Do you ever wonder why, in such games as Final Fantasy 7 and Golden Sun 2, the hardest bosses are only optional? I mean, in Final Fantasy 7 Ruby Weapon and Emerald Weapon could have ripped the world a new one but instead, Ruby poked a claw out of the ground and I guess Emerald was training for the Olympics. And in Golden Sun 2 Dulluhan could have made everyone feel his wraith but instead he sat on his ass and waited till all the Djinn came to him. Why not just bust out and kick some psychedelic 32 bit ass??:hyperven:
Simply because if FF7 had actually FORCED you to do all that’s needed to beat Emerald and Ruby (Namely: Grand Materia Whoring) simply to end the game, the number of people who actually finished it would be way, way lower nowadays. Not everyone enjoys insane powergaming, thus Emerald and Ruby are there for those of us that like a bit more challenge.
Sadly, Ruby and Emerald can be summed up to “If you do it this or this way you win for sure, if you do any other they’ll kick your arse”, which pretty much ruins the “Challenge” bit since you have to pic between a long boring sure-win fight and a short sure-lose fight. Hence why the more randomized Omega Weapon is so much better.
I never beat FF8’s Omega Weapon without cheating and using invincibility items. >_>
The one time I did it (memory card got wiped and hell if I’m going trough all that again) I had to use the only two Hero items simply to survive Terra Break, triggered four Lionhearts, emptied almost all my Pulse Ammo supplies and even then only managed to barely beat it on the fifth try. Now THAT is difficulty.
man, its been forever since i’ve played final fantasy 8 and I never actually got to him, instead my buddy Graham had to cause at the point where I played it, I sucked at those huge bosses and he never ACTUALLY beat him. bummer, but, I think that bosses like that, as I said previously, could in fact, rip the world a new one if they wanted to, but none the less they sit around and wait for unsuspecting adventurers to pass by and eat them for breakfast.
The reason why the hardest bosses are optional are simple. I’m not sure how old you are, or how long you’ve been playing games, but in the not-so-distant past, games didn’t have optional bosses. Those of us who finished games were done with them. Often, people could finish games in just the time-frame of a rental. Thus, to give games added length, as well as more replayability, they added additional bosses at the end of the game for those who’ve finished the main story. The reason that these are often (but not always) harder than the final boss is that most people who’d want to put in the effort to finish these optional bosses are often the same people who’d be willing to level far beyond where one needs to be to finish the game.
I thought Omega Weapon was of the same sort as Emerald and Ruby. I’m not big on optional boss fights for that reason, because there’s usually really just one strategy you can use. But I did like Shinryuu and Omega from Final Fantasy V, maybe because you don’t have to waste quite as much time preparing for them as you do for Emerald Weapon.
zaius: It’s a game. Those guys are there for the extra challenge, as you’ll notice they are never even mentioned in the plot. You are not supposed to think about these thing so deeply.
SK: Not really, there aren’t many sure-thing methods against FFVIII’s Omega as with Emerald and Ruby. You can refine Laguna’s card into 100 Heros, but considering the diminute timeframe in which it is available and how hard it is to get (Sup, Random rule), it’s not likely that you’ll get it unless you look for it real hard. Omega’s fight relies mostly on luck and how well you can respond to the constant hammering, whereas Emerald and Ruby are just finding the right combination of attacks and sitting there watching KotR for half an hour with your thumb stuck to the X button.
ok, just to go on record as saying this, i am 15 almost 16 so i havent been around forever but I have been around since the dawn of Final Fantasy 7 probably my favorite in the series (next to 5{CLASSES RULE!!}) but I guess it’s living out in the country that drives me nuts, I mean, out here I really don’t have anyone to have a deep video game conversation with. So I come to the forums, where you are SUPPOSED to be able to have a decent conversation about this kinda stuff without someone thinking that you are a complete and total low life, which is not the case, I guess my brain is just on overdrive. Sorry to anyone who disagrees with me on this but, isn’s that what this stuff is all about??
This is a discussion. The view that it isn’t something you should be thinking about deeply is a perfectly valid viewpoint, and it’s one you’re free to disagree with.
I seem to recall Gilgamesh’s card refining for 10 items that invincible-ized your entire party, meaning all you had to do was keep one character ready to use one at any time and Omega could never hurt you.
I think anyone who was actually as powerful as many optional bosses would be beyond the point of caring. It’s like asking why, in Dungeons and Dragons, Overgods just don’t go and beat up the weaker Gods and steal their worshippers. They are simply above the rest of them, and have no need, cause, or desire to prove that by defeating them for a reward that, in their eyes, is too petty to even be considered.
Simply put, when you’re as powerful as some of the bosses, it’s just not worth the effort of moving your weapon into contact with them to kill them. They’re a waste of time, and there’s no reason to not let them live if they aren’t doing you any harm.
I remember beating Omega Weapon without using any invincibility items.
I used one of Rinoa’s limit breaks. (What were they called in FF8?) I forget the name, but it was one where the dog jumps out and howls at the moon, making your guys invincible. It was still rediculously hard though. You get that certificate when you beat him so you can proove it to your friends.
I prefer optional bosses like the ones in older FFs (4-5-6) where while the boss himself was fairly tough, a good strategy will pull through, but you weren’t restrained to ‘Do this or die’.
I remember my method for Shinryu too. Everyone had ninja maxed, dragoon job with dual-wield, 2 dragon killer spears.
Jump.
As for Omega, I remember abusing sword magic/dualwield/x-fight and doublecast bolt 3.
You have a good point. In 7, that’s the best example, the Weapons were supposed to be an important part of the story, but the two optional ones did nothing.
In recent times, Dragon Quest 8’s option bosses weren’t pointless. They actually attached some story to them. Other games should follow that example.
Limit Breaks.
The one you’re talking about is Invincible Moon. I was begging Rinoa to do it all the way trough my fight with Omega and never saw it once, then she did it four times in a row against Ultimecia. It sort of felt like the game was laughing at me.
I think the reason Ruby and Emerald never did anything story-wise was because they were not in the original Japanese game. i think they were included for the American release aswell as a special edition of the Japanese game. I could be totally wrong though! It’s not like i’ve played the Japanese games, I just remember reading that somewhere.
Yep, you’re right.
Yeah, Gilgamesh Card refines into 10 Holy Wars, and it’s far easier to get than the Laguna Card. (Unlike the Lunar Base, Balamb Garden doesn’t have crazy rules, making getting Gilgamesh rather simple, although the player with it is fairly good.)
I just checked the save I had halfway trough and you are right. Still the original point remains that you can choose to use those or items or to sacrifice your GF to survive Terra Break. The battle isn’t as restrictive as with FFVII.
Nobody has mentioned FF9s Ozma? Ozma had at least a little influence in dialogue, before you fought Hades (I think). It’s been forever since i last played that game.