THE INCREDIBLES: An in-depth review (WARNING: SPOILERS!!)

Well, by now I assume that everyone has either seen The Incredibles, or doesn’t plan to do it at all. So, in order to prove why I believe this was the BEST movie in a long, long time (not to mention just to burn off my Incredibles obsession) I’m going to do a VERY in-depth review now. That means I’m GOING TO REVEAL EVERYTHING ABOUT THE STORY, so if you haven’t seen it yet STOP READING NOW! On the other hand, if you saw it but want to make sure you saw or understood everything in the story, then go ahead and read.

To begin with, I’ll proceed witha FULL narration of virtually all of the movie’s events (except the small insignificant ones… which were actually the funniest.)

STORY:
The movie takes place on an Earth were super heroes are real. The story begins 15 years ago, on the night that the superstrong hero Mister Incredible married his girlfriend, the stretchable Elastigirl. On that night he committed two mistakes (besides getting married, I mean :stuck_out_tongue: ) that would come back to haunt him: he rejected a boy named Buddy who wanted to be his sidekick, and he saved the life of a man who tried to commit suicide. The man then sued him for wounds supposedly sustained during the rescue- and apparently won the case! This started a wave of similar lawsuits against the other “Supers.” The public climate got so bad, the government offered to cover for the heroes- if they agreed to retire. Which they all did.

Fifteen years later, Incredible (whose real name is Bob Parr) and his wife (Helen) were living in the suburbs along their three children: teenage daughter Violet (who also had superpowers: Invisibility, and Force Fields); her preteen brother, the superfast Dash, and a baby called Jack-Jack, who had demonstrated no powers yet. Most of them were having problems adapting to normal life.
Bob hated his job as an insurance claims adjuster (meaning he was supposed to try to KEEP people from claiming their insurance) and missed his heroic adventures. Violet hated that she and her family were not ‘normal’ and was terribly shy; Dash was not allowed to practice sports and took his frustrations out by misbehaving at school; and Helen was frustrated by being unable to get everyone else to act like a family.
Unknown to his family, Bob was doing some secret crimefighting with his friend, the ice-creating ex-hero Frozone, under the pretense of weekly night bowling. Unknown to the two of them, a silver-haired woman was following them around.
Helen finds out when Bob comes home too late one night (after saving some people from a burning building) and they had a loud argument about the risks of that, plus their other problems. They don’t realize they’re being watched by Dash and Violet until it’s too late, causing the kids to worry about them.
The next day (presumably) Bob loses his job when he can’t stop himself from punching his odious Boss thru a wall (after he prevented Bob from helping a man who was being mugged) necessitating intervention by his old government contact to keep his secret ID from being revealed. He didn’t notice the mystery woman leave a package in his office. When he gets home and opens it, it projects a recorded message where Mirage (the woman) claiming to work for a secret agency, offers to employ him. Thinking this is his chance to regain his former glory (and unable to admit to Helen that he’s been fired, after she wrongly assumes he’s been promoted!) Bob accepts the mission. He leaves home under the pretense of going on a business trip.
He gets flown to a place called Nomanisan Island (get it? :wink: ) and told to help capture a rogue robot called the “Omnidroid.” Mirage warns him that the robot is programmed to learn as he fights. Despite that, Incredible manages to trick the robot into breaking itself up. Bob then agrees to continue working for his mysterious benefactor, despite his not revealing himself (Mirage handles things for him.)
In the coming days, Bob, much happier with his life, exercises to lose weight, buys a new car, and goes to his old friend, ex superhero costume designer Edna Mode so she can repair his costume, damaged in the battle with the Omnidroid. She agrees, but also insists on making him a new costume- but without a cape, which she explains are EXTREMELY dangerous to wear.
When Bob gets summoned back to Nomanisan, he again pretends it’s a business trip, but Helen is getting suspicious (except she thinks he’s having an affair.) When she notices that Bob’s old costume has been sewn up, she decides to call Edna about it, and she invites Helen over.
Meanwhile, Bob, in his new costume, arrives in Nomanisan, only to be attacked by the Omnidroid, and his employer reveals himself: it’s Buddy, now an adult, and a costumed villain calling himself Syndrome. He explains that this was all a revenge plot of his, and that Incredible was meant to be killed by the Omnidroid; this new version is more powerful, and Syndrome controls it with his bracelet. Unable to deal with both the robot and Syndrome’s paralyzing beam, Bob tries to escape into the island’s lagoon, but Syndrome drops a bomb into it. Bob escapes into an underwater cave, where he encounters the skeletal remains of a fellow superhero, Gazerbeam. He also discovers that Gazerbeam wrote the word “Kronos” on the wall of the cave before dying. A moment later, a flying device enters the cave and scans it, but Bob fools it by hiding behind Gazerbeam’s corpse. Syndrome now believes Incredible is dead.

Meanwhile, Helen visits Edna, who shows her costumes made for her and her children, all adapted to allow them to use their powers, as well as tracking devices. Edna then realizes that Helen doesn’t know that Bob was active as a hero again. Helen then calls Bob’s company, trying to talk to him, and finds out he was fired.

Meanwhile, Bob succeeds in sneaking into Syndrome’s base (built into a volcano) and reaches Syndrome’s computer word, where, using the password Gazerbeam wrote, he accesses his computer. There he finds out that Syndrome has apparently succeeded in secretly killing all the other superheroes (using a variety of Omnidroids); Bob’s family (and Frozone) are the last left. At that precise moment, Edna convinces Helen to use the tracking device in Bob’s suit to find him. Unfortunately, this activates the computer room’s alarms, and Bob is captured by its defense system.

Convinced by Edna to find and face Bob, Helen calls a friend who owes her a favor so he can lend her a private jet so she can travel to the island. But Dash finds their costumes, and her refusal to explain them (or where or why she’s going) baffles the kids. Naturally, they put them on and sneak on board, unnoticed until they’re near the island. Helen gets angry at them for leaving Jack-Jack, but they explain that left him with a teenage babysitter.
Meanwhile, Bob is being held by “energy chains” and is tortured by Syndrome, who demands to know who he contacted, not believing when the hero tells him he doesn’t know. When Helen tries to make contact with the island’s airport, Syndrome sends missiles to destroy the plane.
Helen manages to avoid some of the missiles, and tries to get Violet to surround the plane in a force field, but she had never created one so big before and fails; Helen tries to contact her attackers and get them to call off the attack by revealing there are children on board, but Syndrome refuses, and Bob panics when he realizes it’s his family in the plane. He pleads with Syndrome to spare them, but only makes the fiend all the happier to shoot them down. Eventually the plane is hit by some missiles, but Helen and the kids survive (see Comments as to how) and then land in the ocean after Helen stretches herself into the form of a parachute.
Syndrome mocks Incredible’s shocked horror at the belief that his family has been killed; carelessly standing too close to Bob, the enraged hero tries to grab him, but Mirage pushes the villain aside and is caught instead. Bob demands to be set free or he’ll kill her, but Syndrome calls his bluff, and then mocks him again for not being ‘strong enough’ to kill. He and Mirage then leave the chained, crying hero alone, but the whole incident has obviously affected her…
Meanwhile, Helen, who had shaped her body into rubber raft, arrived at the island with the kids, powered by Dash’s super-fast swimming. They find a cave to hide in, and Helen tells the children to stay hidden while she goes looking for Bob, and to use their powers if they’re discovered. Vi tries to apologize for failing to protect the plane, but Helen tells her that she trusts in her abilities. Then she leaves.
Elastigirl manages to sneak into the base, and figures out where Bob is being held. Before she finds him, however, a rocket hidden in the volcano takes off, which forces Dash and Violet to leave their cave (since in reality it was part of the rocket’s exhaust system.) Meanwhile, we see that Mirage is furious with Syndrome over his treatment of Incredible, and having chanced that he wouldn’t kill her.
The two siblings sleep in the jungle, but are discovered the next morning by a bird (which in reality was a robot-camera.) Mirage then sets Incredible free, and reveals to him that his children are still alive. Grateful, Bob hugs her- just as Helen finds them! Coming to the wrong conclusion, Elastigirl punches Mirage out, and almost refuses to listen to Bob, until Mirage explains that the children have been found out and that they’re being followed by Syndrome’s private army. The two of them rush to the rescue- still arguing.
When the kids are found by the soldiers, Vi turns invisible and Dash runs away at top speed, chased by velocipods (flying disks with buzzsaw edges, piloted by armed soldiers.) His pursuers end up killing themselves as they crash into trees and mountains trying to catch up to him. He then returns in time to save Vi from a soldier, only to in turn be saved by Vi from him, when she discovers she can create a Force Sphere with herself floating in the center! Using it as a sort of “hamster ball” Dash runs inside causing the sphere to roll away at high speed, even destroying some velocipods along the way- and finally crashing INTO their parents!! Reunited, the family works together to defeat more velocipods- until Syndrome shows up and captures them all with his paralyzing “Zero Point Energy” beam.

Back in the holding room, The Incredibles are all held by the energy chains while Syndrome explains his Master Plan: the rocket will deliver his greatest creation, the gigantic Omnidroid-Mark X (via a giant glider) to the heroes’ home city (Metroville) where it will run amock, making it look like an alien invasion. Syndrome will then show up to save the day, and thus gain a reputation as a new superhero! Bob is outraged that after having murdered so many real heroes, Syndrome wants to play one, but he explains that he’ll continue only until he gets bored, then he’ll just sell his technology, so that everyone becomes “equally special.” He then leaves the room, and the island.
Bob breaks down and apologizes to his family, admitting that this was all his fault for not appreciating what he had- and not noticing that Vi had already freed herself! (using her force field to disrupt the ‘chains’.) She then sets everyone free.
The group finds out that the Omnidroid is already terrorizing Metroville, but have no way to get there, until they find a rocket, which, while they can’t pilot, they can set to land on the same coordinates as the first one (as Vi pointed out.) Thought Syndrome had changed the computer’s password, Mirage helped them bypass that.
After thrashing the army, the Omnidroid was momentarily stopped by Syndrome (using his remote control bracelet) and lost one of its arms. But, distracted by posing before the public, Syndrome failed to notice that the robot had detected the source of his power over it- and blasted the bracelet off him, then knocked the false hero out, and then continued to ravage the city. Frozone tried to go to help, but his wife had hidden his costume!!
Meanwhile, The Incredibles arrive on the city in a winnebago that they stole from some of Syndrome’s men and then stashed in a second giant glider (held in place by Elastigirl’s body!!!) After a VERY rough landing (and some arguments as to HOW to get to the part of town the robot was attacking :slight_smile: ) Bob tried to insist that he would tackle the menace alone, which gets Helen mad at him- until he reveals he just couldn’t take the risk of losing them again. Helen convinces him to let her help- just as the Omnidroid finds them!
With Frozone’s help (apparently having finally found his costume) the Incredibles try to fight the Omnidroid, but it resists their attacks (thought Elastigirl managed to destroy its ray gun with a manhole cover). Bob finds Syndrome’s control bracelet in the ground, and the battle turns into a deadly game of keep-away as the heroes pass the bracelet around while trying to find a button that will stop it. Eventually they discover one that causes it its severed rocket-claw to launch, and they set up the robot to shoot itself with it- which it does, causing it to explode! Syndrome wakes up in time to see the heroes being cheered on by the crowd, much to his chagrin.

A while later, The Incredibles are being brought home in a limo by Bob’s government contact, who explains that Syndrome’s assets had been frozen, preventing him from using his riches for evil again. Bob asks him if this means that they can be superheroes again, but he explains that was up to The Government.
Helen checks out her phone messages from her cell phones, and discovers that something strange was going on with Jack Jack and his babysitter! But just as they are getting home, they also get a message where she explains that she has already handed the baby to the replacement babysitter they had sent.
Except they had sent no such person over! Fearing the worst, they run inside-
-To find Syndrome holding the baby!! Before they can act, he paralyzes them again, then gloats that he’ll train the baby to be HIS sidekick! When he tries to escape (by flying up to his manta-ray shaped ship, which was floating over the house) Jack Jack suddenly starts changing into a variety of forms, surprising the villain and causing him to drop the baby!! Jack is saved by Elastigirl, whom Incredible has thrown up, as she catches him in midair and turned into a parachute.
Syndrome vows he will try again, and gets a car (the same one Bob had bought with his money) thrown on his face for his trouble. Although the car misses him, it damages his ship… and causes him to stumble into one of its turbines, which catches his CAPE and yanks him inside, presumably shredding him to bits. The plane then explodes, then falls on the Parr’s home, destroying it… but the heroes survived thanks to Violet’s force field.

Three months later, the Parrs are all present at a race in which Dash has been allowed to participate! They have all apparently learned from their experience, and even Vi is confident enough to agree on a date with the boy she liked. After Dash wins second place (following his family’s instructions) the family walks outside the track field… only to witness a giant drill burst out of the ground, piloted by a mole-man creature who identifies himself as “The Underminer” and declares war on humanity- not realizing that he has a whole family of Supers getting ready to kick his ass! ^ ^

COMMENTS NEXT TIME

Only problem I had with the entire movie was Violet’s ending.

She establishes a certain style of clothing and hair when the film begins. Albiet, she has social issues and depression she chooses to wear DARK clothing.

However, when she becomes “confident” she pulls her hair back with a pink hairband and begins wearing bright pink clothing.

I’m not the only one who had a problem with this portrayal of Violet as many of my friends were angry with the idea that this presents.

Its as if they are lashing out at the kids who suffer depression as “wrong” and the confident and colorful kids as “right”. Bah, I just didnt like that ONE part.

Rest of the movie still holds up as Pixar’s best work yet, and some of the most well written characters I’ve ever seen in a motion picture.

Iz: I hadn’t noticed the clothes thing (thought of course, I noticed Violet overcoming her shyness.) It does sound a little unfair, but maybe it was done for visual purposes- it’s obvious (especially when you see all the story ideas that did NOT make it into the movie in the Incredibles Extras DVD) that many of the character’s subplots had to be simplified in order to make room for the main story (and it still ended up being a nearly two hour animated movie, Pixar’s longest ever.) Visual clues help to point out such things (did you notice what the pencils in Insuricare’s Boss’ office said? :slight_smile: )

Working on my full analysis of the story, which may or may not be posted tonight (I have some work to do first.) If not, later this week.

So…what did the pencils say? When I finally saw this movie, we rented it, but will probobly buy it when the price drops a bit.

No analysis tonight, sorry, got too much stuff to type. But I WILL analyse every freakin’ detail I can remember as soon as I get the chance, trust me.

GG: “Your life is in our hands” Which, considering how they did NOT give a darn about their clients, is very ironic indeed.

I thought it was $18 well spent. The only thing that bothered me and some of my friends is the quality of the audio. We put our copies in a laptop and could barely hear it, and we had to turn the volume almost all the way up on the tv. Then when it got to a loud part we had to turn it down. But, I still think its a very good movie.

Man, but this movie has a LOT of elements to analyze! (I guess that’s why I love it so much.) I’m going to do so over several posts rather in one big block as originally intended. Comments are welcome in between, of course.

*The movie begins with a sequence were Incredible, Elastigirl and Frozone are interviewed (separatedly) apparently for a talk show. This is of course to help stablish the characters quickly. But if you pay attention to what each said, you realize how each one of them would later change their minds about what they said wanted in their lives. (Incredible was NOT happy with a normal life; Elastigirl DID settle down; and Frozone stopped being a playa and married.)

*Although it sounded rough of Incredible when he rejected Buddy, in fact he’s NOT responsible for his going nuts. To start with, the kid obviously had something wrong with his life, if he was so fanatically obsessed with a Super Hero, that losing faith in him twisted him so; this is evident in the fact that he recklessly risked his life and (accidentally) several other people’s (the train commuters’). Though he also had his selfish reasons, Bob could do nothing but to reject him. Buddy would likely have been disilussioned later anyway.

*One thing I want to make clear is that, although Bob certainly had an inflated ego, He IS a competent hero. This is shown in the way he figured out that something was wrong in the bank vault, as well as in other moments in the movie. (Also: according to his file (in the DVD Extras) in addition to strenght, Bob has a danger sense similar to Spider-Man’s.)

*Some people are confused by seeing Incredible and Elastigirl act as they had just met, then it turns out later they were getting married that same night! Obviously, they had to pretend because the burglar they caught could listen in. (Besides, they were engaging in a little pre-foreplay playacting. Incredibles contains more (subtle) references to married sexuality than any other Pixar movie so far.)

*Did the guy who tried to commit suicide REALLY want to kill himself? If so, why sue Incredible for a few broken bones instead of just trying AGAIN? My idea is that the guy just wanted attention, and only jumped after firefighters set up a net to catch him (we don’t see one, but it could’ve been there; maybe Bob didn’t see it, or didn’t trust it to save the guy.) OR, maybe a slick-tongued lawyer convinced him to get even with Incredible that way… also making $$ and some rep for himself in the process. (Btw, Bob’s lawyer, seen in this scene, was secretly the superhero GAZERBEAM- the same one whose corpse Bob finds later. He was present at the wedding, too.)

*Along that same line: why did the people in the train sue Bob instead of thanking him for saving their lives!? Obviously, they were inspired by the suicide guy’s court victory to sue him as well- for MONEY, most likely. When you stop to think about it, suing super heroes is a natural, given all the careless property destruction that happens in their fights (thought they are usually trying to stop even more destructive villains.) Bob, in particular, has a problem controlling himself, as we see later in the movie. In addition, it seems like the main reason for people to tolerate the heroes was gone- see my next point. Again, they sued not just for money but to punish them- and perhaps, because they were secretly envious of them (this seems to be one of the movies’ subtopics- how some people would rather supress others they see as ‘better’ rather than try to excel themselves.)

*Here’s an IMPORTANT point that the movie does NOT address but SHOULD have: WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE VILLAINS? It’s never explained. Surely they would not have just quit because the heroes did? More importantly, would society have been so ready to turn against their heroes if they thought they still needed them? My guess is that MOST villains must have been defeated by the time the movie begins; Bomb Voyage must have been one of the last left. (Note: in the Incredibles video game, you get to chase down BV!)

*Althought the movie doesn’t make it too obvious (but the Incredibles Extras DVD does) it seems ALL the superheroes operated with Government permision. Not just that, the government provided them with equipment (like the Incredibile) and had files on them, including their secrets identities. It may be that when Supers first appeared, the government realized that it was for the best to work WITH rather than against them, especially while they were popular (The government in The X-MEN should take note). That also explains WHY the government agreed to pay the lawsuits (and otherwise cover up for the heroes) in return for their quitting.

More later.

I interpreted her initial appearance and clothing as more of an attempt to hide herself from view, and less of a fashion choice. She’s incredibly shy and lacks confidence to such a degree that she prefers to wear clothing that won’t draw any attention towards her, and to hide her face behind her hair.

I definitely didn’t see it as a deliberately cultivated ‘dark’ look. Which would explain why her boost in confidence and social skills simultaneously resulted in a drastic image change - she’s no longer afraid to let herself be noticed.

Really, I don’t think they’re lashing out at people who deliberately cultivate a gothic, depressed image as being wrong. That particular social group likes to think they’re antisocial, but they get on well enough with each other, which suggests otherwise XD Violet’s not one of that group - at the beginning she is a GENUINE antisocial, unconfident loner who obviously wants to be able to fit in, as evidenced by her infatuation with that boy and her excitement when “he looked at me”. Why would she get excited about that if she didn’t really want to be noticeable and to fit in?

Now we get to the parts that show what happened to the characters in the present.

*Note that at no point in the movie it is stablished on what year or decade the movie takes place. The movie has a strong 50’s influence (from cartoons like The Jetsons and movies like James Bond) but there are some anachronisms showing (like cell phones) so my opinion is that, despite appearances, the movie IS set in the present (at least from this part on) it’s just that Metroville has a ‘retro’ style to it.

*Making Bob an Insurance Claims Adjuster was a stroke of genius. Can you think of a worse job for a Hero? And yet, Bob continued to try to help his clients, to the point it attracts his Boss’ attention to him. This is an important point in the movie for me: while it may LOOK like Bob was a hero JUST for the glory, in truth he DID care about people. Thought he DID have an appetite for fame, which would come back to bite him.

*On the other hand, I don’t feel Vi’s plotline was handled well enough. We know she’s shy, and plenty of teenagers are, but she seemed to be angry at her family for not being "normal’. But nobody else knew that, and the others were trying their best to fit in, except maybe Dash. I think she was afraid her powers would cause others (especially the guy she had a crush on) to dislike her if they ever found out about them, and she shifted her anger on her family. But it wasn’t made clear enough.

And yeah, Vi’s powers are DEFINITELY a rip-off of the Invisible Woman’s. While there are several elements obviously inspired by the Fantastic Four in the movie, this one was the only one I consider blatant. Can you think of ANY other character who has BOTH Invisibility AND Force Fields? The two do NOT necessarily go together, you know.

*Speaking of Dash, here’s one thing that bothered me in the movie: in the part where he puts a tack on his teacher’s seat, he moves so fast that he can’t be seen, even by the camera. Yet, when he runs at top speed (in the jungle) the bad guys CAN see him well enough to shoot at him! Not to mention that moving so fast that you can’t be seen would require speed faster than a sonic boom- imagine what that would do to a classroom! (This is a mistake that is often commited by writers using superfast characters in the comics. At least in The Flash’s case, it has been explained that he has control of his interaction with the environment, so he can run at supersonic speeds without causing booms and such.)

Another thing: even if Dash were allowed to use his powers in public, it STILL would be unfair for him to compete in races- he would have an unfair advantage. It would be like letting a star athlete compite against small children. I;m not even sure if competing but intentionally winning second place (as we see at the end) can be considered fair either. Maybe they should let him play a sport were speed doesn’t matter much. Like, um… golf?
(I’m assuming Dash has a problem restraining his powers just like his father… he MIGHT be able to run without activating his super speed. But that would make his problem moot. Maybe his parents just didn’t trust him not to cheat?)

Again we get the message that people should be allowed to excel if they want to, but that normal people resent those who do. I’m not sure I agree with either statement. Super powers WOULD be an unfair advantage if they existed. Of course, Supers could have their own, separate competitions, and people might enjoy both. And why is conforming bad? Thought in this case, it was a disguised form of racial prejudice, of course.

*While the scene at the table made me laugh aloud, again I have to think: if Bob and Helen are trying to raise their kids to never use their powers, should they use their powers openly around the house themselves? Talk about a bad example.

*The scene with the car is one of my favorites, it shows Bob’s frustration with mundane life pretty well… and it also shows how little self-control he has. Thank goodness Helen is RUBBERY or he might crush her in the throes of passion one day. :stuck_out_tongue:

Next time: we’ll start getting to the GOOD parts. :wink:

To someone as oblivious as me, this is very interesting. :slight_smile:

GG: Actually, I missed many details myself the first few times I saw the movie, it’s chock-full of meanings and funny bits, I’m sure many people didn’t get them all either. Thus this thread. And no, I haven’t bought the DVD yet either (no money - :too bad: ) so I’m doing this from memory… so everybody correct me if I misremember.

Continuing the analysis:

*The next event is the catalyst (the one that REALLY starts the plot going) in the movie: Bob and Lucius (Frozone) going out to their “Wednesday Night Bowling”- in reality, listening to the police radio band (is that legal?) to find crime to fight. Why? Because it’s then that Mirage finds Bob. Note that she was apparently tagging Lucius, not him, and only realized it was Incredible -the one Super Syndrome REALLY wanted- after watching them in action. I must also point out that, if Bob hadn’t insisted on going ‘bowling’ then Frozone would’ve been targeted instead- and he might’ve died. And, sooner or later, Syndrome would’ve found Bob. So, even thought it LOOKED like the whole mess was Bob’s fault, it really wasn’t.

*By the way, don’t you think that it was odd that, after knowing Frozone for years, Bob didn’t know about his friend’s limitation with air moisture? A raging inferno is not the best place to tell your partner your powers don’t work on dry air. Doh

*Along that line: is the water in ONE little drinking cup enough to produce enough ice to freeze over a WHOLE person AND a speeding bullet? (Yeah, I’m a nitpicker. Sue me. :stuck_out_tongue: ) Theory: the air in the jewelry story contained enough moisture- Froz just needed a drink to kickstart his power again.

*Helen shows that she has some cool detective skills as she easily spots the debris bit on Bob’s clothes (in dim light, to boot!) This is consistent with other events later in the movie. Elastigirl is a really competent hero, who doesn’t depend just on her powers. Cool.

*Some people don’t get why Helen was so angry at Bob’s escapades. Apparently, thought I’m not certain yet, Bob and Helen had already been forced to move several times after their powers were discovered- probably due to Bob’s carelessness. (Remember that Helen phoned Bob to tell him that they’d finally gotten around to unpacking their last box? Which BTW, was a box of awards- trophies from their Hero days?)

*Again: how come Dash can move at superspeed over short distances and only disturbs the air enough to move the pages of a book (which is why his parents realized he was spying on them?) making no noise at all, but later can be seen and heard (and splits the surface of water) while running at top speed?

Oh, and how did Helen spot Vi? Probably from her (visible) pajamas, but I don’t remember seeing them in the scene (before the kids reveal themselves, I mean.)

*And at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I don’t see what’s so special about graduating from one elementary school grade to another. Thought I wouldn’t call it “celebrating mediocrity” either.

More later

I think Helen knew that if parents are arguing then if one of the kids is watching the other is too. Dash would have probably woken Vi up if she was asleep and Vi would probably woken Dash up. If my parents were arguing I would want the companionship of my siblings as too. Helen probably figured that it was typical behavior to be curious about what is happening in their parents lives.

Sorry for the delay, guys, you wouldn’t believe how busy I’ve been these past days (and I don’t even have a regular job yet!)

…Uh, GG, why are you a… mexican file cabinet? ~_^

Anyway: I found something VERY useful online: a site with the transcript of the WHOLE DIALOGUE of the movie!! (check it out here: http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/frodo01/the_incredibles_transcript.htm ) PLUS, I saw the movie YET AGAIN (SIXTH time, folks, and yes, I STILL loved it!) so I feel even more ready to analyze it than ever. Let’s continue!

*The day after the fire (we assume- it could’ve been a while later) Bob gets called to his Boss’ office to be reprimanded for helping his clients, while Mirage leaves a package in Bob’s cubicle. While being scolded, Bob notices a man being mugged on the street; he tries to go help but his Boss (Mr. Heph (?) tells him he’ll be fired if he doesn’t stay to hear his rant. Enraged, Bob hurls him thru (count them) FOUR walls!

Here, more than in any point in the movie, we see Bob’s lack of self-control. It’s amazing he didn’t kill the little twerp! (Guess those were some cheap walls. Still, he was bandaged from head to toe.) This IS a serious problem, especially for people who can LIFT TRAIN CARS. You’d think Bob would’ve gotten counseling or something long ago. Not that it wasn’t satisfying to see the little snake get what he deserved, but if Bob had killed him even the government wouldn’t have been able to help him.

(You know, I wonder if Heph is insured… by Insuricare? I hope they give him THE SAME FAIR TREATMENT they allways do! :slight_smile: )

*Bob’s old government contact, Rick, shows up to cover up the incident (by paying people up to keep silent, or even “erasing their memories.”) But he tells Bob, it’s the last time they’ll do it for him. He’s costing the government too much money.

This scene contains one EXTREMELY important event in the movie, one that I was wondering about, but only caught in the SIXTH viewing: Rick telling Bob the government (or to be more correct, the NSA, the Agency that monitors Supers, as revealed in the DVD extras) won’t cover for him again (meaning this isn’t the first time Bob screws up. No wonder Hellen was so angry.) Yeah, I mean, I heard it, but it didn’t sink in me why it’s so important: you know that later, Mirage contacts Bob, pretending to be from the government. Why didn’t Bob call Rick to confirm it? That had been bothering me for a while; it’s what I expected a smart person like Bob to do. I now realize it was because Rick had told Bob to stop bothering him. (To be fair, Rick did offer to move the family AGAIN, one last time, but Bob rejected the offer because he didn’t want to trouble his family again. Oh, and after the near-fiasco with the fire, Lucius had also told Bob that he didn’t want to “do that again” (the secret heroing.) So, Bob had no one to talk about this with, either. Note how Bob was running out of options; now his decision to accept Mirage’s offer doesn’t seem so rash anymore.

Oh, and yeah, the governement in the Incredibles universe DOES have the means to erase memories (again, see the extras DVD.) Let’s hope they don’t abuse it…

*When Bob gets home and stars throwing away his insuricare stuff, he finds Mirage’s message (he almost threw it away, too, unknowingly.) As I said, Bob was running out of options, and Mirage proved herself to be very good at manipulating people (she’s obviously modeled after some of the James Bond seductresses; only the firsts of MANY James Bond influences in this movie.) She offered Bob triple his salary, AND (subtly) mocked his nightly activities.

(Trivia note: in the Spanish version of the movie, all the stuff written in the background (like the newspaper clips in Bob’s room) we written in SPANISH. Most other movies would just have used the English ones. Nice touch, Pixar!) ^^

And then, the message self-destructs. (This is of course an old Spy cliche, which started with the old Mission Impossible TV show.) Now, I understand the need for that, and it was cool, but, why the ACTUAL explosion of the thing? Couldn’t it just have erased its data? As we saw, the burst activated the Parr’s fire sprinkler system, which was funny but hard to explain. (In fact, we didn’t see how Bob explained it. Maybe he said it was a short circuit in the house’s wiring?) But it was a good way to parody the whole selfdestroying-message idea, I guess. ^ ^

*In the next scene, Bob tries to tell Helen what happened at Insuricare, but chickens out and lies about it. He then calls Mirage to accept her offer.

Look, I won’t deny that lying to Helen was wrong, and led to Bob being caught by Syndrome. But you know, she’s in part to blame. She was SO eager to think that Bob had finally been given a raise, that Bob felt terrible about breaking her delusion. (Everybody always says how stupid Bob was and how smart Helen was. It wasn’t THAT clear-cut, folks. In fact, I’d say that Helen had a problem of her own: she desperately wanted her family to be normal, and was too eager to believe this, and the other lies. I’ll bet she reads Cosmo, too. Remember how she kept asking Bob to ‘intervene’ at the dinner table? Doesn’t that sound like something a stay-at-home mom would read in a magazine?)

Not to mention, IF Bob hadn’t fallen into Syndrome’s trap, the Incredibles might not have become involved in the evil plot in time to stop it.

Tomorrow: We get to An Island that Is NO Man. (Get it? :stuck_out_tongue: )

I’ve seen the movie only twice. We don’t own it yet, but it’s on our to-get list. And I hardly ever notice small details in anything. Anything subtler than a brick in the face tends to go in one ear and out the other. :wink:

I noticed something like that as well. My Spanish teacher is so cool; she lets us watch moviesin Spanish so we can get used tohearing it. However, is it just me, or when Bob reads the newspaper about that one advocate for superhuman rights disappearing, is the only thing written in Spanish the headline? Well, it was on a school VCR, so who knows.

I just saw the movie like five minutes ago, and there’s a few things bothering me; when Mirage tells Bob that the government dines both of their existences, she doesn’t explain why they would deny her existence. There doesn’t seem anything super about either.

I like how they used Syndrome and Bob’s characters. During the whole movie everyone around Bob, except for his 'ol buddy Frozone, perhaps, believes Bob’s helping people out only because he wants to relive the glory days, when in fact, he genuinly wants to help people. He has trouble controlling himself, and he does have a bit of a ego, but all in all, he just wants to help people. Syndrome on the other hand, is seemingly more competent than Bob, but as the movie continues we see that’s not so true. He also has a bit of an ego, but he’s allowed his ego to be driven by how eccentric he is. Which has basically caused him to go insane to me. The fact of the matter is that while Bob might not seem as smart or clever as Syndrome, he at least has good intentions with every action he does, even if it doesn’t work out. Syndrome, on the other hand, was really the glory hog. He’s submerged so deeply in his fanaticism that he has no problem with unleashing a robot on the city so he can destroy it become a superhero. Which, really doesn’t make any sense, seeing as how he seems to have something against them.

Well, he IS crazy.

Hiding oneself is a fashion choice. Also, people pay more attention to those who don’t look ‘normal.’ She probably would garner lessattention (at least at her age) the way she looked at the end of the movie. There are a ton of 10-11 year old girls who dress in pink clothing with their hair back in a pony tail. There aren’t as many who dress in all black and cover half of their face with their hair.
I thought this was colour based symbolism, just rather unusual. Traditionally, black symbolizes death, and and pin symbolizes passion combined with innocence (red and white), or evil combined with innocence, one of the two. At the end, she got a guy, but it wasn’t deeply sexual or anything. So she wore pink. However, the black doesn’t make sense in that symbolism, which leads me to believe they may have just been stereotyping, as Izlude said.

Also, I’m not quite sure you know what the goth social group actually is, because that’s not what they do. They make no attempts at being anti-social, and thus are social around each other, and in general, except when forced not to be. The core values of the movement were acceptance, peace, and (as in nearly every youth movement), freedom. None of which involve being anti-social. That just came naturally. Then, the people who weren’t accepted began to hang out with one another, because they actually weren’t anti-social, they just didn’t fit with the society in which they attempted to be social. Now, these two misfits may have had nothing in common, but actually being rather social people, they decide something is better than nothing, and realize they don’t like being shunned. This makes Goth one of the more diverse sub-cultures, although, many of it’s members end up being quite similar, as society tends to shun certain types of people en masse. One of these groups was the punkers who didn’t fit in with other punkers, and thus really didn’t fit in with anyone else. They were more focussed on changing the world with art and thoughtfulness, and also found that denying all emotion wouldn’t really lead to anything.
This created the music normally associated with the goth culture, and also gave the culture it’s name, as the music, derived from punk, changed its themes slightly; sex, death, and religion are a faint difference from the core anarcho-punk (the main punk culture of the time) themes of sex, change, and total anarchy (including the authority of deities). These themes were quite similar to the forbidden literary and philosophic ideas of the gothic era in history. The church at the time spoke much more of sex than ours does now, death is obviously associated with god, as is religion. Goth was thus given a name based on the music of many of it’s early founders (such as the Joy Division, Bauhaus, Mephisto Waltz, the Sisters of Mercy, Jesus and Mary Chain, etc.)
So, no, they were most certainly not trying to be anti-social. They were a social group formed out of collective, forced, anti-socialness. They were the social people who did not fit into a current society, and thus banded together to create their own, it was, at the time before it was quite so widely steriotyped as Satanists (or Wiccans, actually) who wear black and hate life, regarded by many sociologists as the most diverse youth movement to have existed in America’s history, and England’s studied history (youth cliques of the 1700s are not widely known about, for example), after perhaps the street kids of the mid-nineteenth century.

EDIT: Oh, and sorry for stealing your thread for a random rant, Wil. :thud:

Women’s intuition. Haha

Ninten:cool:

I disagree. I don’t believe it’s a deliberate fashion choice, and I didn’t feel Vi deliberately selected a ‘dark’ look. Dark colours in an ordinary context are far less likely to draw attention than pink shirts and headbands. Vi wore shapeless baggy jumpers to hide the shape of her figure, does nothing particularly special with her hair, and lets it hang over her face which makes avoiding eye contact and direct communication much more simple. In my school years I had a distinct lack of self confidence, mostly regarding my appearance, so I can completely sympathise with this - I wore the less figure-emphasising school jumpers, and long hair not particularly dressed up in any attention grabbing way. I also preferred dark colours - not because of their connotations with death and other morbid factors, but because bright colours automatically draw your attention and scream confidence, which I did not possess.

I really didn’t associate any of Vi’s initial appearance with the deliberate fashion choices of the gothic subculture. Until I read that post, I had no idea anyone else was, either o_O

I thought this was colour based symbolism, just rather unusual. Traditionally, black symbolizes death, and and pin symbolizes passion combined with innocence (red and white), or evil combined with innocence, one of the two. At the end, she got a guy, but it wasn’t deeply sexual or anything. So she wore pink. However, the black doesn’t make sense in that symbolism, which leads me to believe they may have just been stereotyping, as Izlude said.

Again, I’m not so sure, and I think this is getting rather too deep into the colour of Vi’s clothing. Like I said, dark doesn’t have to be linked with morbid concepts. Fundamentally, I think the makers of the movie were just going for dark, unoutstanding colours for Vi with her genuine lack of self-esteem, and bright at the end to show an increase in confidence. Any deeper than that and I think it’s getting a little pedantic.

Also, I’m not quite sure you know what the goth social group actually is . . .

I’m just judging by the goth groups I tend to engage with, and I know quite a few. Regardless, the original rant was at the producers slating the goth stereotype and making it out to be something negative, so the stereotype is what I used in my argument. Sorry if I didn’t make that too clear.

I really didn’t pick up any Goth stereotype vibes from Vi at any point in the movie. Even you stated in the quote I just snipped short there that the goth subculture has quite an intricate social structure, which I agree with. But I felt the original comparison held a grudge against the producers for slating non-conformism, which is the traditional view associated with the goth stereotype, as negative. Vi isn’t being deliberately anti-social - she has genuine self-confidence and self-esteem issues, which is a far cry from being a part of any kind of social group.

These are just my thoughts, btw, Arac, I find the discussion quite interesting :3

I would basically agree on the fact that she does seem to hide as much of her appearance as possible, but people who don’t look like everyone else stick out like a sore thumb. In a sea of birght shirts and headbands (or, at least, birhgter clothing), someone wearing all dark would be more noticed. It’s just one of those little oversights; in a school where most people dress in birhgter clothing, dressing in darker clothing would draw attention to you, just because the human eye is a attracted to difference, or a symbol of how she didn’t fit in. Either way, I didn’t really have a problem with the movie.
I also doubt the producers were trying to stereotype, or even thinking about it in that much detail. My complaint is that they hadn’t thought about how people, especially young children the parents of young children, might see it. In other words, I doubt the filmmakers were thinking ‘Let’s show people that dark clothes mean you’re depressed and bad.’ In fact, I doubt they even thought of the idea. However, people watching the movie might get that impression.

My only real objection on your thing about Goth culture was when you said ‘intentionally anti-social,’ which didn’t seem to fit, as they mostly tried to be social, it just didn’t work. Now, it appears you meant somethign else by that, so that’s also kinda a moot point. Violet has a little bit of a Goth vibe to me, but only visually/physically. A thin girl with large eyes and dark hair over one eye fits Siouxsie Sioux and many other female goth musicians quite well, amost to the point of this seeming intentional. However, all of them are quite confident people, which I guess shows that people arent’ always who they appear. Anyway, most people wouldn’t get that vibe though, unless they listened to the really old-school goth, in which case, they’d probably realize that that was coincidence.
In other words: I’m very wordy, but basically agree that there wasn’t really a ‘goth’ stereotype vibe from Violet.