Faith...in what? (very angsty)

The Core RPGC Main Forum
41

I’m not sure what to say, but I think I should say somthing anyway.

I’m about in the same boat as Aldred, thinking and thinking about my faith in God. I think having faith and religious belief is a basicaly good thing, you’re trying to know yourself and improve upon yourself through study and reflection. From my experience the basic idea is to love other people, meaning don’t fuck them over, even if they deserve it.

I’ve come to terms with why bad things happen to people for the most part. We have free will, we can do what we want, when we want it, but because of that we can’t be happy all the time without being compleatly controled by God. I like having emotion, being sad, angry, depressed, happy, it makes me feel human. I don’t mind having painful experiences since in the end I always end up learning more about myself and my faith from them. When I put things into perspective, I realize that I am one luck bastard. Why do I have something to eat while others starve? Thousands upon thousands of people died by being crushed by a wave. People from my own country are dieing in a war that we shouldn’t even be fighting in. Here I am drinking a coke talking to people hundreds or thousands of miles away from me about religion on a computer. How is this fair? Is this the result of free will?

In a religion class in high school, we studied the book of Job for almost a whole simester. In the story a man named Job loves God and is blessed with a nice house and farm, many sons and daughters, money and a wife. Later his family dies, his farm becomes barren and his body is covered with sores. Instead of cursing God, he prays, and still loves God. In the end, because of his faith, he gets twice as many sons and daughters, a larger farm, and twice as much of what he had before. Why would God let a man with such fail suffer in the first place? Why would he allow such a good person to feel such pain? Well, there isn’t really an answer. We can think its because we have free will. We can also thing it was God testing Job. We can also think that God isn’t as powerful as we thing God is, and he can’t control everything that happens to us. Its hard to tell what one is right.

This is what I think:

  1. We’re pretty much on our own with this whole living thing. We can learn things from studying the bible (yes the bible is imperfect, but we can still learn from it obviously), we can pray and ask God for guidence but in all were responsible for what happens to us.

  2. Natural disasters are not acts of God. They are horrible things, people shouldn’t have to experience them, but they do. The best thing that comes out of them is that people band togeather and get through it.

  3. I don’t know why children are allowed to die so young though, whether in natural disasters, of starvation, or of terminal illnesses.

  4. Suffering is apart of life, it makes us human, it makes us think, it makes us live.

  5. God loves everyone, no matter what

This is what I think, I believe in a higher being, but the thought of the afterlife scares me when I think about it. Living forever in paradise, or nothing at all, freaky to think about either of those.

If someone told me that they knew for sure there was no afterlife, I wouldn’t change the way I live. If God didn’t exhist I wouldn’t change how I live. You can learn a lot of advice about living life from the bible and going to church. I don’t see it as getting into heaven or converting people, I see it as a way to be a good/nice/active person in your community.

When I think about the Crusades, and everything that is wrong with Christinanity (blah blah, gay marriage, blah blah sex, blah blah, current rules for becomeing a priest, blah blah, condoms, blah blah ect.) I realize that there will always be people exploiting religion for some reason, and there will always be people who trample over tons and tons of other stories in the bible, just to persicute a group of people who violated one. I guess you just have to deal with that shit and go with what you have found out from the bible with study. I’d like to think God would like a man who thinks things over rather then someone who blindly follows something.

Thats the stuff, I’m glad for writing this. This is quite a good thread.

And with kosher pickles, I’m sure there are laws with what the brine is made of, and a rabai probly has to inspect the pickling plant periodicly.

42

In the Marines were aren’t told about God and how it is in service to him. We also aren’t told that we are tools of the government. Instead, love of the Corps and Country are taught. Taught how to love the Marine Corps and the country. The country that holds those dear to you.

Instead of God, you may want to find something that is dear to you. Something you’d be willing to fight for. Take pride in what you’re doing. I got lucky and joined before Iraq was much of an issue and I don’t have a kid on the way and I’m not in the serious relationship that you are. However, I found that just doing something I like (doing military stuff) and also stronger feelings for the guys I work with. Don’t think so much about dying over there. If you think about death or possible deployments, it’ll drive you insane. Think about the family you’ll be protecting, your new family with your platoon and unit, the lives you’ll be saving by making the place better. Just think, after a couple of months in country, you’ll be back home and have a bunch of money for your family. Also, there are ways to stay back if you have a kid being born.

A friend of mine was sent back from Iraq very early since his wife had a baby. Another was sent back because his daughter had a seisure. Another guy I know was held back completely for his kid. Also, depending on what place you are in your training (it sounds like you havent even been to boot camp), you could easily miss a possible deployment like I did. So there is hope.

43

Without suffering there would be no meter with which to guage happiness. It’s not cruel. It’s necessary.

44

What is important to remember about the Bible is - and this is painful - is that it has been translated, re-translated and revised through the hundreds of years it has existed.

In my Swedish writing group this autumn, we were given a passage from the Bible to read, about when Moses comes down from the mountain with the Ten Commandements. None of us being very Christian, we could all agree on that it was a nasty surprise when after recounting the Commandements, Moses started going on about crushing the enemies of Israel’s children and exterminate all who opposed them.

“This does not go along with anything I’ve been taught about Christianity in my life,” said one of my classmates.

“True,” said the teacher, “this is what we need to discuss. Now that you’ve read the text, look at it from a distance. Suddenly the speech changes from recounting morals of living, to acts of war. It clashes. Now, think about the time when the Bible was put together in the first place. Were Israel or Christianity at war with somebody? Who gave the Bible to the people who desperately needed to hear the word of God? The leaders of the country of course. And what they did want? To justify the war at the time?”

Does this mean that the whole Bible is political propaganda? No. It is far more complex than that. Some things might have been corrupted, but if all of it had been then we would have been brought up far more cruel than we are. The passage about Moses was easy to pick out because it clashed with the rest of the message.

But I do think that the Bible is far too old to be taken word for word, especially with the revisions and new translations. However, the core message is still there.

I can’t claim to be a believer. I’m still trying to come to terms with what I believe - and so far, it’s nothing specific even if I want to believe that there is something watching over us, and people have given it different names throughout history. Wicca influenced, maybe.

One thing about that, though. When I was sixteen I had a long-term depression and was absolutely terrified of death. I couldn’t even sleep at night because I just laid there being horrified. Mum eventually told me “Recite ‘Our Father’, and it’ll get better.” And you know what, it did.

I think that if there is a God, He’s an artist. Just look at any sunset. I might be able to look up things about light particles and sunbeams playing with our eyes as the Earth turns on its axis, but even so I don’t have to believe that that’s all there is to it.

45

Over the past three weeks these Jehovah Witnesses are trying to convert me to christianity. I tell them I like my religion and while I respect them I will not change because of them, I’ll change on my own. Then we talked about peace and war. I told them that my feelings are that in God, Kami, Zeus, or whoever you believe in may exist, but not in battle. They cannot bleed your blood or die your death. Claming to have the protection of your god is somewhat foolish. You can ask for luck just so you can live the next day. I’ll post more later I got to go now.

46

Oh yes, I thought of something more.

I firmly believe in the theory of evolution. In my view there isn’t anything else that can explain how we ended up like we are today.

So, I don’t believe that God created everything during a week, nor that Ra or anybody else raised this world from chaos.

However. If I recall correctly, all life evolved from bacteria, that developed in puddles of far back ancient mud. But even bacteria, that seems able to sprout up from anywhere - it has to come from somewhere in the beginning, right? Nothing can come out of nothing, especially not life. Was there a will that made the bacteria? I don’t know. But it makes more sense the more you think about it.

47

Geesh, gimme a chance to talk about the kosher pickles! 8p

Basically, kashrus is an incredibly complicated subject. There are rabbis whose job, all day every day, is to ensure that the laws are met in a single particular place. Essentially, not only do the ingredients have to adhere to the laws of kashrus, so does the equipment used to make the ingredients. If I have a machine that I use to make pork rinds, and then I turn around and use it to dip cucumbers in vinegar, that’s a big no-no.

The truth is, while there might be no problem at all with non-kosher pickles, the fact is that for the brand of pickles you’re looking at, they haven’t gotten a rabbi to look over their plant and give them a stamp of approval. Until that happens, we assume they’re not kosher.

I wanted to address one thing 984 said a while back about Jewish Hell: No, it’s not the absence of God. It’s actually more of a purgatory, where people atone for their sins. And the literature says that no one can ever stay there for more than 11 months, after which they’re admitted into Heaven.

48

I was told that Jehovah Witnesses aren’t “real” Christians, in the sense that Mormons aren’t Christians either…hmm. This was told to me by a real Christian :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

49

All I have to say is this. I’m not going to read what anyone else says, 'cause it’s not important to me.

  1. I believe God exists, but I don’t believe he interferes anymore.
  2. Whether or not the Devil exists doesn’t matter, as either way he can’t affect us.
  3. Sometimes, things just happen.
    And 4) A lot of the Bible probably is fiction, but the one message I take out of it is this: Love yourself; love thy neighbour as you love yourself and love thy God.
    It makes me happy to do this last one, so I’m not going to stop, even if I stop believing in God.
    And I believe in the third one most vehemetly.
    Oh, and one other thing, Nature is neither good nor evil, it is simply horribly indifferent.
50

:hahaha;

They told me that they are the real christians and eveyone else wasn’t. :thud:

To continue I told them that I feel that religions are like countries. You can choose which ones you want to ally to, defect to or not ally to ally to any. This is flawed I know but it’s my way to keep neutral. I honestly feel that there has to be more than one god (Polythism). They told me that the bible is history and fact and I countered with: Maybe, but most unlikely. Religion is a tricky subject. Bob Avakain once said these two things. One was: “If you believe what the bible says then god is no better then Dracula.” He went on to talk about Vlad the Impaler and compairing that to some stories in the bible. The second was on having a relationship with god. About its dangerious for people with power to beleive this. Bob quoted someone else, I forget who, but he said “Ever seen the movie the exorcist. It would of gone a lot faster if the preacher was black. (I hope I don’t offened anyone) The black preacher would say: ‘You know god, there’s a person here that’s posessed. I know you busy, I checked your schedule but th devil is just acting a motherfucking fool! I was wondering if you could exorcize this motherfucker to Cleveland someplace.’” Religion is a power. For good or for evil that depends on people. But is religion really divine if it’s up to people? I ask that alot. Do I get a good answer? Not really.

51

"I SUPPOSE that the man who reads this article is convinced that this world is formed with intelligence, and that a little astronomy and anatomy suffices to make this universal and supreme intelligence admired.

Can he know by himself if this intelligence’ is omnipotent, that is to say, infinitely powerful? Has he the least notion of the infinite, to understand what is an infinite power?

The celebrated historian philosopher, David Hume, says in " Particular Providence ‘’ : ‘’ A weight of ten ounces is lifted in a balance by another weight; therefore this other weight is of more than ten ounces; but one can adduce no reason why it should weigh a hundred ounces."

One can say likewise: You recognize a supreme intelligence strong enough to form you, to preserve you for a limited time, to reward you, to punish you. Do you know enough of this power to demonstrate that it can do still more?

How can you prove by your reason that this being can do more than he has done?

The life of all animals is short. Could he make it longer?

All animals are the prey of each other: everything is born to be devoured. Could he form without destroying?

You do not know what nature is. You cannot therefore know if nature has n0t forced him to do only the things he has done.

This globe is only a vast field of destruction and carnage. Either the great Being has be en able to make of it an eternal abode of delight for all sentient beings, or He has not been able. If He has been able and if He has not done so, fear to regard Him as malevolent; but if He has not been able, fear not to lock on Him as a very great power, circumscribed by nature in His limits.

Whether or no His power is infinite does not regard you. It is a matter of indifference to a subject whether his master possesses five hundred leagues of land or five thousand ; lie is subject neither more nor less.

Which would be the greater insult to this ineffable Being, to say: "He has made miserable men without being able to dispense with them, or He has made them for His pleasure? "

Many sects represent Him as cruel; others, for fear of admitting a wicked God, have the audacity to deny His existence. Is it not better to say that probably the necessity of His nature and the necessity of things have determined everything?

The world is the theatre of moral ill and physical ill; one is only too aware of it: and the " All is good " of Shaftesbury, Bolingbroke and Pope, is only a witty paradox, a poor joke.

The two principles of Zarathustra and Manes, so carefully scrutinized by Bayle, are a still poorer joke. They are, as has been observed already, ThIolires two doctors, one of whom says to the other: " Grant me the emetic, and I will grant you the bleeding." Manichaeism js absurd; and that is why it has had so many supporters.

I admit that I have not been enlightened by all that Bayle says about the Manichaeans and the Paulicians. That is controversy; I would have preferred pure philosophy. Why discuss our mysteries beside Zarathustra’s? As soon as you dare to treat of our mysteries, which need only faith and no reasoning, you open precipices for yourself.

The trash in our scholastic theology has nothing to do with the trash in Zarathustra’s reveries.

Why debate original sin with Zarathustra? There was never any question of it save in St. Augustine’s time. Neither Zarathustra nor any legislator of antiquity had ever heard speak of it.

If you dispute with Zarathustra, put under lock and key the old and the new Testaments which he did not know, and which one must revere without desiring to explain them.

What then should I have said to Zarathustra? My reason cannot admit two gods who fight, that is good only in a poem where Minerva quarrels with Mars. My feeble reason is much more content with a single great Being, whose essence was to make, and who has made all that nature has permitted Him, than it is satisfied with two great Beings, one of whom spoils the works of the other. Your bad principle Ahriman, has not been able to upset a single one of the astrdnomical and physical laws of the good principle Ormuzd; everything progresses in the heavens with the greatest regularity. Why should the wicked Ahriman have had power over this little globe of the world?

If I had been Ahriman, I should have attacked Ormuzd in his fine grand provinces of so many suns and stars. I should not have limited myself to making war on him in a little village.

There is much evil in this village: but whence have you the knowledge that this evil is not inevitable?

You are forced to admit an intelligence diffused over the universe; but (i) do you know, for instance, if this power reaches right to foreseeing the future ? You have asserted it a thousand times; but you have never been able either to prove it, or to understand it. You cannot know how any being whatever sees what is not. Well, the future is not; therefore no being can see it. You are reduced to saying that He foresees it; but foreseeing is conjecturing. This is the opinion of the Socinians.

Well, a God who, according to you, conjectures, can be mistaken. In your system He is really mistaken; for if He had foreseen tbat His enemy would poison all His works here below, He would not have produced them; He would not have prepared for Himself the shame of being continually vanquished.

(2) Do I not do Him much more honour by saying that He has made everything by the necessity of His nature, than you do Him by raising an enemy who disfigures, who soils, who destroys all His- works here below?

(3) It is not to have an unworthy idea of God to say that, having formed thousands of millions of worlds where death and evil do not dwell, it was necessary that evil and death should dwell in this world.

(4) It is not to disparage God to say that He could not form man without giving him self-esteem; that this selfesteem could not lead him without misguiding him almost always; that his passions are necessary, but that they are disastrous; that propagation cannot be executed without desire; that desire cannot animate man without quarrels; that these quarrels necessarily bring wars in their train, etc.

(5) When he sees part of the combinations of the animal, vegetable and mineral kingdoms, and this globe pierced everywhere like a sieve, from which escape in crowds so many exhalations, what philosopher will be bold enough, what scholastic foolish enough to see clearly that nature could stop the effects of volcanoes, the inelemencies of the atmosphere, the violence of the winds, the plagues, and all the destructive scourges?

(6) One must be very powerful, very strong, very industrious, to have formed lions which devour bulls, and to have produced men who invent arms to kill at one blow, not only bulls and lions, but even each other. One must be very powerful to have caused to be born spiders which spin webs to catch flies; but that is not to be omnipotent, infinitely powerful.

(7) If the great Being had been infinitely powerful, there is no reason why He should not have made sentient animals infinitely happy; He has not done so, therefore He was not able.

(8) All thb sects of the philosophers have stranded on the reef of moral and physical ill. It only remains to avow that God having acted for the best has not been able to act better.

(9) This necessity settles all the difficulties and finishes all the disputes. We have not the impudence to say–" All is good." We say–" All is the feast bad that is possible."

(10) Why does a child often die in its mother’s womb? Why is another who has had the misfortune to be born, reserved for torments as long as his life, terminated by a frightful death?

Why has the source of life been poisoned all over the world since the discovery of America? why since the seventh century of our era does smallpox carry off the eighth part of the human race? why since all time have bladders been subject to being stone quarries? why the plague, war, famine, the inquisition? Turn in every direction, you will find no other solution than that everything has been necessary.

I speak here to philosophers only and not to theologians. We know well that faith is the thread in the labyrinth. We know that the fall of Adam and Eve, original sin, the immense power given to the devil, the predilection accorded by the great Being to the Jewish people, and the baptism substituted for the amputation of the prepuce, are the answers which explain everything. We have argued only against Zarathustra and not against the university of Conimbre or Coimbre, to which we submit in our articles. " - on Power and Omnipotence, The Philosophical Dictionary, Voltaire.

52

What setz said didn’t hurt me. Probably just his way of saying “I read but you’re pissed, dunno what to say.”

Not really. I read it, had fun reading it too. But I don’t have much to say. Even if I said it, someone’d just shut my opinion down as it has happened many times in the past.

Until you stop stealing from mommy and daddy your moral input isn’t requred. Shut up, and go gag on a horse.

It’s not my fault I have to steal.

Setz, shut the fuck up, you don’t need to be a little prick. That’s really stupid to say that after someone has written up something that they really mean. Go back to your snowboarding.

Hey, fuck you. I don’t give a shit if it was stupid. When I first read the title; I thought of that quote. If you want to say shit to me; do it in PMs.

53

It’s not my fault I have to steal.

It is. It is always your fault because it’s your choice. You made the choice for something you wanted, as opposed to something you needed. I’m shooting down what you said about anything else, but it pisses me off when people can’t accept responsiblitly for the choices they make.

54

They told me that they are the real christians and eveyone else wasn’t.
The fact of the matter is this: Jehovah’s Witnesses are fucking deluded and always will be.

Jehova’s witnesses don’t consider Jesus Christ the messiah, and don’t derive their religion from anything he said or did. In fact, their religion is so fucking manufactured that it holds about as much water as scientology. It was basically a group of guys shitting out dogma at their OWN whim.

55

Is it truly my fault I don’t get money? I mean, sure; my fault for not having a job. But let’s scratch that. If I was unable to get a job; and recieved no money, whatsoever, of any form/way. Stealing was the answer in my case.

Seriously, if this is about me saying Ireland is not a real country, then just say it is. =/

56

I can understand if you were homeless, but man come on :stuck_out_tongue:

57

Yeah, I realize that Cid, I found a pretty good source about the topic. I was guessing that it probably just meaned something along the lines of the pickles tasted like what a traditional jewish pickle tasted like, because a lot of things get named kosher just because they’re traditional jewish foods rather then actually being kosher.

58

Well came across a good article for you to read Aldred.
It deals with why the innocent suffer.

In addition a quote I heard once sums it up best
“God created everything, everything includes evil”.

59

Well, actually in places with high Jewish concentration, it’s pretty much illegal to call something kosher unless it’s been certified as such. It’s like saying that a product is organic when it’s not, or that it’s sugar-free when it’s not.

60

God created everything, everything includes evil

I said something like that. They say Satan is the father of all lies. Well God is the father of all. He created Satan. So technically, he is the father of all lies. And everything else.