Mega - I had known about the Theory of Abiogenesis but had forgotten. I know nothing more about it than what you said, but based on that I am not convinced that inanimate objects can become animate by becoming a substance that can be alive.
Originally posted by Merlin
Being in the realm of infinity, they are infinitly being granted a choice, and infinitly rejecting it; since time has no real value in the face of Infinity. This is also how God is able to grant them the choice, even though He already knows what the outcome will be.
In other words, there is absolutely no way they could have chosen those things of their own free will, but god is god and so he gets to defy all the laws of the universe, so they don’t apply to him and thus the contradiction is resolved because god magicked it that way.
Still, even in Paradise Lost, events take place sequentially. Additionally, Adam and Eve (and all we sinners) are still experiencing life linearly. God has absolute foreknowledge of their decision, but they do not. Thus, from their perspective, the final outcome was known before they even thought about eating the fruit. So, god was aware of their decision before they made it. But god is not just a neutral observer - he is also the one who passes judgment (save or damn) based on the decision, and, since he is the one who controls the universe, he is also the one who gave them that “choice” in the first place, while knowing what they would do when given it. It is because of that combination that there can be no real choice, since god is not only aware of the outcome of the judgment beforehand, but also passes the judgment and creates the entire premise for the judgment.
Originally posted by demigod
Why do you oppose the possibility of the existence of God/a god/gods.
Prove to me that one exists. And don’t tell me to prove that one does not exist, the burden of proof is on you since it is absolutely impossible to prove something does not exist.
What SK is saying is that since God knew <b>absolutely everything</b> that was going to happen since the <b>beginning of time, the alpha, the start, the creation of everything, whatever you want to call it</b> and he also knows the consequences of every single one of his actions, everything that happens in this world is a consequent of God’s action, and he knows this. When he created the world, he <b>knew</b> that Eve was going to be kicked out, etc., so “free will” is merely a mockery of what it implies, since we don’t really have “choices” (God already made them for us when he created the world or did this and that)
I know myself spiritually well enough to know that I cannot sense the presence of what one might call a god. I am still open to the possibility of the existence of a god, but until I can sense one, I cannot conceive that I should believe in god.
Originally posted by Tenchimaru Draconis
<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> The whole idea of a big floating man up there in the sky somewhere seems kinda silly.
I agree Steve, church is for n00bs.
/me sniper camps the church.
I hate religion, and I don’t believe in a god because I believe in evolution instead. The idea of there being a god is interesting, but it doesn’t really make sense. My personal opinion is that religion was created just to control people, because if it was, they’ve been fairly successful.
The truth is what I want it to be, but that doesn’t mean it’s the truth for the person besides me. Everything in this world is mine, just like everything in the world of this methaphorical person besides me is his and not mine.
Too bad no one respects worlds, but throws trash on them. I just stepped on an old broken tin can, it hurt.
Originally posted by Exo
I wonder why people still beleive in Evolution though, I’ve yet to see apes slowly form into men, neither has anyone since Darwins studys. Evolution is a load of shit, yeah so is god in my opinion. But I can basically say those who seek the definition of life, have no life themselves. What keeps me going every day is that, we’re all here and nothings going to change that by worshipping anything, or nothing. Religion is just a comfort, no more, no less.
Evolution is differential reproduction. of individuals Over time, creatures with certain traits mate and have more kids and out compete those who do not have their traits. Example: the peppered moth. In England, there was pollution thanks to industries and soot covered the trees. There were 2 kinds of moths: dark and light ones. the light ones used to hide on moss. The dark ones had issues with birds. With pollution, the dark ones could hide and the light ones were eaten. The dark ones became dominant. Evolution in action thanks to a reproductive advantage. From there, the populations can differentiate over time from what they were before thanks to genetic drift and become different species. But that has yet to happen since its a relatively recent event. However, speciation thanks to geographic or reproductive isolation is a demonstration of differential reproduction. You get dif things over time as traits go to fixation.
As for apes, fossils and genetics help support the notion of humans evolving from ancestral apes.
Considering there is more papers written about evolution than there are references to God in the bible, that there are entire schools and thousands of scientists that studied evolution (and essentially showed its existence) over 100+ years, your argument is BS and you have no idea what you’re talking about and know nothing of evolution.
>Still, even in Paradise Lost, events take place sequentially. Additionally, Adam and Eve (and all we sinners) are still experiencing life linearly. God has absolute foreknowledge of their decision, but they do not. Thus, from their perspective, the final outcome was known before they even thought about eating the fruit. So, god was aware of their decision before they made it. But god is not just a neutral observer - he is also the one who passes judgment (save or damn) based on the decision, and, since he is the one who controls the universe, he is also the one who gave them that “choice” in the first place, while knowing what they would do when given it. It is because of that combination that there can be no real choice, since god is not only aware of the outcome of the judgment beforehand, but also passes the judgment and creates the entire premise for the judgment.
Of course there is still real choice. Your problem is you are comparing human experience in terms of infinity or “god” or God. In the face of infinity and eternity and all that, all of everything, one could say, loses all meaning. There is no time, no real space, and nothing you say or do or think even “matters,” simply because there’s just so much other matter floating around that your own self is reduced to nothingness in the face of infinity. Whether your free or predestined or green-eyed or Presbyterian loses all declarative meaning amidst infinity. It’s why people like Pascal get depressed and write about abysses.
But, humanity does not, can not, think in terms of infinity. Even while I’m or you are talking about infinity, we are not even remotely encapsulating what infinity is, because the mere thought of the “true” measure of infinity would make our brains 'splode across the pavement and stuff. For the sake of the discussion though let’s pretend that we can envision what infinity is even though I know I can’t truly conceptualize it, and you likely can’t either; unless you’ve achieved a higher status than just the Intellectual Love God recently 
Thus, infinity is this wicked bigass thing that humanity can’t comprehend because of its very nature; because it’s impossible for us to “know” something that doesn’t have a certain limit of mathematical value. Infinity is nothing and everything at once, and thus incalculable.
Thankfully, we think linearly. Our universe makes sense in terms of the laws of mathematics and theoretical physics and lots of stuff I don’t understand but stuff that contains actual definition. Since our existence (in our minds) exists on a forward-moving line, it means that to us the future is nonexistent until it becomes the present, and thus we have the power and ability to shape the later-presents by what we do in the “now present.” What its “real” form is in the face of omnipresent infinity is irrelevant; for not only is it impossible for us to conceptualize what it might be within something like infinity, the very nature of what’s “real” ceases to have any definition by its very act of being within infinity. You can replace God with infinity even, because that’s how I try to think of the old “alpha and omega” part of God’s omnipresence/omniscience.
I’m sure that that might not have made sense, I’m probably articulating it poorly, and you’ll likely tear it all apart with snazzy metaphors and sound logic. But I’ll have to rebuild my house of cards again, anyway. Of course, if you disbelieve in the very concept of Infinity, which is certainly possible and understandable considering it’s something rather hard to demonstrate, that’s a different matter.
>Considering there is more papers written about evolution than there are references to God in the bible, that there are entire schools and thousands of scientists that studied evolution (and essentially showed its existence) over 100+ years, your argument is BS and you have no idea what you’re talking about and know nothing of evolution.
Well, to be fair, evolution has been around for 100+ years; but religious debate and analysis and discussion has been going on since the barest form of civilization started from 5000-7000 years ago, so uh, don’t use that as the sole factor for calling his argument BS
actually, y’all can rebut with whatever you choose, just know that I’m rather busy so I’m likely not going to be able to reply in-length. But I doubt we’re going to crack the nut of human purpose in this thread anyway, so it’s alright.
Oh Merlin and SK, doing a variation of the old “can God create a boulder” argument, only with more words.
yay for things that will never be resolved! whoo!
Do I believe in God? I believe in the possibility that there is a supreme deity that created all existence, watching over all of us.
Actually I believe the universe was created in a way that man cannot yet comprehend. The reason this age old debate has never been answered is because humans are too stupid to understand how the universe was created, or even to form a plausible hypothesis. I think religion was created to simplify things, to satisfy people’s natural curiousity of the how we all came to be, despite the fact that no one truly knows. On the other hand, maybe religion is right, but I doubt it. Deities are used as scapegoats to explain what people do not understand.
In the past, gods were used to explain strange occurences, such as a meteor shower or the weather. Nowadays, gods are used to explain how it all began. In my opinion, this topic should not be brought up again until an answer is found. I for one am tired of this stupid debate.
Originally posted by Merlin
[b]>Considering there is more papers written about evolution than there are references to God in the bible, that there are entire schools and thousands of scientists that studied evolution (and essentially showed its existence) over 100+ years, your argument is BS and you have no idea what you’re talking about and know nothing of evolution.Well, to be fair, evolution has been around for 100+ years; but religious debate and analysis and discussion has been going on since the barest form of civilization started from 5000-7000 years ago, so uh, don’t use that as the sole factor for calling his argument BS
You didn’t quite read what I said.
It’s ok, sin, I read what you said.
thank you ;_;
you should change your name it Sinstradorable!