I finally finished this game, after way WAY too many hours wasted on pointless, boring missions. Seriously, when 60% of the sidequests feature monsters harder than the final level, there’s something very wrong there. -_-
Anyway, in terms of the story… WHAT?
I’ve seen cryptic before (DoC was no Chrono Trigger) but this takes the cake. There are way too many questions here.
-What the heck was Genesis actually trying to do the whole time? A bishounen villain who quotes poetry all the time wasn’t very forthcoming on his plans.
-What happened in the dungeon in Banora? What exactly was that place? What was the “gift of the goddess” the statue was holding up? Why was Minerva shown for a few seconds? Why did Genesis’s deterioration stop? HUH?
-What is Cissnei’s real name? I imagine it’s probably something from Before Crisis, but you’d figure they’d throw us a bone here.
I really didn’t like how they retconned Zack’s death. The whole reason that Cloud unconsciously took over Zack’s life was because he was still confused and suffering from the Mako poison. In fact, the scene in FF7 where Tifa discovers Cloud at the train station clearly indicates that he’s still confused. In CC it seems that Cloud’s entirely sane by the time Zack dies, which throws the whole thing into doubt.
This way’s definitely more dramatic though. 8p I imagine they’d retcon that part of it too if they ever get around to that PS3 remake.
While I don’t intend to play the game, I have to say, I really liked the way Zack’s death wasn’t dramatic. It was really suitable for the way the setting worked. I really liked it.
I agree, because the death originally was supposed to be abrupt and brutal to highlight Cloud’s sense of powerlessness and mental confusion, and FF7’s generally dark nature . At least that’s what I always thought. If you retcon it so that Cloud has a new sense of determination because of a dying promise, how do you explain his attitude at the beginning of FF7?
Genesis goal was to apparently protect the Planet, as he revealed to Wiess before entering a deep rest. Genesis was actually reciting a poetic prophecy, the lines being step-by-step elements that put Genesis’ plan together.
The “Gift of the Goddess” is meant to be ambigous as the “secret of life”, but Genesis was apparently healed by the lifestream. Also notice the Banola Apples are a pun on both “life and death”.
As for Cloud, I think the “unconsciously taking over Zack’s life” may had been like FF7AC, collapsing in pain as the J-Cells work their magic when Cloud arrived to Midgar just before Tifa found him. Cloud’s grief over Zack may had played a part in this too.
Um, what?
To protect the planet? Don’t bring DoC into this, Genesis may be an entirely different character at that point, and he’s just as cryptic there in any case. I’m concerned with his goals in CC. (Some poking around has unearthed the fact that he’s only trying to stop his deterioration; he just happens to be very unhinged, and allied with a scientist who’s just as crazy.) And it’s said several times that LOVELESS is decades old or older; even Hojo’s familiar with it.
How are the Banora Apples a pun on “life and death”? Care to explain?
As for Cloud, I think the “unconsciously taking over Zack’s life” may had been like FF7AC, collapsing in pain as the J-Cells work their magic when Cloud arrived to Midgar just before Tifa found him. Cloud’s grief over Zack may had played a part in this too.
Ehh… I’m not convinced about that idea. The original way made much more sense. This way is just more dramatic.
The more I look into CC, the more I’m convinced there are huge plot holes in there, and many scenes are only there because they look cool.
Cidolfas: Well, Genesis is the same guy in DoC, but his goals are tied to “Minvera the goddess”(Secret boss in CC)
To get Genesis’ entire goaal, you’ll need a Ultimania of CC.
Well, to go on a cultural basis, apples had been defined in various myths, some with life(golden apples in Greek myth) and other with death(like the bible).
That’s not a pun. A pun is a play on words, not symbolism. And I’d rather not get too deep into the symbolism in any case.
As I’ve said before, Ultimania is not considered canon to me. I have no idea where they get half their information; it’s certainly not indicated anywhere in the game. And I’d only have an unofficial translation of that, too.
Cloud is still VERY confused by the time Zack dies. Although he’s slowly recovering, his brain functions are still not working at full capacity.
Genesis was trying to stop his deterioration. In the end, he got what he wanted, and Minerva made him regain his SOLDIER pride. Which is why he rejected Deepground and chose instead to seal himself away until the Planet needed him. Genesis has a strong connection with the planet and the Lifestream.
Cissnei has no real name, in actuality. I always assumed that ALL the Turks used aliases, but you could also say that her true name is whatever the crap you decide to name her in Before Crisis.
The dungeon in Banora was an underground facility beneath the apple factory where Shinra conducted heinous experiments (speculation: Project G?)
He’s lucid enough to realize that Zack died, and to have a conversation with him. It’s more farfetched that he suddenly reverted back to being a complete basket case by the time Tifa finds him.
Where did you get the fact that he “rejected” Deepground? I don’t remember seeing that anywhere.
Where did you see that Shinra conducted experiments here? I guess there’s the existence of those Makonoids and the jail area, but what about the huge statue and whatnot?
Cloud was NOT a complete basket case when he reunites with Tifa. He’s still acting funny and confused, but he was acting the same way when he was with Zack. Here’s the script from that scene for reference:
Tifa sees Cloud at the Train Station.
Guard: What’s the matter?
Cloud: Ohhh…
Guard: …poor kid.
Cloud: Ooouugh…
Tifa: Are you all right?
Cloud: Oo… uh… agh Uh… uh… Tifa…?
Tifa: …? Tifa! …? Oh, Cloud!
Cloud: That’s right. I’m Cloud.
Tifa: Is it really you, Cloud? I never thought I’d find you here!
Cloud: Yeah, it’s been a while.
Tifa: What happened to you? You don’t look well.
Cloud: …Yeah? It’s nothing. I’m okay.
Tifa: How long has it been?
Cloud: (after some shocks) Five years.
Tifa: …
Cloud: What is it?
Tifa: …it’s really been a long time. Actually, it’s been seven years. You got
your wish and joined SOLDIER, quit after the Sephiroth incident, and now you’re
a mercenary… You told me a lot about what happened after you left
Nibelheim… But… Something’s wrong. I felt there was something strange about
the things you talked about. All the things you didn’t know that you should.
And other things you shouldn’t know that you did… I wanted to make sure…
But then I heard… you were going far away… And I didn’t want that… …I
didn’t know what to do. So, I thought I need more time. And that’s why I told
you about the AVALANCHE job. I wanted to be with you, watch you.
My point being that he’s also lucid enough to recognize Tifa and have a conversation with her.
The Ultimania. But for some reason, you don’t accept official information.
The statue and the giant materia were a part of Genesis’s own personal reproduction of LOVELESS. The giant materia was also a goddess materia, which granted Genesis its power.
He only recovers after Tifa begins talking to him. My understanding is that that’s the point that all his memories converge on his fake identity. Before that he’s a basket case.
I accept official information. I don’t accept that Ultimania is official. It isn’t written by the same people who wrote the books. Just because it’s related to Square Enix (somewhat vaguely, nowadays) doesn’t help. I’ve seen a few too many contradictions to trust it exclusively.
How does that correspond with the “actual” goddess, Minerva? And why would he have to go there to do whatever it is he’s doing, communing with the Lifestream or whatever?
Just because Cloud’s moaning all weird-like doesn’t necessarily mean he’s more crazy than he was before.
The fact is that Square is never going to answer every question concerning a game’s plot. For example, the FF8 Ultimania states that the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory is false. Square didn’t put that in the game because they just didn’t expect people to think that. And how is the Ultimania NOT related to Square? It seems to me that their information could only be known if it was straight from the developers. After all, they have complex formulas concerning even gameplay that no normal person would be able to figure out. By the way, what contradictory info have you seen?
I can tell you that Genesis discovered the Banora underground when he was a little boy, and used it as his personal playground. The only other answers I can give you would be from the Ultimania.
EDIT: Oh, and the reason you can tell Shinra was using the underground…Did you read the blood writing on the walls of some of the cells? The cellmates talk about how they were kidnapped/captured and experimented on, etc…
Agreed… I don’t have proof that that’s the case, just my feeling from watching the scene. You can’t argue that Crisis Core has certainly changed some of the scenes from FF7 (Zack’s death was very different) so it isn’t unreasonable to say that that one may also have changed; it just doesn’t fall under the CC purview.
Certainly they won’t, but it’s rare that I can’t figure out practically everything from the game itself. I get suspicious when they start adding in backstory that’s completely nonevident from the game.
It seems to me that their information could only be known if it was straight from the developers.
Or some guy was commissioned to come up with some more backstory to flesh things out even though they were never meant to be in the game. The FFC limits itself to what’s evident in the game specifically to avoid that sort of thing. For example, the Ultimania comes up with whole swathes of events that happen between FF7 and AC which aren’t mentioned or referenced anywhere. Another problem with the Ultimania is that since it’s never been released in English, there’s yet another block between me and the “official” information since it’s an unofficial fan translation, which we try to avoid. Hence the lack of info on FFU: After.
I don’t recall all the individual contradictions I saw, but I do remember one of them was the timeline they provided linking FF12 and FF Tactics which contradicted a Clan Primer entry in FF12.
The ‘swathes of events’ that occur between FF7 and AC were all from On the Way to a Smile, I’m assuming. Which were translated to English, and also released with certain editions of AC. So I’m pretty sure they’re considered canon.
Tifa: …it’s really been a long time. Actually, it’s been seven years. You got
your wish and joined SOLDIER, quit after the Sephiroth incident, and now you’re
a mercenary… You told me a lot about what happened after you left
Nibelheim… But… Something’s wrong. I felt there was something strange about
the things you talked about. All the things you didn’t know that you should.
And other things you shouldn’t know that you did… I wanted to make sure…
But then I heard… you were going far away… And I didn’t want that… …I
didn’t know what to do. So, I thought I need more time. And that’s why I told
you about the AVALANCHE job. I wanted to be with you, watch you.
Wait. What? She meets a dazed Cloud in a train yard after seven years and she just BLURTS ALL THAT OUT? WORST exposition I’ve seen in a while!
::dekar!::
The ‘swathes of events’ that occur between FF7 and AC were all from On the Way to a Smile, I’m assuming. Which were translated to English, and also released with certain editions of AC.
Eh what? What versions of AC? It’s definitely not on my version. O_o
And On the Way to a Smile was released with the limited edition box set of AC (which, incidentally, I don’t have). It was also released with most Japanese versions and also in V-Jump, although neither of those are American.