Yeah, I think its pretty obvious WHY someone would travel back in time. 
Why it was possible, perhaps.
Originally posted by Evangelion
Why it was possible, perhaps.
That would be “how.”
I knew I’d get that response, heh. But no there’s a subtle difference…it was possible because…the world needed to be saved (this is just a general example). That does not explain “how” it happened, it explained “why” it happened see? I hope that wasn’t too confusing…it sounds right in my head:ah-ha!:
Like I said before:
Originally posted by Me
Hardly. There was very little “speculation” left in Chrono Trigger at all, really. The only possible speculation that I can think of would be the ins and outs of the time travel - of which is completly irrelevent in the first place.
Why they were time traveling is aptly explained through the course of the game. If you really need to know “how” they were time traveling, they were traveling through a group of pre-existing “gates” created by the Mammon Machine when it was destroyed. Remember, Janus is transported back in time by the over flow of energy generated by the Mammon Machine - at least that’s all I can think of.
Originally posted by Sorcerer
they were traveling through a group of pre-existing “gates” created by the Mammon Machine when it was destroyed. Remember, Janus is transported back in time by the over flow of energy generated by the Mammon Machine - at least that’s all I can think of.
I so completely missed that. I’ve read thorough CT analysis and all of them failed to explain the cause of the gates, which backs up my earlier comment about “even when Lavos was defeated nobody knows who created the gates/twilight zone music” so now I feel quite stupid.
Yeah the Mammon Machine DID do it:fungah:
Wasn’t there an ending where someone was going on about “So…who made those gates?” and hinting at a sort of deus ex machina type force and I thought that was left open for interpretation…I never really paid much attention to the fact that the MM could have been behind the gates.
The Epoch didn’t appear to use the gates. The telepod seemed to create its own gate. Plus, the nature of the gates themselves isn’t clear, since they aren’t fixed in time (they move forward minute-by-minute, like the characters do).
Originally posted by Evangelion
[b]I so completely missed that. I’ve read thorough CT analysis and all of them failed to explain the cause of the gates, which backs up my earlier comment about “even when Lavos was defeated nobody knows who created the gates/twilight zone music” so now I feel quite stupid.Yeah the Mammon Machine DID do it:fungah:
Wasn’t there an ending where someone was going on about “So…who made those gates?” and hinting at a sort of deus ex machina type force and I thought that was left open for interpretation…I never really paid much attention to the fact that the MM could have been behind the gates. [/b]
Mammon Machine energy = Lavos
Which brings me back to the point of- when lavos was defeated, the gates continued to function.
Originally posted by Evangelion
Which brings me back to the point of- when lavos was defeated, the gates continued to function.
Meaning that neither the Mammon Machine nor Lavos were behind the gates.
Well then why did you say
Originally posted by ahkeeyuu
Mammon Machine energy = Lavos
To make the point that the Mammon Machine is not causing the gates.
Well why do you think that when Lavos was defeated, the gates had to disappear?
I think we can call the Telepod a mini-mammon machine, based solely on the fact that it had the capacity to tap into the time gates, something that (as far as we know) was something only the Mammon Machine had achieved in the past, and later the Epoch. I think it’s safe to assume that all time travel technology is shares a similar design to the Mammon Machine, while the Epoch and Telepod only tap into existing gates.
It is assumed that the Epoch utilized the Mammon Machine/Lavos energy to generate it’s own time gates, in a manner similar to the Mammon Machine and the Telepod. The only question that remains is what gates where created where, when and by what/whome. Janus and the 3 Gurus were all teleported; Janus went to 600 A.D. (Mystic Mountains? Or was it at the spot of the present day Millenium Fair? I think it’s the latter.), Melchior went to 1000 AD (Mystic Village), The guy whose name escapes me but created the Epoch went to the future(The Lab south of Death Mountain) and Gasper went to the End of Time. So that is 3 gates right there - 600 AD, 1000 AD and the Future. Lavos crashes into Magus’s Castle creating a gate to the prehistoric era. The reptilian dude summons Lavos to the Reptite Castle and Lavos creates a gate to Zeal.
That’s all the time period. In case you’re wondering why there are 9 gates and only 5 time periods is because there are multiple gates in some of the time eras.
Get it?
Ahhkeeyuu: The Mammon Machine ran off of Lavos energy. It did create the gates, and it used Lavos energy, not the other way around.
Originally posted by Sorcerer
[b]Well why do you think that when Lavos was defeated, the gates had to disappear?I think we can call the Telepod a mini-mammon machine, based solely on the fact that it had the capacity to tap into the time gates, something that (as far as we know) was something only the Mammon Machine had achieved in the past, and later the Epoch. I think it’s safe to assume that all time travel technology is shares a similar design to the Mammon Machine, while the Epoch and Telepod only tap into existing gates.
It is assumed that the Epoch utilized the Mammon Machine/Lavos energy to generate it’s own time gates, in a manner similar to the Mammon Machine and the Telepod. The only question that remains is what gates where created where, when and by what/whome. Janus and the 3 Gurus were all teleported; Janus went to 600 A.D. (Mystic Mountains? Or was it at the spot of the present day Millenium Fair? I think it’s the latter.), Melchior went to 1000 AD (Mystic Village), The guy whose name escapes me but created the Epoch went to the future(The Lab south of Death Mountain) and Gasper went to the End of Time. So that is 3 gates right there - 600 AD, 1000 AD and the Future. Lavos crashes into Magus’s Castle creating a gate to the prehistoric era. The reptilian dude summons Lavos to the Reptite Castle and Lavos creates a gate to Zeal.
That’s all the time period. In case you’re wondering why there are 9 gates and only 5 time periods is because there are multiple gates in some of the time eras.
Get it?
Ahhkeeyuu: The Mammon Machine ran off of Lavos energy. It did create the gates, and it used Lavos energy, not the other way around. [/b]
The gate at Leene Square was created when Marle stepped into the Telepod with the Zeal pendant around her neck. The Pendant and the Mammon Machine are both made from Dreamstone. That is how the Leene Square/Mystic Mt. Gate was formed. And Lavos made 5 Gates. One for Janus(600 AD), Melchior(1000 AD), Belthasar (2300 AD), one for Gaspar (End of Time) and one for Schala(Tesseract).
Originally posted by Sorcerer
Well why do you think that when Lavos was defeated, the gates had to disappear? .
I believe it was said or at least hinted at in the game that if they destroyed Lavos, then the gates would disappear and things would resume to normal…something like this. I think this took place with Marle Crono and Lucca in 2300 AD in one of those domes before they went to Proto.
And then in one of the endings, Marle or Lucca or someone mentioned the fact that they were confused because Lavos was gone but the gates were still active (thus giving the fact that something unknown might have been the cause)
Originally posted by ahkeeyuu
The gate at Leene Square was created when Marle stepped into the Telepod with the Zeal pendant around her neck. The Pendant and the Mammon Machine are both made from Dreamstone. That is how the Leene Square/Mystic Mt. Gate was formed. And Lavos made 5 Gates. One for Janus(600 AD), Melchior(1000 AD), Belthasar (2300 AD), one for Gaspar (End of Time) and one for Schala(Tesseract).
You basically just said the same thing I did, save for Schala, whome I forgot about.
…Then the Entity caused the gates. Isn’t that what everyone basically said at the campfire scene? That it had to be some sort of entity that is opening the gates for them and bringing them through time…?
I think that’s near the truth, yet a quite a ways from it.
Think, the Mammon Machine’s energy only powers up the gates, but maybe it doesn’t make the connection between times. I think, perhaps, it’s something else. I think the only real event I have to back this up is when Lucca goes through a gate and can change time to save her mother from losing her ability to walk. Why would this entity bother doing this? Perhaps, it’s a person’s own desires that cause them to be teleported somewhere. When the party was teleported to the future, they were desperate to escape from the Guardia’s soldiers, when they found a gate in the future, they wanted to return to their own time; which they did. When Lucca wanted to save her mother, the gate reacted to her desire, and brought her there. Maybe there is no “pure potential”, but actually, as the Red Knife is also, just a person or thing that is the product of the people’s hopes and dreams. The Tesseract transcends time because it’s not bound by the same rules and philosophies because it doesn’t exist on the same plane of existence. So an alternate theory might be (like someone else said) that Schala opened the time gates for everyone because she was using the connection between her, Lavos, and the Mammon machine since Lavos’ energy is what fuels the machine.
Originally posted by ahkeeyuu
The gate at Leene Square was created when Marle stepped into the Telepod with the Zeal pendant around her neck. The Pendant and the Mammon Machine are both made from Dreamstone.
That raises the question of whether someone with the pendant could use it to create a gate from anywhere in the timeline. To me, it seems that the answer is yes.
Originally posted by Mullenkamp
[b]…Then the Entity caused the gates. Isn’t that what everyone basically said at the campfire scene? That it had to be some sort of entity that is opening the gates for them and bringing them through time…?I think that’s near the truth, yet a quite a ways from it.
Think, the Mammon Machine’s energy only powers up the gates, but maybe it doesn’t make the connection between times. I think, perhaps, it’s something else. I think the only real event I have to back this up is when Lucca goes through a gate and can change time to save her mother from losing her ability to walk. Why would this entity bother doing this? Perhaps, it’s a person’s own desires that cause them to be teleported somewhere. When the party was teleported to the future, they were desperate to escape from the Guardia’s soldiers, when they found a gate in the future, they wanted to return to their own time; which they did. When Lucca wanted to save her mother, the gate reacted to her desire, and brought her there. Maybe there is no “pure potential”, but actually, as the Red Knife is also, just a person or thing that is the product of the people’s hopes and dreams. The Tesseract transcends time because it’s not bound by the same rules and philosophies because it doesn’t exist on the same plane of existence. So an alternate theory might be (like someone else said) that Schala opened the time gates for everyone because she was using the connection between her, Lavos, and the Mammon machine since Lavos’ energy is what fuels the machine. [/b]
Does this mean that Schala could possibly be considered the first Chrono Trigger then? Think about it…the CT is a powerful soul that has an effect on the fabric of time itself. Schala was the only one who could control the energy of the MM. Thus it’s possible that she could create Gates at each location/time. And she also has the ability to seal Gates. Crono would then be the second CT, and Serge would be the third. Either that or Schala is the Entity.
The Time Egg is the pure potential. It created a time freeze so that Crono could be brought back. Also, a Time Egg created a Gate to the Tesseract so that Serge could fight the Time Devourer(not the fused Dragon God).
from the ending:
Lucca: I thought Lavos made the gates…But I guess I was wrong.Marle: What do you mean?
Lucca: I think a greater force wanted us to experience those events.
Marle: Time travel… How exhausting!
It wouldn’t be fitting if Lavos were responsible for a story like Chrono Trigger.
Xwing1056
P.S. I feel like I remember one character saying, during the ending, something like “I think the Entity we were talking about is satisfied now.” However, when I beat the game using an RPGClassics save state to check, nobody said it. I also noticed that, in the save state, Lara hadn’t been rescued from the machine, nor the Chancellor from the chest (Pierre speaks instead of him, when that happens). Could it be that this major dialogue only occurs if you’ve accomplished every subquest?