ok, before you say “Wrong forum” I want to stress that this doesnt pertain to anime only. This, IMO pertains to all forms of media…
I know many enthusiasts feel that the only true way to watch anime or other japanese oriented media with voice acting is to have the original voice actors with sub-titled text that we can follow by.
Now, one of the main arguments to this is that this is “the way it was meant to be viewed”. I agree full heartedly to this statement. However, to stretch it even further, I’ll add on that it was also meant to be viewed by those who ARE japanese (or the respective language of the media’s origin). Like books, games, and software, movies will be translated so that when the product reaches other shores, the primary culture of that country can enjoy it.
Setting that aside, as you can still say “we should still appriciate it for the voices picked out for the characters initially…”
True that. However, it wasnt untill watching a very nice OVA that I wouldnt have imagined viewing till my roommate made me called R.O.D. (read or die). There was an episode including a character known as “The German Glider King” and this is when it hit me. Accents. As much as I would like to keep clear to the original voice actors and appriciate them for what they were… Accents were simply not the same.
The english german glider kind was hardcore german. He was wily and sounded just like I’d imagine an insane german engineer. However, the Japanese voice-over, while wily, was certainly not hinting at anything german. It is in this that I feel that english dubs will have an upper-hand to most original japanese voiceacting.
Any thoughts? Please try to be constructive without flaming. I respected your opinions by not saying “OMGWTF I HATE JAP-SPEAK!”
I generally like Japanese voice actors, although I must admit that sometimes I really can’t tell them apart (Seriously, there are some times in which I can’t distinguish certain voices from each other, especially with women).
The thing with dubs is simple: It depends on how good the voice actor is. Most people don’t like dubs because the voice actors are god-fucking-awful, but if you manage to get a guy who can really pull off a voice that fits the character, then I’m a happy camper.
I like a dub over a sub if the voice acting isn’t god awful. FFX had awesome voice acting. CV SotN was embarassing. There are examples of good and bad everywhere. Do we really know if the original is actually good voice acting when we think about it? Not entirely as we don’t always get it. I watched His and Her Circumstances (Kare Kano) in english and the voice acting was superb. In fact, I’d say it was better than the sub (although the japanese characters needed translation of course)
I think another thing that often hits me with translations, and I prefer a french movie in french over english as I understand French and I’ve seen enough translations to say this: there is often a loss in the translation. Meanings, implications, ways people say things, often these things are overlooked and while it doesn’t make the expereince so much worse, its these little details that often bump the extra notch.
So speaking of these little details, does a sub really help all that much? No. Its just written instead of being said. We need to take a few things into consideration: if you’re watching a german movie about a german war in WW2, listening to it in Japanese will not be very representative, even if it was originally made in japanese. Its supposed to be in fucking german due to the very context. This addresses the issue of the mad german scientist due from ROD (which I’ve never seen but the point remains): what it is supposed to be like conceptually.
So really, there just isn’t any real answer to all this. Its just silly to make an overblown statement and irrational stance on something like dubbing and subbing as long as it really doesn’t detract so much from what the experience was intended to be. When people freak , the context of why they’re freaking needs to be taken into consideration: this is just the same thing as with a certain clicke of gamers that feel offended that their territory is impeded upon by other people. They have an elitist, xenophobic attitude to any kind of advance into what they take so dearly and personally by people that are not like them and they reject the differences that these people try to bring forward to better enjoy the material they are also interested in. Its a common phenomenon we’re all well aware of.
When the voice acting is good, I prefer dubs over subs any day of the week. It’s just that most of the dubs I hear sound a lot like getting raped in the ear.
If voice acting is bad in the japanese version, the nice part of not knowing a language is that you can’t tell. You just hear some gobbldegook anyway. When you can understand what’s being said and the proper way to pronounce words, it becomes that much more irritating when someone throws those rules in the wind and rapes your ears.
For some movies, for instance Hero, I vastly prefer hearing it spoken in its original language as opposed to the dubbing, just because it feels right. It feels like watching with an English dub would detract somewhat from the movie.
Whereas if I’m watching, say, Cowboy Bebop and I have a choice between a sub and a dub, both the English voice acting and the Japanese voice acting sounds good, so I’ll go with a dub.
Interestingly enough, I watched a DVD of Cowboy Bebop with IonMage once, and it appears that in one “dub” mode, it shows subtitles where there’s a difference between sub and dub.
Oh, and another thing about dub/sub: sometimes, bits of the Japanese version (like jokes, and stuff) don’t make sense when translated literally into English, so the dub is altered a bit so that it does make sense.
Yes, the English subtitles are different from the English voice acting, for whatever reason. My guess is that they decided to make the subtitles ‘closer’ to the Japanese VA than was possible without being cumbersome in the English VA, or something.
Edit: To add to this thread, I’ll agree with the notion that dubs are good if they are done right. If not, sub time.
That is a valid point. But sometimes mediocre translators and lousy voice actors tamper with the original content and produce an inferior translation, in which the dialogues may even be completely rewritten, or some subtleties of language lost in between.
I just think that most girls in anime sound too goddamn high-pitched and need to get punched in the fucking mouth. Thats one of the reasons I don’t like japanese voice actors. The girls are not fucking cute when they talk like that, they are grown ups, not children.
Dubs the vast majority of the time. I will agree that there’s plenty that gets lost in translation. For example, in Japanese there’s a whole lot of meaning that goes into what people are addressed as. “Oji-san” literally means “old man”, but respectfully; there’s just no way to translate that into English so both pieces of information (that the addressee is seen to be old and that the addresser still has respect for him) is kept.
Generally, I’ll prefer English dubs when I’m more interested in the performances of the characters (e.g. Slayers, or practically any video game). I’ll prefer the original Japanese when I’m more interested in the story (e.g. Fullmetal Alchemist). And of course if the dub is awful give me the Japanese any time.
I will say that seeing Metal Gear Solid 3 in Japanese, as in some of the fun videos that have been making the rounds here, is a jarring shock to me and one which I try immediately to forget. Whereas seeing Xenosaga in Japanese is kinda cool.
And I will note that as of now I know over a hundred and fifty Japanese phrases and words, solely from watching subbed anime. So yes, that’s definitely true.
Interestingly enough, I watched a DVD of Cowboy Bebop with IonMage once, and it appears that in one “dub” mode, it shows subtitles where there’s a difference between sub and dub.
