid. Anyway, they screw up a mission in Timber (Fake president) and end up losing the Timber Owls’ base. Even past that, they find they have to leave Timber for Rinoa’s safety, and Rinoa‘s already unhappy about Squall blowing up at her. At this point basically everything is going wrong for her.
Like I said before. You’re not giving me any concrete evidence of character development. Does Rinoa change or alter her actions or thought after these events? No. We know almost nothing about she and her father and her mother’s death. Squall getting mad at Rinoa is not character development, it’s interaction.
When they get to Galbadia they’re lead to believe Seifer’s dead, and Rinoa’s saddened by it. When they find out he is alive, but on the ’bad side’ it makes things even more confusing for her.
Her feeling for Squall come about right before he gets shanked. When Irvine gets her out of the prison, and at that point she cares enough about the others to go back and help them. From then on, slight signs of Rinoa and Squall getting goofy for each other show, but their subtle as hell (especially Squall’s).
Then there’s the possession. She finds out what has happened and starts settling on the idea that everyone is going to hate her. So she decided to allow the Estharians to lock her up in space for everyone’s safety. When Squall saves her, she finds that perhaps not everyone dislikes her. Then time compression (weeee!)
Same. Character interaction. And uh these feelings don’t surface, we kinda know Rinoa has a thing for Squall when they dance. That’s pretty much known. But Rinoa doesn’t go about these feelings any differently, like you said, they’re both kinda goofy, but Rinoa’s just goofier than normal. Her personality doesn’t go through a complete 360, nor does she appear anymore disturbing, sinister or interesting. The most character developement Rinoa goes through is when she gets posessed and says she should be locked up. But that’s expected, anyways.
So there’s just about as much development as Squally boy. Only you didn’t get to hear all of Rinoa’s thoughts. I suppose if you were to take Rinoa on a quick glance, you could see her as childish. But this game I believe was trying to go with an air of realism in that there are many layers to a person, not all of them yelled at you.
That’s impossible, seeing as Squall is the main character, and not Rinoa. Squall is a lovesick puppy in the end as well as Rinoa, but she was one throughout the entire game, wasn’t she? Yes. Squall had many layers he had to unlock to find himself, Rinoa had none. She wasn’t even in the orphanage, so she had no reason to undergo such a trauma.
Squall:
Now, I know you agreed Squall went through some changes. But I think his love for Rinoa’s a little more than tacked on. From the beginning (as in Timber) he starts treating her differently from the others. Most of it probably comes from the fact that she’s his client, so the sense of having to protect her does make a lot of decisions. Something very clear about Squall is that he either tries to not care about others, or at least hide it. Because this his keeps himself closed to others, it’s hard to see if he likes them, but the signs are there.
Squall being closed off from people is NOT character development. Squall seeing Rinoa in a coma and begins to care is character development. Squall going into space for Rinoa is character developement. Squall thinking to himself about how much he’s changed. How much he loves his sis. How he suddenly realizes he doesn’t want to be left alone. That’s character development. Summarizing the events in the game is not character development.
it’s fairly blantantly obvious what he thinks of the others as the game progresses though, maybe not towards the end.
When Rinoa goes into the coma, Squall’s feelings for her come to the surface. It seems most think that someone turned on a light switch marked ’Squall love’ at that point. However, a more accurate switch would be ’expressed feelings.’ Just because he didn’t buy her a puppy in front of everyone doesn’t mean he didn’t like her.
Squall didn’t like Rinoa in the beginning of the game, that was clear. But you’re right about the coma thing, that made something inside him click, and that inspired the emotional changes. But I don’t believe he returned her feelings early on, nor did he really care for her.
8’s story isn’t so much about the characters’ personalities changing as it is revealing more about them, although I stilll think there’s more development than you’re seeing. But just because they don’t all go through major or obvious changes doesn’t mean they have no depth.
You answered your own question a couple times. The game WAS centered around Squall, so you wouldn’t be able to see exactly how the others’ thoughts changed. Nevemind that, all this stuff that happened did happen during a war. They weren’t gonna stop a fight with Adel and start whining over how unhappy they were that Trabia blew up…Especially since Rinoa was duct-taped to her at the time.
And there is character development for Rinoa. If you can’t give me anything, then you definitely have to give me her turning into a sorceress. She went from the girl who was trying to save Timber to a sorceress willing to give her life to protect the world.
So, sans Squall and to a lesser extent Rinoa, the characters weren’t changing dramatically. However, as Resh pointed out, if there was no change, it doesn’t mean there was no point to them.
Oh, and no one knows for sure what happened to Seifer (as in who made his decisions) it wasn’t brought up in the game.
Originally posted by Resh
But just because they don’t all go through major or obvious changes doesn’t mean they have no depth.
Name me a few instances then. Depth is major and obvious changes, otherwise, it’s just…not.
Originally posted by Pookie
You answered your own question a couple times. The game WAS centered around Squall, so you wouldn’t be able to see exactly how the others’ thoughts changed. Nevemind that, all this stuff that happened did happen during a war. They weren’t gonna stop a fight with Adel and start whining over how unhappy they were that Trabia blew up…Especially since Rinoa was duct-taped to her at the time.
No, I believe I was saying that despite the game being centered around Squall, there could have been more instances that focused on the lesser characters as well. because all of the game was in Squall’s head, we see virtually no development for the minor characters. They could let us KNOW the major thought and personality changes, the game doesn’t have to be centered around Quistis, to project the emotional and pyschological changes that she went through, if any.
And no, they weren’t constantly at war with Adel. Adel didn’t even factor in, until the end of disc 3 when she was released. For a war, the game was very easy going in some instances, since during Trabia garden’s destruction, everyone all somehow managed to “find themselves” during Irvine’s tear jerking speech about forgetting each other and the orphanage. Same with Rinoa being trapped inside Adel, that was only for one battle, no one else was worried about it any other time.
And there is character development for Rinoa. If you can’t give me anything, then you definitely have to give me her turning into a sorceress. She went from the girl who was trying to save Timber to a sorceress willing to give her life to protect the world.
Yes, with absolutely no behaviorial changes at all. That’s what made her character entirely annoying and unrealistic.
So, sans Squall and to a lesser extent Rinoa, the characters weren’t changing dramatically. However, as Resh pointed out, if there was no change, it doesn’t mean there was no point to them.
Point and depth are two different things. The depth in FF8 was seriously lacking. It’s probably one of the more lighter FF’s I can think of. I never said there wasn’t any point- the characters provided some entertainment, and even some identity issues in teenagers today (though again, that’s lacking, because it’s insulting to think most teenagers are so one tracked) were presented.
Oh, and no one knows for sure what happened to Seifer (as in who made his decisions) it wasn’t brought up in the game.
I’m pretty sure he was being controlled by Edea to some degree. He acted on his own will, but Edea seemed to provoke his hateful emotions enough for him to stay loyal enough to her.
I think FF8 was a pretty good game. Not my favorite FF, (it used to be) but i still think it came out pretty good. It didn’t really make me think and i didn’t like that, but it was still IMO a good solid game.
Yuuuuus! One of the points I was trying (and failed miserably at) to make, was the fact that the characters don’t make you think. The game doesn’t give off that feeling.
Change isn’t all there is to character depth. The game shows a lot of different sides and layers to the characters. Cid’s desire to do the right thing and his frustration with NORG and the garden staff for perverting his dream, not to mention the courage it must have taken to order the death of his wife. Rinoa’s relationship with her father and the various things that led to the rift between them. Quistis’ feelings for Squall, and her blaming herself partially for Seifer. The many hidden layers of Squall. Laguna’s bravery on the battlefield along with his fear and nervousness around women. Irvine’s false bravado hiding his insecurities. Zell’s finding out he was adopted (it’s clearly stated that he didn’t know). The main characters finding out about their lost childhoods, discovering that the GFs they depend on are responsible for the loss, and having the courage to go on using them even though it could mean losing more.
That’s depth, the many layers on and below the characters’ surfaces. The things about them we find out as we get to know them. Change is part of it, but it’s not all there is. Maybe some of the characters didn’t change much during the course of the story, but they definitely had depth.
If major character change is what you’re looking for, I can understand why you don’t like the characters in 8, but don’t dismiss everything else about them.