Originally posted by BahamutXero Should a [that’s “an,” by the way] immigrant be able to come in, start and restaurant, and have the power to hire people if he can’t even pronounce the names of people correctly?
Give me one single reason why not. If he started a restaurant, he has employees, meaning that he’s created jobs (which are scarce right now as it is). If he can pay those employees, he also has clients, which means he provides services to people. If he isn’t out of business yet, that means those people think those services are worth the money they pay for them. And if he’s in business, that means he probably pays his taxes, and thus contributes back to the country for whatever he took from it. Anyone who does honest work and pays his taxes is just as much of an American as you are, and is contributing to America just as much as you are. In what way does he not deserve the same rights as you?
The fact that he mispronounced some name has nothing to do with him “not accepting our culture.” It’s a simple mistake. For instance, native Japanese speakers who try to learn English have trouble pronouncing many English words because of the way their native language sounds. It would be sheer lunacy for one to try to say that because of that it somehow follows that they “don’t accept American culture,” when they’ve just made an effort to learn the language of that culture.
I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn’t
celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry
Christmas. Now it has to be Season’s Greetings. It’s not Christmas vacation, it’s Winter Break. Isn’t it amazing
how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We’ve gone so far the other way, bent over
backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being
offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
Oh. How hard it must be to go out of your way. Perhaps you arnt the majority anymore. Get used to that.
Originally posted by Kagon My god, I really can’t believe how pathetic our country is about languages. You go to almost any foreign country, and if you show that you’ve tried to learn the language past one of those stupid learn X in 2 days books, they’ll be impressed with you and help you out. Here, you’re yelled at because you can’t get something exactly right. Have you stepped back and realized what you’re even doing?
Word to that. I mean, seriously, people in other countries are FLATTERED that you make the effort to speak to them in their native language, rather than making them try to learn your language just because it’s the international language of business or whatever the fuck. If you think everybody in Germany speaks German, everybody in France speaks French, everyone in Holland speaks Dutch, you’re in for a rude awakening if you ever visit Europe.
Learning another language is fucking HARD. You should be flattered if a person goes through that, just to be able to speak to you and your fellow english-speakers. Demanding PERFECTION of someone else who’s trying to learn the language, frankly, is just selfish and ultimately completely unproductive. This person who set up the restaurant, and MILLIONS OF OTHERS LIKE HIM, have been the driving force for the American economy over the past century, and it’s just stupid to criticize him for something little like having trouble with English.
I’d just like to point out that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man wouldn’t be king, because they wouldn’t believe him and anyway they’d have superior hearing and sense of smell.
There is not a lot to say that hasn’t been said: Sinistral, Mazarim Taim and Sepiroth Katana have already posted. I agree with the lot of what they say.
From my ideological viewpoint this entire debate is silly, that is because I am of the opinion that countries and therefore boarders are silly.
And lastly, I have to say. If that is an editorial, I don’t want to see the readers’ letters. They wouldn’t even have printed that as that here: He should learn how to write English before he babbles on about it.
Using the same logic that the most spoken language should be the language everyone uses, then everyone should be forced to learn chinese. Considering how difficult a language that can be to learn, its absurd to say that because a few people in 1 place know a language and use it to do shit that anyone and everyone who comes needs to instantaneously learn it flawlessly (or rather, the dialect these individuals speak), is absurd.
You can say all you want but the fact remains that English is the dominant language in the busienss world today. I not saying it’s the only language that should be spoken as so on, I’m just stating fact.
I was wrong about the Greek manager. He hired my mom and didn’t want her to leave when she was scheduled to because it was so busy. I just found it weird that a business owner (I don’t care what his nationality was, he could be American for all I care), can open shop and not be able to communicate effectively with most of the population.
Foreigners should be able to do what they want. I totally agree. It just bugs me that immigrants expect Americans to greet them in open arms when their culture is totally different. Of course, they’re going to clash somewhat. I’m not saying everyone should convert to the same culture. That would be idealistic bu impossible. I’m just asking for them to be mindful of cultural references, language being a very big one.
Originally posted by BahamutXero I’m not saying everyone should convert to the same culture. That would be idealistic…
Excuse me if I find it a bit scary that you consider complete cultural assimilation to be the ideal, especially in a country which has always had a somewhat mixed culture.
Originally posted by BahamutXero It just bugs me that immigrants expect Americans to greet them in open arms when their culture is totally different…I’m just asking for them to be mindful of cultural references, language being a very big one.
But how is making an error in pronunciation equivalent to “expecting to be greeted in (sic) open arms”? It’s just a simple mistake. Hell, Americans themselves make that sort of mistake all the time.
Originally posted by Cybercompost Excuse me if I find it a bit scary that you consider complete cultural assimilation to be the ideal, especially in a country which has always had a somewhat mixed culture.
You are absolutely right. “Ideal” is far too strong a world. America itself doen’t have one culture so it would be impossible for an immigrant to blend into an “American” culture. Sure, Americans share many traditions but nobody is the same. This applies to all countries.
But how is making an error in pronunciation equivalent to “expecting to be greeted in (sic) open arms”? It’s just a simple mistake. Hell, Americans themselves make that sort of mistake all the time.
I’m sorry, that was a bad example. I should say mispronounciation by immigrants is a sign that one is trying to learn a language. My problem is when immigrants enter a country and plan on living the same way as they did in their mother country. It’s like going to Spain, without thinking about learning Spanish.
And so you ask people to be mindful of your culture when you’re not mindful of theirs on baseless grounds. Hypocrit.
Sin, I know I have tripped over my own words several times, who hasn’t? I try my hardest not to pass judgment on people with things they can’t control. Adjusting to another does take time, but the Greek manager I have mentioned has lived in the U.S. for years. I pointed out of his mispronounciation because of that. I would never pass judgement on someone because of their specific culture/language. I guess I don’t undersand what you mean by me being “not mindful of others’ cultures on baseless grounds”.
I’d just like to point out that I’m not the only one who has these feelings. This thread would have never existed if the author of the artile GG posted didn’t write it.
Originally posted by BahamutXero I’d just like to point out that I’m not the only one who has these feelings. This thread would have never existed if the author of the artile GG posted didn’t write it.
Originally posted by Tenchimaru_Draconis <img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> I’m pretty sure that somewhere out there in the world, someone smashed his genitals between two rocks.
Was it you TD? :mwahaha:
I only said that because it doen’t seem that anyone agrees with me besides the author.
That’s because you have, what, one point - the Greek manager one - that even you admit is a bad one.
The entire article is just poorly written, vague, and above all else its points unfounded in an attempt to instill some kind of collective mindframe with its usage of “we”.
Originally posted by BahamutXero
[b]Sin, I know I have tripped over my own words several times, who hasn’t? I try my hardest not to pass judgment on people with things they can’t control. Adjusting to another does take time, but the Greek manager I have mentioned has lived in the U.S. for years. I pointed out of his mispronounciation because of that. I would never pass judgement on someone because of their specific culture/language. I guess I don’t undersand what you mean by me being “not mindful of others’ cultures on baseless grounds”.
I’d just like to point out that I’m not the only one who has these feelings. This thread would have never existed if the author of the artile GG posted didn’t write it. [/b]
It’s no measure of health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick society. I don’t give a shit if a lot of people feel a certain way about something, it doesn’t mean they’re right. In the 30s and 40s, a lot of Germans thought Jews were a threat because people led them to believe Jews were a threat. Similarly, we have jackasses around the country spewing xenophobic bullshit about whoever becasue they’re misinformed, delusional, uneducated and/or are just plain assholes. Similarly, a lot of people have problems with genetically modified food, mostly because they’re misinformed or uneducated about the topic, and THAT is causing a lot of problems world wide. This is a game of politics, where a group of jerks are knocking on people who are different because they’re different. As shown in the few examples I referred to, its a lot of baseless bullshit. As I said in previous posts, not doubting one’s beliefs is bad and a lot of people have no doubts because they are happy believing what it is that they are given. Similarly, those people want to make sure that other people are like them and not question things blindly, thus removing choices (or attempting to), leading to conformism. In the land of the blind , the one eyed man is king 8P.
And just so you know, there is a bio-psychological reason as to why certain people can’t flawlessly learn languages; once you’re past childhood/early adolescence, you lose the ability to be able to formulate certain sounds and deal with certain types of learning, just like how a child who reachs early adolescence becomes capable of more abstract thinking (though the 2 are unrelated). The fact of the matter is, you don’t know that much about the Greek dude and though you don’t like how he doesn’t fit your standard, he still managed to learn english well enough to communicate, run a business and hire your mom to put food on your table. As others have put it, the difference is, if you go to Spain or Germany and you have your little handbook and you accidentally say you have 3 testicles when asking for a glass of water, they won’t jump down your throat. They might look a little confused at first, but they will recognize the fact that you were humble enough to try to adapt to the new conditions.
Originally posted by BahamutXero You are absolutely right. “Ideal” is far too strong a world. America itself doen’t have one culture so it would be impossible for an immigrant to blend into an “American” culture. Sure, Americans share many traditions but nobody is the same. This applies to all countries.
Okay, then you admit your arguments are all invalid.
I’d just like to point out that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man 
