Higurashi discussion thread

This thread is to discuss what the fuck could be going on in this anime. You’d better have watched all eight episodes >:(

This spoiler pertains to episodes 5-8:

[spoiler]Mion-Shion switch:

Here’s what a friend and I came up with.
Let’s call the good girl that Keiichi knows and goes to school with, and the one that really likes him, Mion. Let’s call the evil psychotic twin Shion. The younger sister, however, has the Sonozaki family inheritance tattoo whereas the real successor doesn’t.

The theory goes that Shion is the elder twin, and the successor to the Sonozaki family. Mion is older sister in name only, and doesn’t do much in terms of yakuza business. Shion is the one that went with Keiichi into the shrine, and consequently knows about everything. Why? In the tea-bringing scene on the night of the festival, Shion seemed quite the extortionist. She embarassed Mion but Mion didn’t say anything about it.

After the shrine adventure, Shion mentions a “bang-bang” sound. This could be a test to see if Keiichi noticed something, possibly the forbidden thing that was a big enough secret to kill both Takano and Tomitake.

Mion tries to give a hint to Keiichi to leave Shion alone afterwards, but Keiichi kinda ignores it.

Shion comes to school to see if what kind of response Keiichi gives when he’s asked about being with Takano and Tomitake. He gives a sort of vague response, so that’s good, but then she asks if Keiichi was with Shion last night. Keiichi replies by saying, “Didn’t you ask me that yesterday?” and so shows that Mion suspected something. She then goes off and basically says that she’ll protect Keiichi. Since she’s head boss 'n shit of the entire town, Keiichi stays alive while the other three eventually disappear.

Later, he meets with Mion in the library. She wanted to talk about Takano and Tomitake’s deaths, but couldn’t say it in front of the detective. She later phones Keiichi to talk about it, but Keiichi goes ape-shit crazy on her. She gets angry. She also does something that we don’t know about, except that it made Shion really, really mad.

In the next episode, Rika mentions that both the elder and younger sister “cats” are angry, and that it’s probably a good idea to leave the elder “cat” alone. So Shion is really pissed off, probably by the “evil act” that Mion is supposed to have committed. At this point I think the storywriters are trying to throw us off and make us think that going into the shrine was the evil act, but I don’t think that was that big of a deal, especially since I think that Shion is the one who led them in there in the first place, and Mion is supposed to be the one who had done the “evil act.”

Maybe the “evil act” involves both Mion and the village elder, who is conveniently head of one of the three families. Those two mysteriously disappear. What happens after Rika’s conversation is all Shion. For the scenes that aren’t Shion (i.e. the Rika/Satoko investigation scene where she flips out), it’s her posing as Mion.

It is Mion who’s in the prison cell. Shion put her there, and after she knocks Keiichi out, she kills Mion, disguises her as herself, and puts her in the well where all the other dead bodies are. She then gets “rescued”, and stabs Keiichi in the stomach. I think then she poses as Shion, jumps off the building, but doesn’t quite die, and maybe is taken to a morgue that is in the same hospital as the one Keiichi is recovering in. That explains the blood on her face and hands in the end.

Of course, this doesn’t explain how Takano is supposedly “dead” the night Keiichi and co. went into the shrine…[/spoiler]

Okay I have a couple of problems with this.

[spoiler]To me it was pretty clear at the end that Mion was Mion and Shion was Shion, and neither were impersonating the other. My theory goes there are actually three people wandering around as Shion and Mion:

Mion: The nice girl Keiichi knows and goes to school with, who nevertheless has a pretty jealous and petty side, which I’ll explain my reasoning for in a second. She’s only the one in episode eight which talks about trying to protect Keiichi while the others died. She’s the true succesor to the Sonozaki family. Remember that unlike Shion, she was toting a gun in a shoulder-holster throughout one entire episode, and no-one, not even Oshi-san, commented on it. Also remember what she says at the end; this entire thing started because Keiichi gave that doll at the start of the arc to Rena and not her.

Shion: Mion’s sister, who is basically trying her damnedest to keep Keiichi alive and using Mion’s good side to do it. Notice her reaction to Mion when she sees her in the prison-caves, she’s utterly terrified. As a member of the Sonozaki family she knows everything about the village, but doesn’t like it. She does her best to save Keiichi, and like you said was making digs at Mion before the festival.

The Demon: Here’s where it gets weird. Remember the doll ‘Mion’ said started all this off? Mion’s jealously called up the demon, and so the arc began. When ‘Mion’ is talking about having watched Rika kill herself, murdered Satoko, Takano and Tobitake, and thrown them all in the well, she always refers to herself in the third person, i.e. “Mion really liked you”. Also remember her words before she leaves Keiichi tied up in the tortureroom: “The next time you see me, it’ll be me possessing her corpse.” To me this is pretty damning evidence that Mion is in fact the one with the demon tattoo, and that the demon is real. The last episode pretty much confirms this because a) Shion was dead by being thrown out of a window and b) Oshi-san had told Keiichi that Mion was found dead in the well, which goes back to the possessed corpse speech. At this point all that was left was the demon, and Mion was truly dead. This is the person Keiichi heard on the phone with ‘Shion’ that night, and who admitted to all those murders, and who murdered Keiichi at the end, to make sure the secret of Hinamizawa was contained within the village.[/spoiler]

So, so far throughout these two questions arcs we’ve got;

The Sonozaki family: Inheritors of the demon-soul, and the real heads of the village. One sister (Mion) inherited the demon and accepted it and became corrupted by it, the other (Shion) didn’t and doesn’t want it, but doesn’t dare actively do anything against it.

The villagers: By the way they responded to Mion when Keiichi was being threatened it’s pretty obvious they’re all in on the secret, and want Hinamizawa to return to what it was.

Rena: No idea. By what happened in episode one, she’s possessed either by the same demon Mion is, or by her own. Remember in the first arc she has no idea why Keiichi is so mean to her, and acts entirely innocent. This wasn’t an act, she genuinely had no idea.

Rika: Shrine maiden for Watanagashi, which was a cannibalistic ritual. She definately knows by the ‘angry cat’ speech to Keiichi, and doesn’t want him dead.

Satoko: She doesn’t know. Gut feeling.

Oshi-san: He knows and is trying to do his best, but also knows there is very little he can do against an entire village under demonic control.

Tobitake: He doesn’t know.

Takano: Now here’s a one. She definately knows, but she’s way, way more than just Tobitake’s girlfriend. She was basically a zombie when she went into the shrine with the others. My theory is Mion killed her and the demon temporarily possessed her, and led Tobitake on to make him open the storehouse and set everything in motion…[/spoiler]

We’re getting gradually more information, so next arc should make all this make a little more sense, or at least tell us where we’re wrong. We have two more question arcs and then the answer arcs, so everything should start making sense then.

I wonder what/who the next arc will focus on.

The episode preview seems to suggest that it’ll be about Satoko and her older brother.

[spoiler]I’m trying to get this explained entirely without supernatural elements >.>

If there they are actually triplets, then fine, everything might make sense, but the detective, or the villagers, or at least <i>someone</i>, would have found out about it. So I don’t think there are really three people. Possibly Mion or Shion is schizo, or insane, or both.

As for Keiichi giving the doll and hurting Mion’s feelings, it could be that Shion (evil) forms a bad impression of Keiichi from this, or something like that. There are too many “Didn’t you ask me this already?” “Oops! Did I?” moments with Mion/Shion to make me think that they’ve never switched identities throughout this whole fiasco. Mion <i>always</i> touts a shoulder-hoslter gun, so it’s not a big surprise, I guess. If you look closely, she was actually using it to defend herself against the suicidal Rika in the beginning blip of episode 5, so I think that might actually be Shion in Mion’s outfit.

I can’t really address the demon points, because I think there’s an entirely natural explanation for this anime >:( However, the third-person references make perfect sense if it was Shion speaking of Keiichi, and Mion was locked inside the cell. I don’t know how to properly explain that apparent both Mion and Shion are dead, one from being killed/thrown into the well, and the other from jumping off an 8-story building. It does strike me as suspicious, however, that Shion (evil) tasered the fuck out of Keiichi before the police busted in with Rena. <i>Anything</i> could have happened in between, including a switcheroo.[/spoiler]

As for the other facts:

The Sonozaki family: There was this one interesting theory on another forum about the Sonozaki family. It said that from some “tips” from the original game, twins were usually killed if born to a head-family, to avoid fighting for succession. In this case, however, they made an exception. One twin gets all the power, and the other lives a duplicate life in order to soak up all the ill will. If there’s an assassination attempt, they won’t even know which one to hit. I just took it a bit further - one twin actually lives pretty far away, possibly out of town, and pulls all the strings, while the other goes about her daily life as the heiress. Then, an assassination attempt would really <i>fail</i>, since the figurehead (Mion) would be killed and the real <i>manipulatrice</i> (Shion) left safe to retaliate. I guess they would go as far as to put the succession tattoo on Mion? Notice that in her house, assuming that Shion is the one talking to Rena and Keiichi, she never <i>actually showed</i> her tattoo, since Rena said it wasn’t necessary. Suspicious? I think so!

The villagers: They’re all in some crazy mafia gang conspiracy, or something. Maybe some of them really believe in the curse.

Rena: Rena is some kind of super-detective, or something, to deduce all that by a bottle of missing soy sauce. She is clearly both Mion and Shion’s friend, and wants the best for both of them. Her craziness in the first part might be Keiichi going all super-hallucinating on us. Remember how they both made reference to a <i>director</i> (which we think is the doctor guy who always shows up in a white van). Keiichi went to a doctor when he got a cold, and they said they’d give him a shot. <i>No one gets a damn shot for a cold!</i> I just didn’t trust anything that happened after he got a cold, because by that time he’s probably all hallucination-happy on us.

Rika: Rika got <i>killed</i> for defending Keiichi. So did Mion, eventually, but maybe not for defending Keiichi. Maybe she did something different, that was an “evil act”.

Satoko: Her brother knew.

Oshi-san: He’s a goddamn idiot. Zombie Shion walked right up to Keiichi right after he left.

Tomitake: Probably in the same boat as Keiichi. Notice how he got killed again by the throat-clawing thing. That happens, as we can see, probably by injecting some kind of crazy undetectable drugs in you. This time Takano didn’t go missing; she got burnt.

Takano: I really don’t know.[/spoiler]

I’m still trying for a no-supernatural explanation. My friend and I were thinking that each time it’s from the perspective of someone different made psychotic. First time, Keiichi was the one who was psycho and hallucinating all over the place. Second time, it was Shion who was the psycho bitch, and that Keiichi probably has a clearer and most trustworthy perspective of ohgodwhat’sgoingon. I can’t wait for the next episode :3

Phew, finally watched all eight. Man, the Demoned Away arc was the creepiest thing I’ve seen in a long time.

[SPOILER]I’m gonna go with Pierson here. While you might be able to get by with the no-paranormal-stuff approach, the ghost story is far, far more likely. There was a Mion/Shion switch though, but not a very relevant one: Mion was the one who gave Keiichi the packed lunch. Still, nothing important beyond evidencing her crush on Keiichi. I don’t think there’s a third body though, only a third consciousness. The Mion who killed Keiichi in the end can be explained in the same way as Takano, with the demon completely overcoming Mion and moving the body as a zombie.

The thing that bothers me the most is the lack of psychotic Rena on this scenario. Why is she relatively normal here when she was quite obviously working together with Mion in the Demoned Away arc?

There’s also another thing: I already deleted the chapter and don’t feel like downloading again, but right before Keiichi supposedly clawed his own throat open, wasn’t there something yellow behind him? I’m not 100% sure, but since Mion/Demon said that Satoko was the one who got cursed the worst of all, perhaps she was the Oyashiro Keiichi was talking about?[/SPOILER]

There wasn’t anything behind him. The very fact that Rena is not psychotic in this one makes me think that Keiichi was the one who was <i>really</i> psychotic in the first one. Or maybe she’s a crazy-ass yakuza who is out after the life of anyone who doesn’t fit in the town too, but she’s toning it down because a) M/Sh ion likes Keiichi, b) Keiichi is actually acting in a mildly intelligent manner in this arc, and c) M/Sh ion is crazy enough for both of them

I was really confused in the beginning when

[SPOILER] Keichi beat Rena and Mion with a bat and then clawed his throat out because they were all alive and well in the next episode. I thought then that this would be a genre whereit goes increasingly more introspective into the incident from different people’s perspective until the whole picture is painted.

I’ll go with the supernatural explanation as well. Rena says in that episode that " the demon found her" and whenever the girls were possessed they would have slit eyes (like a cats).

I think that Shion was actually in the cell because she told Mion that if she really hated her, she’d kill her. This is in reference to the time when Shion brought Keichi tea. Mion showed up with two and Shion made her chug both down. Mion then says that she hates her for playing her like that.

But this is what I’m not sure of:

If Takano was burned, how would the demon possess her body? It’d be burned. The demon can’t heal the body or put some sort of glamour spell over it as seen in episode 8 where Mion/Demon had blood all over her.

When Mion stabs Keichi she cackles triumphantly that she’s killed everyone with her own hands. This made me think that Mion was trying to restore the old village heritage by killing all outsiders.

I think the demon mark on Mion’s body is an actual cut and not a tattoo. Maybe scarred over by now. It would explain why the police thought it was Mion’s body they found in the well. Mion could have cut Shion and let it heal while she was locked up. It would then be Mion all the way until the final possession.

I guess she could have been dead for some other, less visible reason and then got burned when the demon had no more used for her.

Or maybe she just knows how to tattoo. The problem with this is that the police found a body that supposedly belonged to Mion in the well AND another that belonged to Shion in the street. Unless Mion threw her sister down the well, stole her body from the police and then threw her off that balcony (Or the other way around) it seems doubtful.

[spoiler]You guys think the arcs are just introspective of different people?

I thought it was pretty clear that the anime is in sort of a “game” format - each arc is what <i>would</i> have happened if Keiichi had done something a <i>little</i> bit different. The events in each of the individual arcs have little to do with each other. He got the “bad ending” twice in a row :/[/spoiler]

Lex said that, I don’t think so either.

I didn’t know that the anime was based on a game. I actually just saw this thread and decided to watch it.

<a href = “http://a.scarywater.net/wind/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni_09_[wind][xvid][BC2F0A16].avi.torrent”>Higurashiiiiiiiiiiiiii</a>

[SPOILER]Doesn’t it seem like Keichi is “learning” through the scenarios? For example, in Demoned Away he didn’t even know what Watanagashi or Oyashiro were, but he already knew during the Watanagashi arc. In the same way, the whole first chapter in that scenario was about Shion’s introduction, and he already knows her in this chapter. It could, and probably is, just the staff deciding to speed things up, but maybe the scenarios aren’t so much separate realities but one continuous time loop, and just a limited information gets carried over…

Well, psycho Rena is back, without shot this time. We get to see someone who could or could not be the so called Director/Manager. Oddly, Shion was the one who got freaked out when she figured out Keichi knew about the “transfer”, while Mion remained perfectly calm this time around. And Mion is still carrying the gun, isn’t she?[/SPOILER]

So, thoughts? Pierson? Lex? Agent Scully?

It seems pretty clear-cut that Satoshi is the body at the start of the episode. I’m guessing Rena and/or the Director dude killed him, the Director because he wanted Satoko all to himself, Rena because psycho Rena is back and pyscho Rena is <3. Too early in the arc to make any more judgements.

The thing you mentioned about information seems likely as well. Notice Keiichi accepting Mion’s explanation on the way home about not talking to Satoko about everything instead of freaking out like he would have had this been the first or second arc. He’s definately learning through experience.

[SPOILER] I think there two Managers/Directors working together. The doctor calls himself the manager of the baseball team but Shion is the real manager. The doctor could also get drugs easily. Ofcourse we don’t know if drugs will play a role in this arc.

The psycho Rena thing could be the demon again since she referred to herself in the third person when she went home. [/SPOILER]

Rena seems to flip out a lot about the curse thing. She’s probably had some kind of traumatic experience about it, but she did something that made it okay for her to come back and still live in the town (go insane? :P)

It’s fairly obvious she knows about the curse. My bet is she knows everything but doesn’t dare leave the town in case what happened to Satoshi happens to her.

Higurashi 10 is out.

Ooishi seems pretty evil this arc o.o

Satoko’s been repressing some major issues with her brother.