I've Had Enough

Well in that case I hope you restrict yourself to girls with the same intentions you have.

I probly don’t need to tell you these things, cos you’re a pretty smart guy…and you may not even want to hear them, or will regard them as truistic. You’re my pal though, so I just feel a need to remind you.

Even though you may think what you’ve done is bad, it’s really your life, and you don’t need to justify your actions or feelings to anyone but yourself. If you think what you’ve done is either good or bad, that’s all that matters in the end. You already know that relationships are hard cos most things you do require you to take the other person’s feelings into account. So, what does this mean? Even if you feel hopeless, you can change yourself if you really want to. Even if you’ve failed to a lot of times (and it sounds to me like you have), it’s not the end. It’s really never the end until you’re dead. I’m willing to bet that coming out with this won’t have a long, terrible, negative impact on the rest of your life. You’ve always got a chance to change as long as you’re still around to make it happen, and whether or not you might think so of me, I know this to be very, very true.

You don’t have to do anything about it, either, of course. I’m not the judge or authority on your life. Everything is up to you, and your real friends I think will not turn on you for your bad behavior, or tell you what you have to do. Only you can do that. You probably have already made your decision to give up for now, but remember that you can always change if you want to. I won’t judge you for what you’ve done, or will do. I promise.

0_0 You did bad thing.

Oh god if I had known these things about you in the first place I think I’d never even have spoken to you. How disgusting, the poor girl. I wish I could talk to her to cheer her up. She would thank me for it. Maybe I could even become her friend. I sure feel like it.

Did I ever mention that I hate you?

So, you are the way you are, zeppelin. Not saying it’s all right, but we’re all assholes in one way or another, so how’s it our place to degrade you? Time to get over it, sorta pointless to make a thread like this unless you actually want to be flamed.

It’s your life. What I may think of you because of one situation will not cloud my view of you as a general person, because we are made of contradictions.

'n shit. Yeah.

Not bad. Not bad at all. Mainly because you actually bothered to share this with us, people who are barely existant to you.

Of course, the whole thing in an online relationship might just start from scratch, since heck, the person only exists because s/he has a personality of some sort attached to the handle s/he uses.

But who knows, maybe the handles they share will be something very big to both parties one day…

Well, since it seems that this isn’t just a thread directed at the people who already knew…

Fuck you Zepp, I have reached a new level of moral relativity with this one (I don’t like relativism). On the one hand I want to call you all sorts of hateful things for being a monster, but on the other hand, you recognize what you are and what you’ve done. I am a huge believer that ownership of ones actions can damn near justify anything, and you are certainly not pawning this off at all. This is the point in time where if I knew you outside the forums I’d offer you a shot of vodka. It is rough to accept the charges of any crime, especially when its only a crime in peoples hearts. I hope this doesn’t break you or her (though I doubt it will).

And for the record, you are a sick twisted son of a bitch, but somehow absoleved from the guilt of being such. Damn, thats smoothe.

I wonder if people would have the “You know what you are and that justifies everything” attitude if they watched this sort of thing unfold on tv or personally. Just a thought.

I know I wouldn’t, and I’d likely want to snap someone in two. I was trying very hard to restrain myself yesterday, but since DT and a few others have said what I was thinking, I see no need for that. I mean, how could someone treat another like that? Is this guy even human, damnit?!

Nobody here is saying he is free of sin (At least I’m not) but it’s his problem and his life, we don’t really have a say in this matter.

Im not saying that he doesn’t have to ever answer to himself, the law or some higher power, I am just saying that someone who is non-delusionally cognisent of their actions and accepts ownership of them is beyond my personal sense of justice. I’d also like to point out that I am not liking how much of a moral relativist I feel like in relation to this.

There are consequences to everything, these can’t be bought off by knowing and accepting what you’ve done, in fact, these are cemented by such a stance. Its the direct acceptance of these consequences that makes it harder for me to judge someone else.

And no, it doesn’t apply on TV, and rarely in person, because people don’t often reach the mental state of reconcilliation to their actions.

I do know that I’d hate myself if I ever did an infinitesimal part of what he did.

Manus, have you considered that he might feel the same way? Its easy to judge from a distance, but the closer you get, the less fury there is, the less righteousness. Instead of passions and wild strengths of character, everything gets replaced by a heavy feeling in your stomach and a detached aura around you that separates you from yourself. There is to much of an abject feeling to stop and consider how holier others may be than you. Wait until you do something horrible, then look back at how you are now, if you can even think at the time. It weighs heavily, too heavily to waste time using superlatives and condemn people.

Yes, in fact, it’s the very reason he could do it. Humans are not as ‘goodnatured’ as you seem to imagine, as while Zeppelin’s intentions had never been to harm, the road to hell is paved with good ideas and intentions. In fact, I’m fairly sure she was probably happy for a time, because it takes a certain type of mind to BE controlled so tightly. Some people (men OR women) enjoy the stressless sensation that someone else is controlling their lives, it’s a degree of security for those who fear taking charge.

And to those who wonder why I’m not joining in with the cry of moral outrage, it’s simply because my father is the same, so I’m used to dealing with it. It doesn’t make either of them bad people, really.

I know that some people enjoy being controlled, and I have no illusions about human goodness anymore, but the way he put it out leads me to believe that his actions were deliberate. This has nothing to do with righteousness. I’m simply shocked. It’s because of things like this that I tend to be so disheartened with people.

There are many reasons as to why you’re reading what you’re reading, Eva, and why you think what you think about what you’re observing. Just remember what range of people visit these boards.

I’d be the last to say my hands are clean of anything on this board and while, yeah, it’s just not cool that it happened (and I had no clue it was happening), I’m not in a position to start condeming Zep as the scum of the Earth. Relationships are complicated and so are the issues people often bring with them into relationships and making a real relationship, something few here can really comment on, is hard and complicated beyond words. To blame solely Zep for everything that happened and how things unfolded is also foolhardy because both individuals in relationships make decisions, even if that decision is to not take a stand, which is also a hard decision to understand sometimes. All in all, this was just a gigantic clusterfuck.

Oh Zepp, you ragamuffin you.

I also think that one must remember that an explanation is not an exculpation. Its not because one can understand why something occurs or has occured that if this is wrong, that it is less wrong for having a reason to have occured.

Seraphim, of course it’s his life, but he chose to share it. Therefore, are the rest of us not free to comment on this? (within reason) I was just asking a question, i wasn’t really given my own personal opinion. Just curious.

if I was the girl in this situation I wouldn’t be saying 'Well it’s your life, and you’re just an asshole." it would be a whole lot more complicated. Even in the other position. I just found it odd that everyone seems to…desensitized by it, and even lessening what he did as something that’s just something that we all might do some time or another…

Delita, you sound as if you’re glorifying this…also, Zeppelin did not apologize for anything. To my knowledge, he made this thread to get people off of his ass, not to gain the knowledge of life or how to deal with relationships. I don’t think he would feel the same way, nor take most of this thread seriously. He’s clearly an individual who wouldn’t get swayed by something that we’d write, nor does he seem that he views this thread as a confessional, and to apologize…

As for Sin’s comment, well, I was definately shocked, since Zeppelin doesn’t seem to post seriously…ever :stuck_out_tongue: But well, I wasn’t there, I’m just reading a few paragraphs. Like I said, I was just asking a question, I didn’t mean to imply that his actions were disgusting or immoral. It takes two to tango. So i really can’t make assumptions about him when it’s really none of my business. So yeah, i guess that makes me come off as agreeing with your second paragraph as well :3