Morals and Ethics

The Core RPGC Main Forum
1

So my theology class is mostly focusing on the two subjects mentioned in the title. And yes, this could be like homework, but it’s not. More like I’ll end up taking what I learn/debate in class and bring it here, along with some of the more noteable arguments.

As for now, I’ll start off with a piece of homework I did. Rate on a scale of 1-5 (strongly agree-strongly disagree) your opinions on the following.
<OL type=“1”>
<LI>There is never a good occasion to lie.
<LI>There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.
<LI>Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.
<LI>It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst.
<LI>Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it.
<LI>People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.
<LI>Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment.
<LI>It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.
<LI>It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.
<LI>Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed.
</OL>

This is both religious and social morals/ethics, so both will be reflected. I’ll post mine up either in the AM or when I get home from school. I’ll update this whenever I get a new topic.

2

EDIT: Meh, I’ll just give my ratings.

  1. 4 - There are occasions when lying is the best thing to do, to stop feelings being hurt and people being put into unneccesary situations.

  2. 2 - Cheating on tests is stupid. If you didn’t put the effort in to learn your stuff then you deserve to fail.

  3. 5 - Abortion is needed in certain situations such as the mother dying and killing her baby if she continues the pregnancy and where the woman has been raped. No child should EVER be concieved of a rape.

  4. 3 - I don’t really have any opinion on this to be honest.

  5. 5 - Sexual experimentation is one of the greatest things in life.

  6. 5 - People shuold not be forced to worship god. Worshipping is all about the stigma placed on you by other people, it should be your choice whether you wish to worship or not.

  7. 4 - Some people are better off dead than being allowed to continue to live.

  8. 4 - Having the age restriction high DOESN’T stop underage people from drinking no matter what. At least if the age were lowered, then minors wouldn’t have to go to extraordinary and often illegal means to aquire alcohol.

  9. 1 - Rasicm needs to be eradicated. Unfortunately this won’t happen until we’re all one colour.

  10. 5 - This may be the sex-starved teenager in me talking but being able to look at pornography should be our choice. It doesn’t debase human sexuality, it is PART of human sexuality. Couples can look at porn to gain more knowledge and learn about more moves while also looking at violent porn enables me to relieve tension and release those urges occaisonally.

3

Heh… asses.

4
  1. 4
  2. 4
  3. 4
  4. 1
  5. 5
  6. 5
  7. 2
  8. 4
  9. 1
    10.4

There. If you wanna know why, too bad. :-p

5

There is never a good occasion to lie.

  • Disagree. I dunno, the “Do I look fat in this?” question is generally accepted to be lied with. If only to make someone feel better and to make my life easier.
    There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.
    -Agree. I hate cheating.
    Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.
    -Strongly Disagree. Regardless of whether life begins at birth or conception, until it comes into this world it feeds off and lives off the mother. If the mother cannot take on that burden, then something has to be done. Adoption is such a weak thing in that children aren’t adopted as often as they should be and so on.
    It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst.
    -An arms race? Well, yeah, I guess I agree.
    Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it.
    -Fuck that. Life just isn’t fun without it.
    People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.
    -Strongly disagree. People have the right to worship or not, it isn’t an obligatiobn - it’s a decision.
    Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment.
    -Strongly agree. In a system where rehabilition is the primary goal, ending someone’s life doesn’t seem justified.
    It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.
  • Disagree. If you look at other countries with lower drinking ages, you see a lower rate of alcoholism and a lower rate of alcohol related car accidents. Given time, I think the same would occur here in America.
    It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.
    -Strongly agree.
    Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed.
  • Strongly disagree. People have the right to do with their bodies what they wish. If it’s posing nude or whatever - so what? People buy it, and it pays the bills.
6
  1. 2
  2. 1
  3. 5
  4. 2
  5. 5
  6. 5
  7. 3
  8. 3
  9. 1
  10. 4
7
  1. 1, i dont think there is a good reason to lie, ever. Simply dont answer the question, or make some kind of sarcastic joke.
  2. 1, Cheating is lame. If you cant do the work then why are you in the class (or whatever it is)
  3. 3, im neutral on abortion.
  4. 2, i kind of agree, but by that thinking the rich country should just give all of their money to the poor country.
  5. 2, I agree about sex, but what does ‘the events leading up to it’ intitle?
  6. 4, You cant make someone believe something.
  7. 3, Neutral.
  8. 2, Drinking age is fine where it is.
  9. 1, I think this is pretty obvious.
  10. 2, I dunno about outlawing it, but it DOES debase human sexuality.
8
  1. 4
  2. 3
  3. 3
  4. 2
  5. 3
  6. 1
  7. 3
  8. 4
  9. 1
  10. 3

ok…I think I put the numbering system backwards…or maybe I didn’t.

9

There is never a good occasion to lie.

Not true. Though keep in mind that lie will eventually come back and bite you in the behind. And keeping track of all your lies can sometimes lead to you believing your false stories.

There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.

Never cheat on a test. When you hit postsecondary school, the punishment for cheating is much more severe.

Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.

No comment. I believe it should be allowed, but I don’t want to get into the reasons why here.

It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst.

YES.

Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it.

I disagree. Though I do believe that the couple should get married if they end up having a child together.

People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.

I disagree. Though people should find their own faith and live by that.

Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment.

No opinion, sorry.

It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.

It wouldn’t make a difference. Underage drinking will always be happening. Same with drug use; people will do it even if there’s a law against it.

It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.

Absolutely.

Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed.

I disagree; there’s a huge difference between erotica and pornography. Pictures or videos of an adult nature that promote abuse or inhuman treatment should be outlawed.

10
  1. 4
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 1
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. 4
  8. 5
  9. 1
  10. 5

Wow, not a three to be found. That ain’t good.

11

Gonna give my ratings along with my assessment of the questions as I found some of them to be misleading and/or poorly worded.

  1. 4

  2. 1

  3. 3 (Semi-bunk question. Requires one opinion on “great assault” and “never justified,” but I guess the two are strongly linked)

  4. 3 (oh my lord, what a loaded question. Requires passing an opinion on arms race, helping the poor, and trading guns for butter all in one fell swoop. Never mind the fact that some people may be opposed to arms races and government welfare, so their opinion on just the arms race could be misused as to imply consent for welfare)

  5. 2 (Define events leading up to sexual intercourse. Fellatio? Heavy petting? Kissing? Holding hands? Puberty?)

  6. 5

  7. 3

  8. 5

a. 2 (only because it doesn’t define assess and judge. there are some cases where you can predict behaviour based on ethnicity, voting patterns for example)
b. 1 (if judge and assess is meant solely as a merit of one’s worth, which I assume is the context)

  1. 5 (I’m presuming our opinion must be given to the outlawing part. Otherwise, this is a poorly question that requires a person to give one sweeping opinion on two different issues, namely the debasement and outlawing)
12

1) There is never a good occasion to lie.
Strongly agree, because I’m not including little fibs and white lies. From my personal experience, lieing -> deep shit.
2) There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.
Strongly agree, what more is there to say?
3) Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.
Agree, although it would be strongly agree if justification were altered from never to mother’s life at risk.
4) It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst.
Strongly agree, war is bad, helping the poor is good.
5) Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it.
Agree, although there is too much ambiguity in the wording of “the events leading up to it.”
6) People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.
Agree. They don’t have to be part of an organized religion, but they should do something to recognize God and the importance of human life, even if it is just volunteering to help at a local food bank.
7) Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment.
Strongly agree, besides the possibility of error, death is not something that should be used as justice.
8) It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.
Strongly disagree. I’d almost go so far as to say it’s imprudent not to. If the drinking age were lowered, kids would have a chance to drink legally and learn moderation.
9) It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.
Obviously.
10) Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed.
Agree, pornography in general is rather impersonal, which to me seems contrary to sexuality.

13

Rate on a scale of 1-5 (strongly agree-strongly disagree) your opinions on the following. (Note: Anything over 5 is in symbolism of HOW FUCKING STUPID the statement is.)

(5) There is never a good occasion to lie.

(2) There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.

(3) Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.

(4) It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it
has so many poor people in its midst.

(5) Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the
events leading up to it.

(9999.3) People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.

(5.5) Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify
capital punishment.

(4) It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.

(1) It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.

(99) Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be
outlawed.

14

No theology teacher I’ve encountered has been prepared for a serious discussion of morals.

1.There is never a good occasion to lie. (5)
2. There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test. (5)
What does “good” mean and why does it matter? The statement assumes there is such a thing as “good”; so what is it? If “goodness” is some sort of abstract system by which to judge behavior, then what evidence is there of its existence, and moreover, how could anyone become familiar with it?

I think “goodness” is a construct that allows people to enforce their disapproval of others: people who want to say, “I disapprove of your behavior,” have much more power when they state, “Your behavior is evil.” This system of control works because people are raised to believe that good and evil exist and matter. People are taught that the world would fall into a bloody chaos without some absolute morality.

I don’t think so: why don’t friends murder each other? Is it because some abstract morality states, “You shall not murder your companions”? No. It’s because people don’t want to murder each other, don’t want to live in a world where people murder each other.

The ultimate message of morality is, if you do “evil” things, you’ll be punished - and I think that’s false. Not everyone who’s “evil” gets in trouble. I also think it’s a pretty pathetic way to live: to be “moral” so that some divine presence doesn’t frown at you.

  1. Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified. (5)
    What’s “justification” and why does it matter? I’m against late abortion because I don’t like the idea of a semi-conscious human being killed. It’s not a matter of morals; I’d just like the world better without late-term abortion. Again, the assumption of the question is that one party is “morally right”. No, that’s not it. It’s a matter of different groups trying to enforce their will for how the world should be.
  1. It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst. (5)
  2. Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it. (5)
    What’s “wrong” and why does it matter? I don’t like the idea of an arms race right now, since there are other ways I’d prefer to have money spent. On the other hand, if there were a compelling reason to have an arms race (i.e., a reason I cared about), of course I’d support it.

As for sex outside of marriage … um, if you want to deprive yourself of pleasure, I don’t see why not. However, I don’t see any benefits in doing so … and you’re missing out on a lot …

  1. People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it. (5)
    I don’t need to ask who God is, since I’ve heard plenty. Here’s a better question: if he exists, why does he matter?
  1. Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment. (5)
    As I said, what’s “justification” and why does it matter? I can think of instances when I’d support capital punishments, and many more when I would not. It’s not that I think sometimes it’s “right” and others “wrong”; it’s just what I’d prefer.
  1. It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.(5)
    I’m not especially concerned about the “dangers” of my drinking becoming legal. I’d be quite pleased, really.
  1. It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin. (rephrase the statement to, “You disapprove of judging by skin color,” and my response is 1)
    Beyond the fact that “wrong” doesn’t mean anything, I have extreme distaste for people who intentionally judge others by skin color.
  1. Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed. (5)
    The ugly pornography of modern times has come about because people vilify sex. Ancient and Renaissance artists viewed the naked human body as beautiful, more than ever when engaged in sex. I see absolutely nothing degrading in these artists’ renditions of the human body. What is degrading is the modern notion that the naked body is vulgar, and inappropriate for viewing.
15

Morals/ Ethics + Experience +Opinion: = Complete and utter crap.

“Oh, in my past I learned (1), and experienced (2) as a bad thing, so it must be good for everyone to follow the rules of (1) and not do (2). Therefore, let’s make it a moral.” …

16

DT is right :frowning:

Reading Urk’s opinion on abortion especially, was probably the 10 most wasted seconds of my life. Of course, he wasn’t aborted, so it’s okay for him to make such retarded comments in his comfy little life-sofa on the inner net where his morals lord over the physical lives of human beings. I’m talking about the rape scenario by the way. Just thought I’d specify because I know if I didn’t some idiot would assume I was talking about the other one.

17

Abortion can never be justified? Typical response. I don’t think anyone can really give a valid opinion on abortion until they get knocked up for whatever reason and have to go through that decision. All abortion-women aren’t evil. Sometimes it’s necessary for the baby or the mother or both.

I got into a debate with a woman who DID decide to abort, and she wasn’t any less human than I was. The father took off and she had no one to help her. I don’t even think she had a job at the time. Does that make her “unjustified” because she chose to spare the baby from a shitty life? Yes, there is adoption but that doesn’t guarantee a wonderful life either. She couldn’t live knowing that her baby, the one should couldn’t have because her boyfriend split after knowing she was prgenant, would be given to other people and possibly harmed in the process of growing up.

Her words were something like, “Don’t ever judge me until you go through it.” I also believe this is a woman problem and that some guys aren’t giving enough thought as to what abortion is. Got to be cruel to be kind sometimes. So until YOU go through it fellas, keep your paladin reasonings to yourself.

18

I just think the only silly one on there is the one about God. People arent obligated to believe in a god, cause some of us just dont believe in them. I believe in “Gods” as much as can be prooven about them, they are story characters that cause us to govern our actions. Which is just dandy. Let them stay that way, but to say that people have to worship them is just cultist trash. Obligations are what we make of them, and I make THAT obligation a little pink bunny that I can kick in the nuts.

19

  1. 2

  2. 1

  3. 5

  4. 2

  5. 4

  6. 5

  7. 5

  8. 1

  9. 1

  10. 5

20

There is never a good occasion to lie.
1

There is never a good occasion to cheat on a test.
1

Abortion is a great assault on innocent human life and can never be justified.
5

It is wrong for a rich country to engage so vigorously in an armsrace when it has so many poor people in its midst.
5

Outside of marriage, it is wrong to engage in sexual intercourse and the events leading up to it.
5

People have an obligation to worship God, even if they don’t feel like it.
5

Given the efficiency of today’s justice system, it is virtually impossible to justify capital punishment.
3

It would be dangerous and imprudent to lower the age for legalized drinking of alcohol.
3

It is wrong to asses or judge a person by the color of their skin.
5

Pornography - both soft and hard - debases human sexuality. It should be outlawed.
2