:fungah: Why does the info of the database have a Mediator as a Trainer and vice versa? Look, I know a Mediator has the ability, “Train” but that doesn’t make them a Trainer. Sure they can boost/lower one’s Brave Faith, sure they can invite, Insult, proclaim Death, Put to Sleep, Convince one to wait their turn and Negotiate money. Does a Trainer do that? :no2: :noway: NO! Why? Trainers have: !Catch !Tame and !Control. Another thing is Trainers use Knives and Whips, Mediators use Guns/Knives. Big difference. I wish someone would fix that database properly.
If you have a correction or addition, use e-mail, not the forum.
The Job section is based on the notion that most Jobs that have the same basic trait are grouped together. So basically any job that Steals is under Thief, any job that uses attack magic is under Black Mage, etc., even if the abilities don’t match up exactly.
Thank you, I really was unsure if I was supposed to post this here or not.
But here’s my response to that. Even though I haven’t seen Steal as within a non-Thief class, Dark Knight and Ninja would be put under Black Mages because of what little Black Magic they used? (Refer to FF1 on the Ninja, and FFX-2 for the Dark Knight)
Well… since it’s been started…
So Mediator has a few different skills than Trainer(or Beastmaster). Is that such a big deal ? Is Negotiate Gil even that big of a skill that it would totally change the class ? I mean, if you took the Negotiate Gil skill away fromt he MEdiator, would it ruin the job ? NO ! “why?” do you ask ? because… Train and Charm are the KEY skills to the job ! if you took those away, you would totally ruin the job. Negotiate Gil is just an added perk.
Yes it is a big deal. Why? Because it’s creating misinformation. Mediator is more of a person who does actions through words, not Commands (even though Commands and words are the same). There’s more to Mediator than “Negotiate” While “Invite” works like Charm, please note under Charm you’re not completely on the opponent’s side as a whole. Under Invite, however, you are (and it’s a full effect after the battle, too). Train only makes the enemy forcibly become onto your side when they are critical (and if you even wanted him/her to join it’s very risky) I hardly call just “Train” and “Invite” key skills.
LOL, then what are the key skills ? What makes the class what it is ?
Please note that when i say Charm, i mean Controll.
Doesn’t it say on the Compendium that it’s just a slight variation, anyway?
Creating a separate page would be like making a separate section for Behemoth and Humbaba; they’re pretty much the same thing.
You’re being too technical. The jobs aren’t based on specific “key skills”. In this case, Mediator/Trainer is someone who can control or deal with enemies. That’s it. Just like Chemist/Alchemist is someone who can do special things with items and Geomancer does special things with terrain. Separating classes based on specific skills is a recipe for making nearly every single class in every game have its own page.
I shall list them for you, if you are curious. :biggrin:
Note there is nothing of the sort that says !Control. Only “Invite” works similar to !Control. All it does is talks the opposing Human/Creature into joining your cause. Trainer, on the other hand has:
You’ll also note that Trainer in FFX-2 has the command !Pet and more. See why I was getting technical? Now…if it was to say:
Catagory: Trainer Types
Then listed Trainer, Mediator and such, THEN I could understand why. But like I said before, Why dub Mediator a Trainer due to having the Support ability “Train”? Please also note, I am not snapping or being a mean person. I am just giving you guys something to think about. I’m not saying I am completely right, I am merely throwing out an idea. (I apologize to anyone who took offense to this thread.)
Main Entry: 3train
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French trainer, from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin traginare; akin to Latin trahere to draw
1 : TRAIL, DRAG
2 : to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying
3 a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient
4 : to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill
5 : to aim at an object or objective : DIRECT <trained his camera on the deer> <training every effort toward success>
1 : to undergo instruction, discipline, or drill
2 : to go by train
Of all the talk commands you are training your enemy in some way to get a reaction desireable to what you want. Look at 3, To form by instruction, discipline or drill. The Mediator does all 3 of these Persuade, Preach and Negotiate are instructions, Praise, Threaten, and Insult are forms of discipline. Mediators are in fact training classes, as Cid said, you are being way too technical.
You know, I say this to a lot of people and I usually don’t mean it - but dude, take a trip outside. Even if you’re just taking out the trash.
You should really look at how incredible the Compendium is, as opposed to nit picking insignificant details such as this. It trivializes the tremendous amount of work and effort Cidolfas has put into the Compendium.
Au contraire, if it weren’t for nitpickers the FFC wouldn’t be as great as it is.
But I stand by my earlier comments that this is just too technical. Trainers/Mediators work with animals. That’s all there is to it. Being excessively nitpicky about that kind of thing would result in almost every class being a class all to itself (and destroying the whole point of the Job page).
Cid, yeah, thats what i was meaning. It was the working with animals thing that i was going for with the “key skills” thing. Just saying, ya know, that the job wouldnt really be useful without those skills.
Yes, I do agree with Cid. I also said that this wasn’t to change what he wrote, just showing him what I saw. I will admit however, that the compendium really has helped me. Hell, he solved the damn problem as to what Job Classes Garnet/Eiko/Yuna are: White Summoners. I’m willing to guess Rydia’s a Black Summoner. Anyway, thank you, Cid and others for at least explaining to me about this all. :biggrin:
Unless you teach Yuna black magic… then she becomes a Red Summoner !
You COULD say that, but think about it for a moment. Each character excels at something, and that’s what Job Class they fall under. But just because they excel at one ability does not mean that they don’t have limited use of another, nor does it really change their class from say, summoner to a black summoner. Following those rules, Young Rydia would be a white black Summoner, which sounds kind of funny, doesn’t it?
What I’m trying to say is that a few different abilities here and there doesn’t really change the job class of the character. They’re still a summoner, etc. Unless it’s a case of a black and white (red) mage, or perhaps a knight with an extensive magic list (becomes a Dark Knight).
EDIT: My bad, Cless.
Oh my <i>God</i> OFX did you not even read the thread?
Yes, did you? -_-
People generally won’t know they’re being too technical until I tell them they’re too technical. I prefer to hear what they have to say and then make a decision about that rather than refuse to hear things because they might be “too technical”.