Final Fantasy VII thread

The Core RPGC Main Forum
1

Since when did the FFC forum become the only place to discuss FF anyway? Random thought.

Well, it only took 3 years of off and on playing, but I’ve finally finished FF7. Basically though I did all but the first seven hours of the game consistently through, that first part was played once or twice earlier before I started to get into the game. Obviously this is one of, if not the most talked RPG out there. Especially since it falls into the PSX realm, where more and more people will know it better than many SNES and earlier RPGs. It’s also widely considered to be one of, if not the best RPG. Here’s what I thought about it.

In all, I really liked the game. But, it took me a while to really get into it. The coolness of the prison break culminating with Sephiroth’s sword sticking out of the Shinra President aside, the game took a while to grab me. I think it was because the early main plot elements were seemed sort of trite or too obvious at first (big bad booboo company wrecking the environment and the underclass), and also because Cloud isn’t a terribly interesting character to me for a long while into the game, and I dunno, it just took me a while to get into it. The Dyne subplot was the precise moment when I got hooked into the game. He was an interesting parallel to both Barret and Sephiroth. That’s one of the things that I most liked about the game was the character development. I’ve only found FF6 and Deus Ex to do a matching job in terms of it. The subplots were particularly awesome. The aforementioned Dyne one, and it’s really cool where you find Red XIII’s father petrified on the canyon-top with spears sticking out of him stick out, and there are just so many. Yuffie’s sucked, as does her character :stuck_out_tongue:

Going with the characters, they were highly interesting. Sephiroth was of course Sephiroth, although I like how his decisions and opinion of his himself become problematised through the course of the story. Aeris is one of the most beautiful people ever created in any medium, and I don’t mean in terms of looks. All the other characters had their moments, and once you fully learn about Cloud and his background he becomes a more interesting personality.

The subcharacters were in my opinion what this game did the best job of. I’ve never played a game that did such an awesome job of fleshing out the tertiary cast. Rufus, Palmer, Scarlet, Heideggar, Hojo, the Turks, the list goes on. I particluarly liked the Turks because they’re very Tarantino, and Hojo was a really interesting character.

In all the plot progression was really nice, and it kept up its goodness through almost the game’s entirety. That in and of itself is a mean feat, FF8’s completely falls off the map about halfway through and even FF6 has the dreaded nonlinear World of Ruin. I don’t really understand what the big deal was with the materia system, it sort of just seemed basically like the FF6 system only a little more difficult to get the hang of. The game wasn’t too hard, the graphics are dated now but I could see them standing out back in '97 or whenever. Although, did anyone notice how the characters about halfway through went into block-mode as opposed to real-life mode during the FMVs? It was weird and it went back to the other way towards the end of the game.

And no, I didn’t care about chocobo racing or breeding or the Weapons or any of that level up stuff.

And Sinistral is a carbon-copy of Rufus. He needs to bring back that avatar.

And Vincent is the coolest, most interesting character, ev0rr

2

Heh I just did the Seto subplot today and it always gave me shivers.

I always loved the fact that they fleshed out Shinra, as well. They aren’t just employees, they’re characters, and usually secondard characters like that aren’t give much thought. But like I said I loved how they were all brought to life and werem’t generic bad guys.

3

FFVII is still an awesome game. Now you’ll reminded me of all the bits I remember I’ll probably go back and play it. It grabbed me personally as soon as I got out of midgar. I always hate the first few sections of most RPGs because they’re usually only scene-setting. I always loved the extra stuff they stuck in (Weapons own0r) like where you go back to the lab under the Nimbelheim mansion and see the flashbacks. They stuck in whole sections about character who without them would be just that little more one-dimension.

Plus, Sephiroth is just a badass.

4

I must say it is about time you finished FF7.

I think the bit that usually gets me hooked, is the flashback in Kalm. It just makes you want to get Sephiroth even more, and find out what REALLY happened at the end of the flashback.

And you’re right the sub-characters (Shin-Ra) were very nicely developed, and not just your typical 2D villian. They actually had some depth, as did several of the other characters, who were connected to the heroes backgrounds.

5

Heh I had emotional issues with Kalm too. Actually, seeing Jenova for the first time (brr) and waking up to see the cell is unlocked. From there on, the game is uber cool to me. I dunno, but I just always loved breaking into HQ’s, it was a big part of the game to me.

6

The creepiest part was the “Trail of Blood” part in Shinra HQ (I call it that because that’s the song’s title). I always get chills in that part, especially at that drum beat in the song every couple minutes. It’s just really quiet and eerie, then the drum beat makes it feel like something is jumping out at you. It uses the same song in the Gi Cave but it doesn’t have the same feeling there.

I’m replaying FF7 right now actually (Party members? Aeris and Tifa. Nice choice Cloud, they’re hot!) but I haven’t stopped to level at all yet and now I’m getting pounded for being so weak. Normally I overlevel so this is a change.

As far as plot goes, I think Red’s scene at the end of the Gi Cave was one of the most emotional scenes for me.

7

I played FFVII for the second time last September, after four years of not playing it, and I was hooked from the start. Personally, I think Cloud is the most interesting character I’ve seen in an RPG. The changes he undergoes throughout the game are brilliantly executed. He also has the coolest status screen portrait.

8

I like the points you make about characterizations, I feel that the level of depth they put into everyones story is amazing. Many MANY other games cheapen supporting cast, by only giving them minimal background that leads irrevocably towards their current state. FF7 does an amazing job of giving us enough background in the characters to see not only how they ended up where they did, but also, at what point their fate became bound by their decisions.

Here is my qualm about the game, and the point where this no longer applies: The three lead roles do not follow this trend. Sephiroth (who I still argue is not all that awesome), Cloud and Aeris are all bound to their fates completely, or offered some minimal choice as to their role.

For all the levels that they decided to add for the sake of making a real feeling world, I never quite felt that Cloud was enough of a person, or that Aeris could ever really exist (she was too humane) and Sephiroth seemed way too set up for his role. The game captured so much depth, but somehow seemed to leave me feeling as though the protagonists deserved to die, and that the antagonist deserved to be brain-washed and used as a machine of war by the people who had made him what he was.

Honestly now, long hair and a uselessly long katana-ish sword does not make cool, it only proves insecurity.

And materia wasn’t THAT bad, but I felt like it devalued the individuality of the characters a bit, because anyone could master KoTR and then Yuffie could use it at its mastered level. To me that just isn’t right at all.

And last but not least about my qualms with the game: not enough Turk time. Those guys would have made ten times better complications to the plot if they had been used more. I love the Turks, and wish that they had a little more of an active role in things.

A few things that I won’t hold against FF7 are the Weapons, the Mako cannon that is only useful when a Weapon is careening towards the city in a direct frontal attack and the Chocobo breeding. those are the sorts of things that are forgiveable.

I will not forgive, however, the bastardization of the moogle! Mog was A moogle, and a badass one at that. But starting in FF7 the word moogle disappeared, and mog came to define the creature’s species.

Fight for your right to slam-dance and wield spears!

9

FF7…not one of my favorate games, but doubtlessly a timeless classic.

I’d just like to say this…I liked Yuffie. >>;

10

I agree with everything Merl said, except that Yuffie sucked (Conformer + Morph, and other reasons) but I do agree that her subquest was awful.

I also agree with nothing Delita said, but I can’t really prove an opinion wrong. It just seems very unlikely to interpret FFVII the way he did. I didn’t feel that way at all.

11

I hear that the ending of FF7 was quite rushed and under developed…and Aeris wasn’t even scripted to die, etc. I think they pulled it off quite well but the ending is rather unsatisfying. I didn’t like how they just couldn’t pull things together.

12

FF7, while not the best FF, is an extremely well-done game. Unfortunately, it’s been ruined by the immature pricks who can’t comprehend that there are better RPGs out there.

Anyway, I had a few major beefs with the game. First, Aeris’ death is barely handled at all after about a third of the way through disc 2. Even though I knew about it before I even got the game (since everyone on the internet blabbed about it), it was still one of those “you son-of-a-bitch!” moments. Cutting the entire “Revive Aeris” subquest and subplot just cheapened the plot a bit (although Cloud constantly angsting over her death would have ruined things further).

Second, Cloud’s backstory, to this day, makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don’t want to take the entire post explaining it, but can someone tell me what the hell was going on with that guy?

And finally, the ending. No doubt one of the worst ever created. We get all this set-up, all this emotion and action building into a single moment, and- it ends. Just like that, it’s over. No closure, no sense of ending, nothing. I felt cheated when I saw it. While Square did create an open-ended feeling to the ending, they could have easily added closure without cheapening it.

13

Reviving Aeris would have totally cheapened the plot far more than not being able to revive her. FF4 made character deaths into a big joke, and I’m glad FF7 didn’t go the same route with Aeris. Now, I love Aeris, but I’m glad they handled it the way they did rather than having some happy-flower-sunshine-go-go-team revival quest added.

14

Well, he was being controlled by Jenova who in a sense was the real Sephiroth. Or maybe the real Sephiroth was Jenova because it did grow his body back (I read that Seph’s real body died in the lifestream). But either way, both personas were capable of manipulating Cloud because he had had Jenova cells injected in him to make him a Sephiroth clone. He was an utter failure, but unlike all of the other Seph clones (the people in black cloaks who killed Pres Shinra, came aboard the boat, etc, all clones) Cloud regained his momentum after watching Zack die. Zack was a first class SOLDIER and Cloud was just a normal shinra troop, and because he was so traumatized due to the injection and with everything Zack told him after he managed for them to escape Shinra mansion, Cloud took over HIS personality. Meaning after Cloud regained his sanity or whatever, he accidently mistook Zack’s actions as his own. So everything he remembered, was what Zack did. And throughout the game Seph/Jenova taunts him about this, but in reality, they are only telling Cloud the truth. Along with being experimented on by Hojo, Cloud was psychologically weak to begin with, since he never fit in as a child and he always tried to impress Tifa. Failing to make the cut into SOLDIER only amplified his insecurity and in a way made it a lot more easier for Seph/Jen to manipulate him.

That’s basically his problem, in a nuteshell.

15

I didn’t like FF7 that much. I think square does better when they focus on less characters ex: FF4, Chrono Trigger. You remeber the characters better that way and they seem to have more plot behind them. This also usually means that the characters have a reason to go after the main villan instead of going after him because he’s evil. It was also good idea on squares part to shift who the main villan was near the end of the game. Who whould know expect Zemus to be the final boss. They timed that just right in FF4 unlike FF9 in which they just put necron in at the last second.

16

Ugh, I hate when they shift the boss at the end. Zemus was an utterly stupid villain. You hate Golbez the entire game, and though it’s interesting to find out he wasn’t evil all along, Zemus is just stupid. He has as much depth as the Dragon Lord from Dragon Warrior 1. Harhar, I’m evil so I’m trying to destroy stuff! I’m hate! Yarr. When you’re fighting him, it’s not like there’s anything meaningful about it. I mean with Sephiroth, it feels justified and all that, but Zemus or Necron? Not really. I found myself saying ‘who are you?’ during those fights.

17

That’s probably because you see Necron in the last few minutes of the game. :stuck_out_tongue:

18

What was Necron anyways? It’s been awhile and Im totally confused

19

In my opinion, the first seven hours or so are far and away the best part of the game. The city of Midgar was a completely new environment for an RPG, and unlike earlier games, where a “city” consisted of six houses, it actually <i>looked</i> big, noisy and dangerous. There’s an incredible amount of attention to detail there, down to the graffiti on the walls, abandoned playgrounds, construction equipment, junk heaps, and neon signs. I’ve seen some cheap diners in real life that look <i>exactly</i> like the one in Wall Market. And then, of course, there were the brothels, the bars, the profanity, the night-time trains, the car commercials, the beaten-up churches, the crooked buildings, and so on, everything that could enhance the gritty atmosphere. The angular nature of the graphics is extremely well-suited to this setting. (Although a lot of the later environments, especially the city of the Ancients, are also excellent.)

Shinra, too, was a completely new sort of villain. (Previous RPGs were certainly far more “trite” in that particular regard.) There’s a scene in the beginning where Cloud and company face off against Rufus in the Shinra building, and Rufus demands to know who they all are, so they introduce themselves: “A girl from the slums,” “A mercenary,” and so on. Rufus sneers at them. At that moment, it is made expressly clear that their enmity is undercut not just by the protagonists’ concerns for the environment or by their status as “good,” but also by good old class struggle: they’re opposed to Rufus more because Rufus represents a stratum of society that is hostile to them than because Rufus <i>himself</i> is “evil.” This is in marked contrast to earlier RPGs, which could blissfully show a king working on the “good” side with a thief or a scientist or a caveman or something with no apparent problems arising from the difference in their backgrounds whatsoever.

Because it acknowledges such issues, the game is never just a tract against Shinra’s “evil.” For one thing, it honestly shows that the tactics used by AVALANCHE are often just as inglorious as the acts committed by Shinra, by admitting their tremendous cost. It should also be noted that Rufus is actually shown in a pretty sympathetic light throughout the game - at the very least, he’s much more courageous and likable than Heidegger or Scarlet. None of the game’s main figures are simple. And I agree completely about the attention paid to supporting characters: Vincent’s story arc was arguably the most powerful moment of the second half of the game. But hell, even Biggs, Wedge and Jessie are sketched out in pretty good detail considering their small roles.

Lastly, the direction in the game is just great. It can successfully establish a tense atmosphere (like when you slowly make your way back up the Shinra Tower after Jenova breaks loose, or when you explore the Shinra mansion), or a dreamy one, and then immediately fling itself into a much more intense pace. This is well illustrated in the beginning, when the camera first pans slowly over space, then speeds up a little and follows the train, and then just hurls itself into the train station to start the bombing mission.

20

9 is one of my favorate FFs (next to 6 and 8), and even I don’t really know that.