I remember being put off by the animation of Digimon. It seemed that whenever someone or something was moving away from the point of view, it just showed the movement animation but without them “shrinking” into the distance, so it looked sort of like they were running or flying or whatever in place.
Seraphym: that’s exactly what I meant. There’s a diference between translating the jokes in a series into something the new audience will appreciate, and turning EVERY line of dialogue into a pun. In some of the series I refer to, you can see (for example) characters locked in a death-duel say to each other “nice suit” or one of the heroe’s friends who is watching the battle say, “I hope he doesn’t die, he ows me money” or similar things. While the japanese certainly have their equivalents to shows like Fairly Oddparents, in general the dialog is serious in most animes at least some of the time.
However, this is something I’ve noticed only in recent years; I felt that the first few seasons of Digimon were mostly Ok (perhaps not as intense as the original) but only in the last version’s dub did I feel they were playing it loose with the dialog.
Fortunately, there are still dubs that I feel are very good: I love the voice acting in YUGIOH and YUYU HAKUSHO. (No, I haven’t heard the originals, but even if I did I’m pretty sure I would still enjoy the English versions.)
It should also be noted that Japanese seem to completely lack the irony of Americans. Dialogue that any English-speaker would groan at are completely de rigeur in anime, and said with totally straight faces. Frankly, if the dialogue was kept as it was, most people, even kids, would turn it off in disgust after a little while, especially for lower-quality shows like Digimon. Turning the dialogue funny is pretty much the only way to keep the coolness factor alive for the more savvy American audience. That’s not to say that anime that’s really serious should turn funny, but things like Digimon are more on the borderline (they’re pretty outlandish as is).
I have seen both fan subs and American dubs of Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokémon and other kiddy shows, and I don’t get what the heck is “cool” about the made up jokes.
Also, I should note that some aspects of these kiddy shows are not all that kiddy. Digimon usually goes off with corny, overused but somewhat matureish explanations about how the different behaviors and characters of each brat influence their beasts. And don’t even get me started on Kaiba’s past in Yu-Gi-Oh!, THAT one is not something I want my ten year-old cousin seeing.
Cid: I’m already familiar with those facts. I have been watching Anime (both subbed and dubbed) for decades- since before the word was even coined, in fact; I was even a member of Anime Fan Groups (such as the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization) where I witnessed the first great debates on translatons (like the one over Bulma’s name in DragonBall.) Not to mention that, as a translator myself (not of Japanese, but still familiar on how hard it is to translate jokes between cultures) I’m still convinced that many recent dubbings -at least for series aired on TV- HAVE been intentionally dumbed down in order to sell them to a younger audience. Fortunately, the market for better dubbed (or subbed) versions IS there these days, so people this side of the world still have the chance to watch more faithful renditions… assuming there is enough interest in a particular series, of course.
And I still think Digimon is pretty good, better written than many other, supposedly more serious shows, as well.
Cid, you didn’t mention that there are also a number of English dubs that simply don’t make the grade. Not just for anime, but for anything. For example, the English VAs for Saber Marionette J to X were simply AWFUL. They sounded like they were simply reading a script, without putting any emotion into their characters at all. Whereas, on the Japanese side, the characters always sound lively, emotional, not to mention their voices fit them.
Besides that, there’s something cool about the Japanese dubs. Maybe it’s because the language sounds so much better than ours.
IE. Weiss Kreuz: English, Aya says “It’s time to die Takatori!” Whereas in Japanese, he says “Takatori, shi-ne!” It just sounds so much cooler.
I never said that all English dubs were good. 8p I’m well aware that there’s plenty of horrific stuff out there.
I have seen both fan subs and American dubs of Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Pokémon and other kiddy shows, and I don’t get what the heck is “cool” about the made up jokes.
“Cool” might be the wrong word… perhaps “palatable” might be better.
Wilfredo: Truth be told, the majority of people who watch Digimon or its semi-serious cousins do tend to be younger people. Why wouldn’t they cater to their audience, exactly? The adult demographic for anime is still pretty darn small, so if they kept the anime the exact way it was, they’d lose the child demographic while still not breaking into the adult one. So even if they do “dumb down” those shows, I can’t honestly blame them, considering how little return on investment anime makes.
You did neglect to mention that there are bad dubs, though. It does imply that all dubs are good.
Shinryu - nitpicking the admins/mods. Please don’t be angry =P
Cid: What you says makes sense, if ONLY children watched Anime- but that’s not the case. One of the reasons Anime is imported is precisely because, while it can be passed off as Kid’s stuff, it CAN appeal to teens or even adults. Not much risk there; after some editing, the vast majority of TV anime shows are safe for kids AND may lure in other audiences. So it isn’t like they’re risking much. It’s what’s been done for years.
On the OTHER hand, taking a series that older audiences can enjoy -like Rave Master- and dumbing its dialogue to preteen level (or worse) IS a risk; the little kids might not enjoy it, and the teens and adults certainly won’t. THAT is what baffles me. It’s a poor marketing decision, and it’s one I hope doesn’t last.
Any poor marketing decision is, by Darwinistic definition, one which won’t last, because it won’t make money.
There’s always some risk in porting any series and deciding who it should be marketed to. Anime is not like Pixar movies where both adults and kids can enjoy it. If left exactly as is, most kids would be bored and most adults would cringe. If they want to make it mainstream, they do have to change some stuff around. The only question is how and how much. I personally haven’t watched TV in several years, so I can’t keep up this conversation about shows I’ve never seen. 8p I’m just postulating here.
And speaking of Dubious Dubs (ha) I just found out that the main character in Katsuhiro Otomo’s latest Anime Movie masterpiece (not my words) since Akira, STEAMBOY, a guy named Ray Steam, will be voiced by… Anna Paquin? You know, Rogue from the X-Men movies?? :o Either Ms. Paquin has a greater voice range than I expected, or that’s one girly-voiced boy… I’ll judge once I see it.
Young boys being voiced by girls is a long-standing tradition in animation. Bart Simpson, for one. 8p
True, except the character’s a teenager/young man.
As I said, let’s wait and see.
Goku was voiced by the same female VA in the Japanese DBZ (and I presume DBGT too), even when he was a grown man.
In Japan, correct? I still think it’s odd that a male character in an English series is voiced by a woman, unless she has the talent to do male parts well, of course. (Or the character is supposed to sound girly.)
Lisa Simpson is played by a man.
No shes not, shes played by that little sqeeky woman from Nightcourt.
Remember this woman? Thats the actress who does Lisa.
There’s that problem in the french translation of The Old Man and the Sea. The “old man” is supposed to be very neutral and respectful, but they translated it as “old guy”, “old dude”, mostly. “Old man” is the most respectful way without going into the “venerable” qualificative.
Personally, I prefer both. That way, I can easily compare which dub (because as much as people will want to convince you that the original voice is not a “doubling over”, it seriously fucking is considering that images don’t speak) was worse, whether the state of Japanese (or any other country, using Japan as an example here) VAs has changed for the better or the worse, or the state of American VAing (BRING BACK DOUGLAS TAYLOR DAMMIT! NEW GETTER ROBO SUCKS WITHOUT HIM!), or whatever.
While not knowing the language, certain voice-pitches are universal. If they’re talking about an international villain (someone from a certain part of the world), I’m expecting them to have a slight accent when they speak Japanese. That is never really the case, of course.
The only character I distinctly remember having an accent in Japanese is Mary from Xenosaga (the animation, and I assume in the original game as well). She sounds like an American. 8p Which I guess is why she has a Southern accent in the English version.
The Texas Mac pilot and his wife are also pretty well done in the original version.