People are fake.

You’re heartless. You don’t care that a girl died, because you didn’t know her. In other words, if it doesn’t affect you, it’s totally fine. Definition: Narcissistic, to the extreme.

I don’t understand why you would post this. You’re blithely atheist. You have no reason to mourn anyone’s death, unless you just feel like it. Are you trying to convince people that you’re completely self-absorbed? In that case, point proven.

You seem irritated that other people care. I suppose you’re trying to convince them not to care, or find support for your apathy. Either way, so that you’re more secure in that little world of yourself. It’s rather ironic. You make a post about how little you care about people you don’t know, on a message board full of people who will never see you. Maybe if you’re convincing enough, you can get them to stop caring about you.

Xwing1056

Originally posted by Xwing1056
I don’t understand why you would post this. You’re blithely atheist. You have no reason to mourn anyone’s death, unless you just feel like it. Are you trying to convince people that you’re completely self-absorbed? In that case, point proven.

You’re saying because he’s atheist, he is unable to mourn someone’s death.
That’s far from true. I’m atheist, does that mean I’m an unfeeling dickhead? No. It just means I don’t go to church, or pray to a god others believe in. You don’t have to believe in shit to mourn someone. You’re pretty much stereotyping every atheist into one group. It’s a big fuckin’ mistake to stereotype, makes it so you can’t really make a point about a ‘specific group of people’.

Originally posted by Xwing1056
You’re heartless. You don’t care that a girl died, because you didn’t know her. In other words, if it doesn’t affect you, it’s totally fine. Definition: Narcissistic, to the extreme.

Just because he doesn’t care about someone he had no feelings for, and did not know whatsoever does not mean he thinks only of himself. He knew nothing about her, didn’t even know she existed until the day he heard about her death.
Edit: As Shin put it, you don’t mourn for every person in the obituaries, do you? Does that mean we can call you narcissistic too?

Originally posted by Xwing1056
You seem irritated that other people care. I suppose you’re trying to convince them not to care, or find support for your apathy. Either way, so that you’re more secure in that little world of yourself. It’s rather ironic. You make a post about how little you care about people you don’t know, on a message board full of people who will never see you. Maybe if you’re convincing enough, you can get them to stop caring about you.

He’s irritated that people put her on a pedestal all of the sudden just because she died. Sure, they should mourn her, but the people that didn’t even know her shouldn’t have a reason to mourn her. In his words, they’re being ‘fake’.
Bringing in the whole messageboard piece of this argument, why should you care, seeing as you said it doesn’t matter, then why did you feel you had to post?
Sorc needs no support for himself. He seems to have done fine thus far, and it’s not very ironic, because maybe he feels like he knows some of us on here. Hell, him and 984 live in the same town, that or pretty damn close.
Edit: Sorc, if I’m wrong in what I said about you being mad, just yell at me :stuck_out_tongue:

So youre saying all atheist’s are blank emotionless dolls? How can you even say something like that? Dude, do you look at your Obituary in oyur paper, and sit there and cry about it? Think before you post dude. I feel sorry you feel that way…

Originally posted by Xwing1056
You’re heartless. You don’t care that a girl died, because you didn’t know her. In other words, if it doesn’t affect you, it’s totally fine. Definition: Narcissistic, to the extreme.

Or, alternately, it’s having sufficient respect for life or for the deceased person as a human being that you will not lower yourself to disrespecting the dead with self-serving hollow displays of emotions one does not feel, just to help yourself “get ahead” by scoring Sensitivity Points.

Fake sympathy is an affront to the dead and to the living who genuinely miss the person who touched their lives. And a selfish exploitation of them.

Originally posted by Xwing1056

I don’t understand why you would post this. You’re blithely atheist. You have no reason to mourn anyone’s death, unless you just feel like it. Are you trying to convince people that you’re completely self-absorbed? In that case, point proven.

Who has more reason to mourn a death: the atheist who accepts that death is the end, and all there is from this point on is rotting away in the ground as worm fodder, or the religious person who accepts the idea that there is a paradise of an afterlife awaiting those who were “good” or in some way or another “saved” while on earth?

In the religous world view, after death we go to a better place. There’s no reason at all to mourn that. In fact, perhaps one should be jealous of the deceased; they go to heaven while we’re stuck on earth with all its bullshit.

In the atheist world view: you’re dead, the end. Nothing. All over. Sad, really. Worthy of being mourned.

EDIT: Reading Sorc’s post, I gather that he is NOT “irritated that people care” but in fact he is irritated that people DON’T CARE but pretend to for the sake of good personal p.r. That is the main thrust of his point. You seem to have failed to pick up on that.

Originally posted by Xwing1056
I don’t understand why you would post this. You’re blithely atheist. You have no reason to mourn anyone’s death, unless you just feel like it. Are you trying to convince people that you’re completely self-absorbed? In that case, point proven.

My father is an atheist, and he is still saddened by his father’s death. Are you saying that his emotions are any less valid then those of a Christian’s?

He didn’t know the girl. How can he mourn for someone he didn’t know? If I were one of those people, I would feel terrible. Not because of the death, but because of what a hypocrite I would be.

And it depends on the kind of death. Like Sin said, even if I knew the person, I wouldn’t feel sad about their death if it was a drug overdose or someone imitating a stunt from Jackass or something. It would be their own fault. A drunk driver or a wrong target killing would be horrible.

Wind: You make me sick. Go to your room, write depressing poetry and crucify small mammals.

Originally posted by Steve
You’re saying because he’s atheist, he is unable to mourn someone’s death.
That’s far from true. I’m atheist, does that mean I’m an unfeeling dickhead? No. It just means I don’t go to church, or pray to a god others believe in. You don’t have to believe in shit to mourn someone. You’re pretty much stereotyping every atheist into one group. It’s a big fuckin’ mistake to stereotype, makes it so you can’t really make a point about a ‘specific group of people’.

I said that, since Sorcerer’s an atheist, he has no binding reason to care about anyone unless he feels like it. It’s not that atheists can’t care. He just doesn’t feel like it.

Just because he doesn’t care about someone he had no feelings for, and did not know whatsoever does not mean he thinks only of himself. He knew nothing about her, didn’t even know she existed until the day he heard about her death.
Edit: As Shin put it, you don’t mourn for every person in the obituaries, do you? Does that mean we can call you narcissistic too?

I may not mourn them individually, but it’s still sad that they died. I still care that they existed. I still sometimes pray for the departed. This matters to me, just as it matters that people I don’t know are mistreated constantly. Since I don’t know them, should I not care? Helping people without regard for yourself is the whole principle of benevolence. Literally, it means ‘wishing well.’ That’s all anyone expects you to do, when somebody dies. Wish her well, or at least her memory, and the people closest to her.

He’s irritated that people put her on a pedestal all of the sudden just because she died. Sure, they should mourn her, but the people that didn’t even know her shouldn’t have a reason to mourn her. In his words, they’re being ‘fake’.

Do you think no one genuinely cared that a girl died? Certainly, some people only pretended. It is scornful to be one of the pretenders, I agree, but I have no doubt that others truly cared. According to Sorcerer, there’s no reason to care about people you don’t know - as if all the people who didn’t know this girl, but still acted as if they cared, were really pretending, or at best misguided.

Why try to prove that? It’s simple. Knowing that people can and do genuinely care about others whom they don’t know, makes you less secure in not doing just that.

Bringing in the whole messageboard piece of this argument, why should you care, seeing as you said it doesn’t matter, then why did you feel you had to post?
Sorc needs no support for himself. He seems to have done fine thus far, and it’s not very ironic, because maybe he feels like he knows some of us on here. Hell, him and 984 live in the same town, that or pretty damn close.
Edit: Sorc, if I’m wrong in what I said about you being mad, just yell at me :stuck_out_tongue:

I thought about answering that. Normally, I wouldn’t go to a message board just to post about how wrong somebody is, but this stood out to me.

I still think it’s ironic to post on a message board that you don’t care about people you’ve never met ( unless the slight is intended ).

Xwing1056

Other people have done well enough speaking for me. Ya know, I told myself that given the circumstances around my being here these days is cause for me to just back out, however the things you’ve said to me just make me cringe. As such, I’m going to deal with every sentence of yours point to point, because quite frankly I’m fucking offended.

Originally posted by Xwing1056
You’re heartless(1). You don’t care that a girl died, because you didn’t know her.(2) In other words, if it doesn’t affect you, it’s totally fine.(3) Definition: Narcissistic, to the extreme.(4)

  1. Not exactly. Sure, I can be a jerk at times, but many, many people here have seen me fall to my knees on many subjects. I am far from heartless.

2)That would be correct. Tell me, why exactly, I should feel the need to mourn the death of someone that died that I not only had no relation too in any shape, way, or form, but I never knew at all? I assume you don’t light a candle everytime someone dies? Do you read the obituaries and shed a tear for every single person? Do you look at the death lists of those who died overseas and write a letter to their families explaining how grateful you are for them doibng whatever it is they did? No? I didn’t think so. So, why exactly, are you lecturing me on caring about people dieing?

3)That would also be correct. Like I said, I didn’t know this girl, I never met her, I heard her name maybe twice in relation to her school activities (cross country and track). So, to reiterate, why should I mourn the death of someone I don’t know? Do you?

4)Narcisstic? That’s just random. If anything, that is what this thread is about, people trying to make themselves feel better by saying great things about this poor girl - those people I quoted NEVER MET HER. That, is narcissisim. I was never shining the limelight on this poor girl, whom I’ve never met, and putting her up on that pedastal and praising her for things I heard about her doing. That’s what this post is about, people praising people for things they heard about someone doing, for being a good person despite never meeting them. If you had bothered reading it, you would know that.

I don’t understand why you would post this(1). You’re blithely atheist(2). You have no reason to mourn anyone’s death, unless you just feel like it(3). Are you trying to convince people that you’re completely self-absorbed? In that case, point proven.(4)

  1. My reason for making this post was to make a general comment on how people today seem to overly glorify the dead. How, because someone is dead, they are suddenly a great person who did amazing things. Specifically, this girl. I had heard her name a few times on the intercom, so I knew she existed, and I knew she ran cross country and track on my school. Maybe I saw her in the hall one day. Maybe I bumped into her. Point is, I never had any real contact with this girl; I never had a conversation with her, I never ate lunch with her, nothing. My lack of affiliation with her is why I’m not mourning.

  2. And? What does this have to do with anything? I should call you a right wing conservative fucker for playing the religion card for no reason - but I won’t, even though I know you are. Athiesm is a lack of belief in a higher power, which has nothing to do with my mourning of the dead. My father died, despite my dislike of him, It sucked he was gone. As such, I mourned. I was an athiest then, just like I am now. So what’s your point?

  3. No, not at all. I won’t mourn someones death if I don’t know them. Why should I? What would they care? Would they want a complete stranger mourning over their death? Would it matter to them anyway? No, I don’t think so. So why should I belittle them with my bullshit? Why should YOU belittle them with YOUR bullshit?

  4. I may be arrogant, but that still has nothing to do with anything. I don’t know where you got this whole narcissistic image of me, because I try relativly hard to make sure people don’t think I’m Hades.

You seem irritated that other people care.(1) I suppose you’re trying to convince them not to care, or find support for your apathy.(2) Either way, so that you’re more secure in that little world of yourself.(3) It’s rather ironic. You make a post about how little you care about people you don’t know, on a message board full of people who will never see you.(4) Maybe if you’re convincing enough, you can get them to stop caring about you.(5)

  1. No, I should seem irritated that people who never knew this girl are suddenly praising her like she was christ reincarnated.

  2. You suppose wrong, I’m merely ranting and raving about society as a whole uses the death of people to stroke their own egos by mourning for the death of people they’ve never met to make themselves feel like less of a shitty person. Like I said, if you had actually read any of my thread, you’d understand that.

  3. What little world? The world where friends and family mourn the death of a beloved, as opposed to random strangers they’ve never seen or heard from joining in and disrupting them in their mourning process? I’ve had family members die before, I know how obtrusive it is - and let me say that my mom worked in a funeral home for 6 years, I’ve attended numerous wakes and seen the famalies meet just absolutly random people that they had never even heard of. It’s just more people, which is often time a pain in the ass.

  4. I can see your point. However, I’ve been ranting about this for the last few days with my friends in real life, and seeing as how often times this is an appropriate place for discussions dealing with a varied number of subjects, I figured I would open the doors here as well. I see little to no problem with that at all, and besides, as you so pointed out, I may never meet any of these people, so why am I even here in the first place? Why are you? Why are any of us? By what your saying, we’re all just wasting time here.

Overall, you just spouted bullshit nonsense about me, someone whom you’ve almost never, ever talked too, someone who you know little about at all, no direct contact with me ever. So, why do you take it upon yourself to not only try to insult my being, but my lack of belief? Do I offend you that much? I haven’t done anything to you, ever, but you some how seem to desire to need to put me on the hotspot and try and fight me. I don’t need a reason, I don’t really care. Keep it to yourself. Anything you say ever, from now on, will never be taken seriously by not only myself, but a number of the people here, as if it ever was. After seeing what you’ve posted in the past, you’ve sealed whatever fate you had here. You’ve made yourself look like a complete and utter fool. And for that, all I can do is laugh.

edit Upon your response, you seemed to completly miss my point. My thread was about people that pretend to care when they don’t, for the sole purpose of feeding their own egos. You must have missed this when I initially said it.

Originally posted by Cybercompost
My father is an atheist, and he is still saddened by his father’s death. Are you saying that his emotions are any less valid then those of a Christian’s?

Oh no. Only that he has no binding ( read: religious ) reason to care about people unless he naturally feels like it. His emotions, either way, are valid.

Xwing1056

So Xwing.
In essence, what you’re saying is religion forces you to care about people, even if you don’t. So you’re pretty much saying that because someone’s religious, whether they like the person or not, they’re supposed to care about the person, whether they died from a drug overdose, a drunk driver, getting hit in the head, or who knows what other reasons there could be. You’re telling everyone here that because of religious beliefs, someone who died from a drug overdose, or suicide, would be mourned the same way they would be if they died from a car accident cause by a drunk driver in the other car, or died of old age?
What you seem to be doing is advocating the same behavior Sorcerer here is pissed off about, caring about someone because someone else tells them that’s what they should do.

An atheist believes that there is no God, and no reality beyond the universe as we rationally perceive it. That humans might have an inherent worthiness of being cared for is anathema to a true atheist. That’s part of what Sorcerer, being an atheist, was arguing.

I mentioned that he was an atheist to indicate that
1: His views were already clear, since he’s frequently defined them as atheistic. And,
2: Not everyone is an atheist who will follow and agree with his reasoning.

Xwing1056

Sorc: I understand that you feel no sympathy for the girl. Hardly knowing someone is a good reason. shruges Been there, done that.

I don’t wanna tell a story but I know exactly what he feels. No sympathy for a person. Know the feeling.

Death, I’ve experienced too much of it to even cry at it… I’m use to it. I know it sounds cold but, meh?

Originally posted by Sorcerer
Other people have done well enough speaking for me. Ya know, I told myself that given the circumstances around my being here these days is cause for me to just back out, however the things you’ve said to me just make me cringe. As such, I’m going to deal with every sentence of yours point to point, because quite frankly I’m fucking offended.

If you’re offended that I called you heartless, maybe you should re-read your own post. You said that people who care about others whom they don’t know are ‘full of sh*t.’ I, for one, try to be one of those people. Should I also be offended?

1) Not exactly. Sure, I can be a jerk at times, but many, many people here have seen me fall to my knees on many subjects. I am far from heartless.

Maybe you’ve misrepresented yourself in this thread. You won’t change my mind that caring about people you don’t know is vital to having a heart, but you may not wholly mean what you’ve said. Personally, I’ve only seen the side of you that doesn’t much care ( for example, in We Have An Announcement and Bye Bye Manus ).

edit Upon your response, you seemed to completly miss my point. My thread was about people that pretend to care when they don’t, for the sole purpose of feeding their own egos. You must have missed this when I initially said it.

That may have been your main point, but you still made other assertions along the way. I’m not inventing this. Your friend said, “God bless Katherine Evans,” which is entirely appropriate - but your response was, “Why? Because she’s dead?” No, because she just died. You said, “What this tells me is that people, when someone dies, are generally full of sh*t.” Why? Because they say things like, “God bless her”? Is it so hard to accept that they genuinely care?

Xwing1056

First of all, most of those people who mourned that girl who got killed in the tractor accident were not pretending. Their emotions were very real, and when they spoke, they were speaking from the heart. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean they cared about that girl. Let me explain.

Emotions travel from people to people and sometimes you can get very emotional by being in a crowd that’s very emotional. For instance, recently everyone has been talking about how angry and cynical this board was becoming. Everyone kept trying to come up with reasons, but nobody could really pinpoint it. It was almost as if a wave of negativity just swept over everyone. You see that a lot in life - waves of emotions just sweeping over communities, even whole nations, and most of the time you can’t really explain it. For instance, remember all the grief and fear and anger after 9/11? The vast majority of people who felt those things hadn’t lost any relatives or friends in the tragedy, and yet they weren’t pretending just to be ‘fake’ or whatever. They had just gotten caught up in the emotions. Have you ever been to the funeral of someone who you didn’t know that well? The funny thing is that you just get caught up in the emotions… you don’t necessarily feel grief for the death of the person, but you do feel SOMETHING, you feel something strong. It’s the same thing with church - even if you don’t believe, as long as you stay awake you can often see why some people go to church every week, to feel the postive emotions that just seem to flow over the place. That’s probably the way it was with that girl you knew - of course those people weren’t necessarily grieving for her because most of them didn’t know her, but whenever a big event happens(like 9/11 or the death of a member of a community), it often unleashes powerful emotions over large groups of people. Just because their words were false, doesn’t mean their emotions were.

EDIT: Obviously, Sorc, you were not caught in the emotions this time, and that’s not bad at all. What I"m trying to say is that just don’t assume that everyone is obeying etiquette codes or whatever - a lot of them probably are really feeling.

Originally posted by Xwing1056
[b]An atheist believes that there is no God, and no reality beyond the universe as we rationally perceive it. That humans might have an inherent worthiness of being cared for is anathema to a true atheist. That’s part of what Sorcerer, being an atheist, was arguing.

I mentioned that he was an atheist to indicate that
1: His views were already clear, since he’s frequently defined them as atheistic. And,
2: Not everyone is an atheist who will follow and agree with his reasoning.

Xwing1056 [/b]

That was no response to what I said. That was just a post on a completely different topic. It’s not his beliefs in question. Nothing is in question. I was just asking exactly what you said in that post.

Edit: I hope this isn’t seen as flaming, I really wanna know :stuck_out_tongue:

Xwing. What the fuck are you talking about? “Atheists only care when they feel like it.” Of course they do. Everyone only cares if they feel like it. SO you are saying you automatically care about everything? You confuse me. (You be a crazy son of a building block)

Originally posted by Wind Storm of Etequa
I knew a person who commited suicide his name was Tyler, I didint know him yet every one was crying about it even people that didint even know him. Im happy he is dead I believe that humans are filth placed on this accursed planet to destroy eachother for the fickle gods sake.

ERROR: ANGST OVERLOAD

(I am just kidding :kissy:)

I told you what I meant when I brought up atheism, but I can give you my opinion on this too if you’d like.

Originally posted by Steve
So Xwing.
In essence, what you’re saying is religion forces you to care about people, even if you don’t.

A religion can’t force you to ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ For a person who believes, though, this commandment is a binding reason to care about other people.

So you’re pretty much saying that because someone’s religious, whether they like the person or not, they’re supposed to care about the person, whether they died from a drug overdose, a drunk driver, getting hit in the head, or who knows what other reasons there could be.

I’m saying that, if a religion teaches That, and someone believes in that religion, he has a binding reason to do That, which an atheist would not have.

You’re telling everyone here that because of religious beliefs, someone who died from a drug overdose, or suicide, would be mourned the same way they would be if they died from a car accident cause by a drunk driver in the other car, or died of old age?

If a religion teaches you to mourn all deaths, and someone believes in that religion, he has a binding reason to mourn all deaths, which an atheist would not have.

What you seem to be doing is advocating the same behavior Sorcerer here is pissed off about, caring about someone because someone else tells them that’s what they should do.

My mention of atheism doesn’t advocate anything. I’ve told you all that I meant to say there, in my last post to you.

But my answer is, yes, you should care about people because it’s the right thing to do. Not because I say so, but because it is. People have a natural capacity to discern right from wrong. If you would drop your atheistic rationale for a moment and let yourself consider this, you would recognize that caring about people you don’t know is definitely right. It may sound silly and childish, but only because some people begin to ignore their consciences as they get older. My experience has been evidence enough for me to believe this. I’ve learned how fulfilling it is to be a good person.

Xwing1056

What leads you to believe that we have a natural sense of morality (“discernment of right from wrong,” I believe you said)? If we do have one, it’s got to be much narrower than the ones we practice. The Spartans used to leave their female children outside the confines of their cities to die, didn’t they? Evil as that was, it was accepted by the Spartans and continued for who-knows-how-many years.

If we were ingrained from birth with a moral sense, we wouldn’t need parenting and religion to mold us into decent examples of our species.

Just as you say I am blithly athiest, from the things you’ve written, I’d have to say you are blithly christian.

I have to disagree. I don’t think humans have a strong natural sense of right and wrong.

Oh yea, and I was offended because you called me Narcissistic, which I most certainly am not, and I’m hardly self absorbed.