And it’s my point of view that your point of view is garbage. I however won’t argue it, because it’s my humble opinion and I know what the outcome would inevitably be if I did so.
Faith enlightens people and gives them something to put their faith in, real or not. Religion is a mass-murdering lie that teaches Appeal to Authority morality, discourages thinking for oneself, and causes more of the world’s problems than anything else. Or is at least used as a backing for them.
This is a completely arbitrary and ridiculous statement. I doubt Buddhists would argue that their religion isn’t a religion (it is) or that it’s a mass-murdering lie. Stop taking Christianity as a basis for all religions everywhere. Christianity has made mistakes, and will continue making them, just as democracy, fascism, socialism, communism, etc. have/are.
Second, the Bible nowhere says ‘thou shalt not kill PEOPLE’ it says ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ so it seems, if you’d be up for those who cannot defend themselves, why aren’t you standing up for animals? Unless you’re a vegan, they’re a lot of rationalization (or, dare it be said, hypocrisy) in that reasoning.
The word for killing animals is “slaughter”, not “murder”.
Oh, and I think Sin would be more intent than action. Being damned to hell for all eternity for killing a guy to save the lives of hundreds would pretty stupid, as, even, would killing a guy for self defense.
It depends. Killing someone, even to save others’ lives, still (so to speak) makes a “mark” on your soul and can arguably still be called a sin. Ask anyone who’s been in a war where they were entirely convinced they were right - the nightmares don’t go away.
Shaving (19:27)
Rabbits (11:6)
Shellfish (11:10)
Gardens (19:19)
Just like to point out that all these things are indeed forbidden to us Jews to some extent. Except for gardens, what on earth are you talking about? The verse describes not planting two plants immediately together (e.g. grafting them); if they’re next to each other it’s fine.
Just to complete my mood of insufferable smugness, I think that Christianity cotton-picks what it believes and doesn’t believe from the Old Testament. Us folks have a much more specific and rigorous methodology of relating everyday life to Scripture.
Leviticus has an awful lot of things that are obsurd, like giving guidelines for ritual sacrifice, and forbidding wearing the garmets of the opposite gender to name a few. It’s not strange to think that people would disregard certian aspects they don’t agree with (or even know exists in many cases), but then if that is so, how loyal are they being to the faith if they believe it was derived from that text?
Jesus said he did not come to build up but to destroy, to tear down, to pit father against son. No one said being a Christian, especially a Catholic Christian is an easy path.
Much lke the Jedi (okay I’m a dweeb because of this) we have a strict set of rules. Rules help people. The Church doesn’t expect us just to follow and not question, if it did, it would have never grown and matured.
Those without religion can call my point of view pointless and garbage all they like, but I’m happy, I’ve found a path that brings me joy, can you say the same? Or do you keep going to this thing and that, because your bored? If that’s the case, that’s not joy.
Why am I anti-abortion? Why am I anti-euthanasia? Why am I anti everything that the world right now seems to be very much for? Because being a disabled person, with a touch of Palsy, and some autism, I can see history repeating, and the government bringing me to my death, because I don’t seem to to be revelent to society.
Yes, I can say the same, and I can also say I could never and will never find joy or respect in a belief that preaches intolerance.
I’m sure the same can be said about Reformed Judaism.
Christianity, however, has one of Paul’s letters as part of its religious canon stating that the new covenant in Christ means Christians don’t have to adhere to the old Jewish laws. However, there’s the addendum to not act ina manner which may cause another man’s faith to falter. Then another passage, I want to say in one of the Timothys, states that good works follow from slavation, so those saved will be inclined to act in a more proper manner (keep in mind the concept of Original Sin will keep any man, saved or not, from being perfect).
Although, I will state that far too many Christians put too big of an emphasis on the Old Testament and all the various laws (Ten Commandments and homosexuality in particular) without actually following them all themselves. Definitely cotton-picking, espeically in the South (which is a scene I just laugh at; a bunch of antebellem Southerners picking cotton and shit). I can see them as a way to live, but the aforementioned Paul letter changes them from laws to suggestions. One may be inclined to follow the suggestions given various verses, but they’re suggestions nonetheless. There are some denominations which at least try to follow all the rules, so they’re not being hypocritical.
And as a complete aside, and I don’t know if it’s been stated, but I believe the old Catholic Church stance on abortions was that they were allowed until the Quickening (feeling the baby move) occurred. That’s like 12-14 weeks in, I think. TD may now commence with the Highlander jokes.
I would just like to point out that the Jedi were ANNIHILATED, several times, and only survived because of massive reforms to their rules to be less constrictive and more open-minded.
Carry on.
Intolerance is one thing, hating people because of themselves. It is not the people true Christianity hates, it is their actions, which is harmful in the long run to themselves, to society because it causes scandel, and because natural law says it is wrong.
Since I do not know you, I won’t aruge that you aren’t happy, but I’m willing to bet that you are may jump from one thing to the next when the moment strikes. I could be wrong, but and you might be but not willing to admit it, but as I look at people without religionn its always with a smile but a snide comback at us who do have it?
Why is that? What is it about our accepting it, embracing it, speaking for it that peeves you off. Not going to try and make you Catholic, I just enjoy being Catholic and supporting and proclkaiming that joy.
No, I don’t jump from one thing to the next, and frankly, I’m tired of being told by you self-righteous pricks that I shouldn’t be happy or content with my life. I have a high standard of moral and ethical codes I follow, many of them coexist with what you believe as they are common sence and decent things to do as far as I consider. I however, can’t agree with your “natural law” of what is and isn’t harmful, for who can truly dictate what is and isn’t part of that law? God? God didn’t write the doctrine, men did, regardless of possible ‘influence’ from higher powers, men are not infallible. I don’t respect your faith and many of the ideals it teaches.
I’m sure the same can be said about Reformed Judaism.
Absolutely. Though that’s another subject for another time. 
No, that’s why I suggest using NEUTRAL SOURCES.
No. All of this is entirely in-factual. A faith is not a religion, nor is a community. A community with faith is STILL not a religion, before you even try going there. Use dictionaries, man, it makes it look like you can speak at a 10th grade level!
Hippies are responsible for much less killing than the Christian church. Even if you just take the annual average from the existance of each group. I’d look up to hippies if I was you, since they’re doing better than your church at a good number of its commandments.
Helping you understand is different than telling you. I’ve not seen many churches that will do the former.
To keep order is pretty much the unilateral reasoning behind fascism and censorship. Explain to me why it’s not a bad rationale in this instance. Use facts, and not overblown, self-righteous opinions presented as facts, please.
Awful, or Awe-full? As in, it is a really terrible, abominable document, or as in you are in awe of it?
Soviets. I know plenty of communists who don’t care about religion one way or the other. Rash, unbased generalizations aren’t getting you anywhere fast in this argument, Ziggy.
See that ‘one of’ note that that means there are others.
Yes. It’s a punishment fits the crime sort of thing, from what I’ve gathered.
Or you’ll be ravaged by succubi until sex becomes painful and they will never stop, etceteras.
Kay. Still there.
Explain how because you like to eat meat is any less cold-blooded than looking good. Both are inherently selfish. What’s the difference?
Doesn’t always work so peachy, giving up a child you’ve seen is harder than you think, and it’s their kid not yours so get out of their business.
Okay faith is religion, faith deals with religion, and if we look at what his apostles thought, and their first followers, you would see that He founded a community, yes a community is just the same as an organzied religion. There are laws, structure, it wasn’t just some hippie society where they were all smoking pot and sayin, ‘dude this totally rocks!’. If you look at the Church you’ll see we are a community.
By that definition, you can awkwardly wrestle <i>any</i> collection of people out of their existence as a community. Organized religion is a community. Those hippies you just described are a community. A close-knit neighbourhood is a community. You really should brush up on what “community” actually means. Also, the bible passage you referred to has Jesus giving Peter responsibility as the foundation of his faith, not a declaration of “I’m going to build a church”.
On the original topic, adoption is not always feasable, or even available. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be born in a (well… formerly) rich and developed country. Sweeping rules with no sense of logic or flexibility disagree with me.
Aren’t newspapers neutral or supposed to be? This link will take you to the book I’m talking about. Course you have to buy it, but it might be interesting where the other side gets its info, and you’ll find the passages I’m talking about.http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1576737519/104-0151494-1937505?v=glance&n=283155
Community: A group of people who reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a comman cultural and historical heritage. Religion this is not, but the Roman Catholic Church it is. We are the largest religion, therefore you can’t bump into a person three or four times without it being a Catholic, we have a common heritage both cultural and historical and we share government.
The Roman Catholic Church can, and does do this, so we’re one of the former. Part of being Apologetic.
You are most definately the better debater, doing this is getting the spiderwebs out of my mind. Thanks ^^! Could you elaborate on this for me? I’m a little confused on what you meant. Thanks ^^
You know your Shakespearian English, I’ll give you credit, I meant the latter. But could you read the Bible and understand it as it was meant to be understood, in first century Jewish or Gentile thinking?
Better succubi than incubbi, Lol, ^^. Actually I’d rather not have either. I’m sure neither species of demon would want that either, LOL.
Because I’m not eating the baby. Eating meat, however cruel it might seem can give us protein, but to kill a person because you wanna look hot for guys or girls, goes beyond selfish. Its criminal, and yes I am well aware that this is a very, very small portion of women who abort, perhaps by my guess less than one percent, at least I would HOPE.
The same then could be said then for those who abuse their children because they wanna watch an episode of the Rockfield Files and the baby is crying. Should people then get out of those parent’s business? Or what of a three year old who grabs his father’s lighter, and lights the curtains on fire, and the father punches the boy in his eye, does that mean we should get out of their business? Ora mother poking her daughter’s eye with a pencil? What about that, after all its their kid!
I understand that adoption is not easy, I do, its just a suggestion.
http://members.aol.com/KCC1TIM/ a very good place to better understand my position, since I’m so foggy in debating now adays. No the blonde dude is not me, but I know him personally.
http://members.citynet.net/morton/others/abortion.htm this was written by an abortionist whose turned to the pro-life movement. Not sure I agree with everything he said, but it’s still an interesting read.
By the way, who here knows that Roe, in Roe VS. Wade is now Pro-Life? It’s true, and if you read her testimony you’ll see a lot more went on than what we knew about.
It’s at my library, I’ll check it out sometime.
Agreed. Religions can be communities. I’m just wondering what this has to do with anything. . .
I don’t know, I went to catholic church several times and got told what to think. So it’s not the catholic church as a whole, but individual parishes that do it. While it’s nice to have someone to help, I think the manipulation of organization is more bad than good. This is probably a difference of opinion, really.
Thank you, I try my best. =D Anyway, I was just saying that the reasoning of ‘to preserve order’ has been used to back up a LOT of bad things in the past, and it isn’t enough reasoning for me to go by.
Again, thanks, I try. Maybe. t’s hard to tell how anything is meant to be understood, especially a document like the bible, which has been through so man (mis)translations it’s hard to even tell if it’s being metaphorical or not sometimes.
Either would be agreeably bad.
You can get protein from soy, so you still have some more selfish reason to choose meat. I’m not going all vegi-fascist on you, I eat meat, too. You should just examine your beliefs about morality on stuff like this regularly. Even if you still decide eating meat isn’t really selfish, it’s good to think about it.
Just because something is criminal doesn’t make it wrong. And I’d agree this is a minority, and that is a pretty messed up reasoning, but it’s really no more selfish than eating meat because you like the taste.
The government should. If other people handle it, that’s their business. The government should also stay out of it. I meant the government should stay out, not you. If you want to go try and talk people into adopting, it’s up to you.
See above statement.
Yeah, but it doesn’t always work, and a lot of kids do get sent up for adoption (more than are adopted, from what I can tell), so it’s not a flawless second-option to just negate abortion as a semi-necessity.
Read. They make some good points, but I think they rely a lot too much on appeals to authority and whatnot. Morally they may be good, but morals are opinion and they’re logically flawed.
Yeah, and Stokely Carmichael (I think that’s how to spell it), founder of the Black Panthers, is now a conservative republican. It’s weird how things change.
“Son”? “Kid”? Arac, what are you, 15? Get off it. Big words don’t make you an adult; pubes do.
And personally, I don’t think anyone can really fathom the pressure or the situation until they’ve experienced it themselves. One of my previous girlfriends aborted a child that we had created (accidentally), and while I feel bad, I feel better now than if I had a kid. Looking out for number one, yourself, has a name and it’s called Survival. There are animals that abandon their young; birds and squirrels for example.
I know he’s being sarcastic, but my point was that he’s doing so with erroneous information.
I don’t know where I picked up ‘son’, honestly, but ‘kid’ was meant to be ‘kids’ for which I wholly blame the punk scene in general, for referring to its fans as ‘the kids’ regardless of age. I picked up on it like a bad habit. Well, it is a bad habit, so that’s a shitty simile. The point is, I just call people that. It has nothing to do with me thinking I’m more adult than them, it’s just what I ended up with instead of other generic terms for referring to others, such as ‘man,’ ‘dude,’ and such. I figure if gender specifics can be used on people of the other gender, which can be done, then age-based ones probably follow the same loose guidelines. Sorry if it upsets you, son. =P
Some animals even eat them if they get hungry. I concur entirely on the survival point.
On an unrelated point, I thought that ARac and Sorcerer were the same person before this thread, for some reason.
Did you use to have another name, ARac?
The Bible was written thousands of years ago, when there were a LOT less people around, and survival really was an issue.
There are now 6.5 billion people on earth. Either we legalise euthanization, start ‘fixing’ people, or stop having so many damn children. The earth is NOT going to support us forever if we keep multiplying like goddamn rabbits.
Sorry I don’t buy the earth is being overpopulated. Scientists have doine studies, I have watched on ktla, last year, that people could build an ultra mega metroplis the size of Texas, and yes though it would be cramped, and miserable, everyone on earth would live it. If you disagree with this, you can always start talking about moving people to other satelites and planets.
Dude, that’s kinda sick, but even during the Fanco-Prussian War, the parents living in Paris during the siege would kill, cook, and eat their kids. Heck I suppose its cheeper than going to college.
I don’t agree with the looking out with number one. That’s selfish, I’d rather look out for my fellow man. Of course the only reason I would think for myself, is for my soul, so it won’t go to hell. This is kinda another reason I’m speaking up to defending people.
I take it you clicked on their sites then, cool. Tim is a friend of mine for ten years, and kinda my “jedi” master in these matters, ^^.