Please sign my petition?

You just said yourself that those sources are biased. Granted, so are the people who want the hunt to continue. But I’ll say this, the target seals of the hunt are not only days and weeks old, that’s just what the anti-seal activists like to keep saying. Yes, some are taken, but it’s not all they’re after. If that were the case the population would have died out LONG ago. Besides, it’s not just the hunt that has decreased seal numbers in the last couple of centuries. Expansion, global warming, decreasing fish population, have all played a part. In recent years the fact that the seal population is lower is irrelevant, its that the seal to fish ration is much smaller than it was, more need to be killed or else they’re all just going to starve anyway. The hunt hasn’t been slaughtering millions of seals carelessly, it’s not an extermination.

Again, eye-witnesses can also be biased. It helps if a few dollars are put in their pocket. There have certainly have been instances of exaggerating details for the sake of making some propaganda. Again, I’m not saying they all are, but you have to keep all this in mind when you’re reading this stuff. And you should care about the profitting on either side, because that affects what you see in either propaganda. Though I can gaurentee there’s no little people making a living in the anti-seal hunt activism.

Funny, because from what I understand it’s that seals are killed as quickly as possible. If they feel anything at all it’s for a split second, so long as things are done right. I’m not saying mistakes aren’t made (and whenever they are I’ll be it’s THOSE images you’re seeing which are presented as the way it’s always done) but people are only human. Care IS taken to make sure the seals don’t suffer.

People don’t need the oil anymore, that was part of my point. The grisley images of seal slaughter that people are familiar with come from the old days of seal hunting, where it was a ‘grab all you can’ industry where the sole product was the oil. Nowadays, however, it is more for the meat and the fur, and in some cases the bones, and people do take care to be humane over pure quantity. I’m not saying that Newfoundlanders hunt them for their skins (though there are peoples who do) but it’s an industry, it’s a job. They get seal carcasses, they get money. And sorry if you ‘refuse’ to accept it, but that IS the case. There are a lot of places in Newfoundland where towns were settled based on one industry, and after the Feds totally screwed up the fishery, a lot of those towns pretty much died. There are similar places that rely on the seal hunt, they lose that, they got nothing. And a lot of those people don’t have the funds to just pack up and move. Do you want to go to these places and tell these people they can’t live in the place they grew up anymore because you, a total stranger, is uncomfortable with the idea of them killing seals?

Well you’ll need to make a LOT of changes. Good luck with that, you’ll need it.

Again, it’s not painful if it’s done right. And they do. Perhaps I’m not making myself clear on this point, but THE ECONOMY IN THESE SMALL TOWNS IN NEWFOUNDLAND IS NOT GOOD. It’s not like the rest of Canada. And we, as a province, have been literally slapped in the face since we joined confederation every time it’s slightly convenient for the Feds to take something for us, rather than fight for it. Did they put harder restrictions on commercial fisheries, and pressure foriegn vessels from fishing in the Grand Banks? Nope. They just closed the local fishery despite all the evidence that the local fishery was not going to hurt the cod stocks in the way that the other two aforementioned fisheries had. They didn’t care if they virtually destroyed all those towns. Now it’s the same thing, instead of standing up to anti-seal activists for the sake of the people they’re supposed to be in office to serve, they’re taking the easy way out. It’s just a few more little towns in Newfoundland, right? What do they matter?

And in doing so you’re essentially hurting other people. Oh, but it’s ‘alright’ because they’re ‘hunters’. I’m sorry but I just don’t buy that. The anti-seal hunt movement has only gotten so big because A) Seals are cute and people can identify with them, and B) The hunt is not supported by any big, wealthy organization and it can’t really fight back. That’s why it’s so easy for people to jump on this, when there are dozens of much better causes out there. You just have to spend the time searching for them. I’m not telling you how to live your life, but I’m saying that you can’t just support this with a clean conscience. There are people who depend on it, and a lot of them have no other way. And a lot of hunters are rightfully fed up that people they’ve never met before, who have never SEEN a seal in their lives, are telling them what they can or cannot do. I’m against animal cruelty as much as the next guy, but when it comes down to these areas that have no other economy to go on, then I can live with the lives of a few hundred thousand seals a year. Especially since, with the way things are going with the evironment and the fish population, many of those would have died anyway.

I signed it, I hope they stop, because all the seals do is basically nothing, so why kill them, it doesnt make sense to me. I bet they dont even taste good.

I can’t say I fully support your “online-petition” endeavour outlined in this particular thread because it doesn’t seem to be very intelligently thought out, but you’ve got spirit!

  1. Do do that research, don’t neglect it because it will make you feel more disgusted or whatever.
  2. Online petitions, especially petitionsonline.com, don’t matter one bit in credibility. What I’m trying to say is (in a nice way :P) that you’re really wasting your time in the worst way possible by devoting any time to an online petition.
  3. Do this methodically if you want any results… send some stuff to local newspapers, get the word out, and don’t do a rush job like for the online petition (which thankfully doesn’t matter :P). A professional job can’t hurt, right

I don’t know…I feel like any little bit can help…any little bit. I know online petitions aren’t really that great for the given reasons, but even if it’s just something…to get someone to notice and in turn that person can strive to do greater things…it’s to raise awareness of an issue out there (that doesn’t necessarily involve just seals). I have been sending things to my local newspaper, which were a lot more eloquent than an online petition, let me say, and I’ve heard nothing back (everyone’s anti-seal stance seems to get published except mine…) Like I said, i’m still waiting on my printer being fixed so I can make up a newsletter and photocopy it and start from there. But as you pointed out, doing the research…yes that’s holding me back, but I feel that I’m so sensitive that I’ll stumble across facts that I don’t like and it’ll prevent me from doing anything until I do get results, which are rare. I don’t want more guilt place on my shoulders than I already do.

You just said yourself that those sources are biased. Granted, so are the people who want the hunt to continue. But I’ll say this, the target seals of the hunt are not only days and weeks old, that’s just what the anti-seal activists like to keep saying. Yes, some are taken, but it’s not all they’re after. If that were the case the population would have died out LONG ago. Besides, it’s not just the hunt that has decreased seal numbers in the last couple of centuries. Expansion, global warming, decreasing fish population, have all played a part. In recent years the fact that the seal population is lower is irrelevant, its that the seal to fish ration is much smaller than it was, more need to be killed or else they’re all just going to starve anyway. The hunt hasn’t been slaughtering millions of seals carelessly, it’s not an extermination.

But the numbers are so high…1 million every three years seems awfully big and doesn’t seem fast enough to “replenish” those that are slaughtered…

Again, eye-witnesses can also be biased. It helps if a few dollars are put in their pocket. There have certainly have been instances of exaggerating details for the sake of making some propaganda. Again, I’m not saying they all are, but you have to keep all this in mind when you’re reading this stuff. And you should care about the profitting on either side, because that affects what you see in either propaganda. Though I can gaurentee there’s no little people making a living in the anti-seal hunt activism.

But what about documentaries on this sort of thing? How can taped footage of the seal hunt be biased and exaggerated?

Funny, because from what I understand it’s that seals are killed as quickly as possible. If they feel anything at all it’s for a split second, so long as things are done right. I’m not saying mistakes aren’t made (and whenever they are I’ll be it’s THOSE images you’re seeing which are presented as the way it’s always done) but people are only human. Care IS taken to make sure the seals don’t suffer.

Well I hope to God that you’re right, and I guess I’ll have to gather more evidence.

eople don’t need the oil anymore, that was part of my point. The grisley images of seal slaughter that people are familiar with come from the old days of seal hunting, where it was a ‘grab all you can’ industry where the sole product was the oil. Nowadays, however, it is more for the meat and the fur, and in some cases the bones, and people do take care to be humane over pure quantity. I’m not saying that Newfoundlanders hunt them for their skins (though there are peoples who do) but it’s an industry, it’s a job. They get seal carcasses, they get money. And sorry if you ‘refuse’ to accept it, but that IS the case. There are a lot of places in Newfoundland where towns were settled based on one industry, and after the Feds totally screwed up the fishery, a lot of those towns pretty much died. There are similar places that rely on the seal hunt, they lose that, they got nothing. And a lot of those people don’t have the funds to just pack up and move. Do you want to go to these places and tell these people they can’t live in the place they grew up anymore because you, a total stranger, is uncomfortable with the idea of them killing seals?

I can respect the fact that someone may want to make a living off of it, but if they aren’t taking the most careful measures to ensure that seals aren’t killed in an inhumane way (such as being shot or clubbed…how do they do anyway? What is this alternative, humane killing that people are talking about in this thread?)

And in doing so you’re essentially hurting other people. Oh, but it’s ‘alright’ because they’re ‘hunters’. I’m sorry but I just don’t buy that. The anti-seal hunt movement has only gotten so big because A) Seals are cute and people can identify with them, and B) The hunt is not supported by any big, wealthy organization and it can’t really fight back. That’s why it’s so easy for people to jump on this, when there are dozens of much better causes out there. You just have to spend the time searching for them. I’m not telling you how to live your life, but I’m saying that you can’t just support this with a clean conscience. There are people who depend on it, and a lot of them have no other way. And a lot of hunters are rightfully fed up that people they’ve never met before, who have never SEEN a seal in their lives, are telling them what they can or cannot do. I’m against animal cruelty as much as the next guy, but when it comes down to these areas that have no other economy to go on, then I can live with the lives of a few hundred thousand seals a year. Especially since, with the way things are going with the evironment and the fish population, many of those would have died anyway.

I understand where you’re coming from, with the thought of Newfoundland in mind. I really do. That was my biggest objection in becoming involved with this sort of thing. Maybe I am acting too quickly because of my emotions, but then again, maybe not. When I hear of too many cases of seals being unmercifully slaughtered in the most brutal and painful way, it’s wrong. It turns me against the whole action in general, regardless of who is doing it and why. I know that some people are trying to make a living. But as it stands now I believe that 300 000 and up seals dying every year is a bit excessive, especially if you fall back on the thought of “oh they would have died anyway”. Even if something that I could do was just somehow shed light to the ethical treatment of these animals, and to ensure that they would rightfully be put to a quick, and painless death (that DOESN’T involve bloodshed) then I’d do that.

Maybe it doesn’t seem it, but you’d be surprised how fast those animals can multiply.

What documentaries show is selective. Showing just enough lack of care, and inproper handling can make the entire industry seem that way. Like I said last time, I’m not saying that accidents don’t happen, but when they do, they’re leapt upon and bared for all to see.

Like I said above, whether or not their blood is split is a moot point, so long as they die as painlessly as possible. I can appreciate the fact if you don’t like the thought of an animal’s blood being split, but there are more important points to debate here. Also, I’m not ‘falling back’ on the ‘they would have died anyway arguement’, but it IS a valid point all the same. What’s worse, an instant death at the hands of the hunter, a starving to death over a long period of time? The seals may not be at that stage yet, but they can certainly get there in the forseeable future if their population isn’t kept at a reasonable level.

Don’t get me wrong, like I said before, I’m not saying that accidents never happen, or that every hunter out there always does everything he can to end the seal’s life as painlessly as possible, especially when there’s a quota that needs to be met in a limited time. It’s not reasonable to expect perfection, we’re all only human. But the industry does have rules and regulations, and penalties for obvious mistreatment of seals. Decades ago, it didn’t even have that much in place, so activists have had an impact on the industry, to be sure, and at least those changes I agree with.

I’m not trying to say that you’er wrong to believe what you do, I just want you to realize there’s more to this than just not wanting the seals to die. Stopping the seal hunt would have a much larger impact than that. And I guess I get a bit emotional myself when it comes to Newfoundland, because I know how hard it’s becoming to live in various parts of the province with the economy going the way it is. But you also have to realize that the images that anti-seal hunt activists use is as much propaganda as anything else. Many of them have resorted to outright lies to garner support (and donations) so I guess I’m especially criticial of them. But people like that are small in number, and most of the people against the seal hunt are just doing it because they want to fight for a cause. Though, in my own opinion, wanting to make the hunt more humane is a better cause than stopping it entirely. I doubt either of us is going to convince the other to change their mind, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree, else we’ll go back and forth forever.

I don’t really care about seal hunting and everything. It’s not affecting me in any direct way, but I would like to point out one thing. Disney and Lemmings. Remember that documentary footage of lemmings running off a cliff? Yeah. It’s fake; they staged that. So, while Disney’s was done for a different reason, you can’t just accept documentaries at face value and assume all footage shown is in its original context and not staged at all.

Well I guess I’m a bit disheartened after reading all of this. I suppose that everything that Spoonybard has said is true- especially the fact that the fight should be about making seal hunting more humane than just stopping it. I just get caught up in such sadness when I do see those bad images, and I’m scared that if such a thing continues, then those bad things will continue…I wont take down my petition link, but I will change my mind to try and drive it to become signed…like I said, maybe it will get someone’s attention, anyone’s attention and they themselves will pledge to help animals or seals in some way. I guess my wanting to help others overshadowed my ability to think clearly and to actually pledge myself to a worthy cause…not that this isn’t, but I should have thought about it more. But I’m kind of afraid to :S

Remember that animals kill each other too, and that we humans are a necessary part of the ecosystem. If we stopped, bad things would happen. Have you thought about what would happen if the seal population doubled? It sounds nice, but then many of them would starve, dying far more painfully than if we had killed them. This would happen every year, probably for a long time. It could even result in a <i>lower</i> seal population in the end.

Here in Michigan, there’s a deer hunt, and a whole lot of deer are killed. Maybe it’s not a pretty picture. But if it stopped, the amount of traffic accidents up north would skyrocket, and you’d also start seeing deer lying around who died of starvation. I think this actually happened once, when there was less hunting than usual.

So, keep in mind that humans are animals, that the ecosystem relies on our hunting, and that we kill things far more humanely than other animals do.

Even though Miltank has a point, it doesn’t hurt to sign an online petition.So Ill support you Eva.I think its very cruel to slay a great number of ANY kind of animal (except insects,they can all go to hell.They dont require simpathy).

No need to be disenheartened, Eva, I didn’t mean to tear into you. I guess what I meant, overall, was to look at both sides of the issue. There’s propaganda on both sides, and they’re both self-interested, when it comes down to it. All you can do is look at them both, then make up your own mind.

This is really advice for every sort of debate out there. There’s two sides to every arguement, and both sides are really self-interested. An outsider needs to listen to both of them to make up their mind, not just the one side that immediately appeals to them.

Signed. Not because the hunt is wrong, not because it involves wicked man killing little baby seals to make furs which can now be produced synthetically, but because of how the hunt is done and because of how little is, in fact, exploited afterwards. There is nothing wrong about hunting: it is a part of our biological purpose and in the end a biological necessity, but there are several unethical not to say wrong and wicked ways to go about doing it. Let us instead make a petition petitioning the hunters and the protesters to take courses from the Inuits.

Even though Miltank has a point, it doesn’t hurt to sign an online petition.So Ill support you Eva.I think its very cruel to slay a great number of ANY kind of animal (except insects,they can all go to hell.They dont require simpathy).

haha as timid as I can around insects (centipedes and spiders especially) I always try to release them outside before killing them :slight_smile: I know how crazy that sounds.

No need to be disenheartened, Eva, I didn’t mean to tear into you. I guess what I meant, overall, was to look at both sides of the issue. There’s propaganda on both sides, and they’re both self-interested, when it comes down to it. All you can do is look at them both, then make up your own mind.

This is really advice for every sort of debate out there. There’s two sides to every arguement, and both sides are really self-interested. An outsider needs to listen to both of them to make up their mind, not just the one side that immediately appeals to them.

Well no, you didn’t really make me feel bad, you just made me think more. Thank you for approaching the subject gently and not going out of your way to be a jerk, because the topic is sensitive to me. There may be two sides to every arguement, but in this case, they can both see eye to eye, right? Like what Nul said, hunting is a part of human nature. I’ve always known that but in this day and age, I honestly thought that most of us don’t need to hunt in order to survive. So while I still oppose hunting in general (that’s just cuz I’m a big animal lover :P) I can see why the seal hunt should still continue- however, under humane and painless circumstances that are not devastating to the seal population. So that’s what I have to focus on- humane treating and lowering quotas. I know that this is where many of us will still disagree. But hey, I’m listenining!

So my idea now, is to just type up a new message (outside of my petition) that I can link to instead, explaining my new and real purpose for why I have made the petition- that can include everything that we’ve discussed here. Does that sound like a better idea? I know that everyone is still gonna say “it wont work” but I know it’s not going to make the government say “hey let’s do what this girl says!”. Raising awareness = first step. Any comments?

Well, you have an alternative here, which is to change the focus to advocate teaching of more humane and controlled methods of seal hunting, and raise awareness based on your research and what you’ve learned. As Spoony said, stopping this event entirely may put a big dent in the economy of a lot of Newfoundland towns, especially the small ones.