Spells and arrows, almost every single time. Anything that charges. Attacks obviously don’t apply since you just use them right away. There were many times when I looked at the turns list, seeing that my spell or whatever would hit WELL before the enemy got its next turn, and sometimes the enemy unit would even get two turns before it happened. I’ve lost fights because these little inaccuracies allowed enemy units to move after I cast summons on them, and I ended up “needlessly” obliterated my own army.

SE, in spite of you finishing the game, the number of times I’ve gotten halfway or two thirds through it before giving up has almost certainly logged me way more hours on this piece of shit than you’ve played :confused: It’s cool and all, how you seem to think you always know everything and everyone else never knows more than nothing, but I didn’t walk into an EBGames and play a 20 minute demo of this shit. I owned it for a very long time and explored all the classes and skills thoroughly even though the story was never compelling enough to bring me to the end, and unless the CTR totally rebuilds itself at around the time you get Orlandu and starts listing things that will happen in the order they’ll happen in, there’s really nothing you can do to make me feel like you’re not bullshitting me.

Hades, I have absolutely no freaking clue what you’re talking about. Maybe there was something wrong with your disc? I’ve played FFT at least five times all the way through and have never seen the behavior you describe.

You of all people saying this to someone else is the epitome of irony.

So you’ve taken the trouble to get all classes and respective skills available even before Velius, in multiple playthroughs, yet always stopped right at that point, and you’ve done this multiple times, always still feeling this cheating even though getting those classes that early would make you so overpowered you wouldn’t even need strategy. That’s a remarkable and awfully specific amount of tedious work for a game you hated so much.

Anyhow, I’m with Cid. No freaking clue of what the hell you are talking about. And Cid, c’mon, you should know better about the effects of a scratched disk, completely reworked never-before-seen game mechanics are not among them.

I know I’ve seen computers do weird crap. I don’t second-guess anything any more. 8p

SE… talking to you is like talking to a dog. You have almost no regard for anything anyone ever says, and only ever hear everything you wish you could be hearing because that would make a situation more amusing or favourable for you. No matter what I say, you pretty much just re-invent your own entire sarcastic version of it like a stand-up comedian because… actually, I have no idea why.

But it’s only fitting that you’d think your inability to recognize when opinions are supported and when they’re not somehow qualifies my statement as ironic. Fitting, but pointless, since it can be as ironic as it wants and you’d still be presumptuous and wrong.

Now, can we stop arguing about the most insanely minute gripe I have with the game, since, you know, fixing CTR (or my impression of it) would only barely erode my opinion of the cluster-fuck of shit the rest of the game is?

I actually downloaded the damn thing last night to make sure I wasn’t lying to myself, and oh lordy… The script alone is legendarily awful X_x. I thought it was bad a few years ago, but when you’re actually looking for reasons to hate it… I mean, come on. If you’re really entertaining the idea of convincing me it’s a decent game, you’re gonna need to explain away much more than a jerky CTR system and a few bad percentages. Just a heads a up.

Yeah sorry dude but you really are full of poop in this case :frowning:

You really aren’t supporting your opinion you’re just saying it didn’t work and that’s it.

And CTR is half of what you apparently have a problem with in the game. That and the hit percentages which is just something people gripe about when they are flustered

edit: Though I totally agree that I am personally biased towards FFT, it is one of a few games I consider my favorite by far

You know, Hades, instead of going in a tirade about what a horrible person I am, you could have simply pointed out what exactly of what I said was not true and why.

Fine, I’ll dispense with the implied jabs. I think you confused which Chaos Demon was casting what at you when fighting Velius, got killed, didn’t have a save before the gate and ragequit, and now you’re making this insane story because you seem to equate your gaming ability to the size of your penis, the same reason you snapped at me regarding your experience “conquering challenges” when I was pointing out that you were doing something wrong in FFXII when you… were. Dude, it’s a goddamn video game. Taking this shit that seriously wasn’t cool at twelve, it’s positively disturbing in our twenties.

But Seraphim Ephyon, I’ve BEATEN FFT and I have just about the same damned problems with the game that Hades does. I don’t think this is about ragequitting. It isn’t an isolated incident: I hate FFT. I’m just not participating in this discussion as much because I know I’d get bashed as much as Hades is, because FFT has a lot of fanboys. :stuck_out_tongue:

And I repeat that I honestly can’t understand it. I’ve completed the game eight times from start to finish, watched other people play it, talked about it, and I never even heard of this before. The game has been out for over eleven years and even got a remake. You can easily find people bitching about FFTA2’s percentages, yet not a damn word about FFT.

I’m simply bewildered as how in the world it could happen, and the only logical conclusion I can possibly come up with is writing it off as human error or poor understanding of how probability works (See Cid’s comment about 95% still being 1/20 chance of failure) coupled with consistent bad luck. This stuff can happen, you could simply have several turns where random chance repeatedly fucks or benefits you. Just ask anyone who actually got out of a casino having won money.

Until I see a video replay of a CTR action not coming out when it should, I just can’t imagine what in the world this could be about. There’s a few factors that can catch you off guard with the percentages. For example, an attack’s to-hit chance is calculated against the target’s Evade, the target’s chance to execute something like Blade Grasp or Hamedo are not counted in that. Break abilities have both an innate probability of working/not working which, if sorted, are THEN also calculated against Evade. I can see how those could be easy to misread, but I’m drawing a total blank on the CTR thing.

If it were something one could find consistently annoying about the gameplay, you should be able to find a consistent reference to it somewhere. It’s a popular game. Like, say, status effects in Pokemon where the computer is well known to cheat shamelessly (Or at least it did in the older games and particularly in Stadium, dunno about the new ones). Try to see it from my perspective: I’ve played the game a whole fucking lot and never seen this. Cid hasn’t seen it. Ramza hasn’t seen it. Ask Sin and he’ll say the same. There’s a plethora of youtube videos where this never, ever happens. Giving it the benefit of the doubt just doesn’t look reasonable. I’m not telling you not to hate FFT, just that this particular argument sounds very sketchy and that human error sounds like the most reasonable explanation.

Hey I take video games seriously!

I don’t even think evade stats are taken into account for chance-to-hit. I’ve been playing through the game again, and the lying percentages seem to pop up at around the time enemies start wearing shields and mantles. Add Hamedo and Blade Grab to that, and what you get is a chance-to-hit that tells you pretty much nothing about your actual chance to hit :confused: Not to mention your chance-to-miss-and-be-killed-for-it that Hamedo enters into the equation. My rage boils down to one thing: random chance doesn’t belong in a tRPG. I don’t want to play FF:Dice. Good strategy games don’t rely on luck. Marines in Starcraft don’t do 1-9 damage with a 40% chance to miss. They do 6 damage minus the enemy’s armor, every single time, because that’s what the game tells you the marine unit will do. And because you know this, you can build tactics around it and not have to wonder if they might totally fail because the game’s randomly generated numbers didn’t pan out in your favour.

The vast majority of TRPGs I’ve played have some kind of random chance. At least FFT is upfront about it and tells you quite happily what that chance is. If something has a 75% chance of hitting - again - it means that on average, 1 out of every 4 tries, it will fail. If you have bad luck, this could mean 3 out of 4 tries - but on a different battle, it may hit 6 times straight. That’s probability, and it’s there for the same reason it’s in every RPG, to give a bit of luck and newness to the battle system.

When done badly, randomness is terrible (see: FF12 and random chests) but a little bit of it is fun.

Perhaps the reason you saw the chances go badly once shields came into play is because the probability drops significantly. I know for a fact that the shown probability is much lower with a shield - and when the probabilityof hitting is 50%, it means you have an absolutely equal chance of hitting or missing. That means that no matter what happens, each time you try, the result is fair.

As for the script, I agree with you that it’s crap, which is why I highly recommend playing the PSP remake, which has turned it into one of the most gorgeous, poetic, classic scripts of any game, ever. Also added some beautiful FMV scenes.

Evade is absolutely everything that is taken into account in the chance-to-hit shown for melee. Shields simply add to the Evade stat when attacked from the front and sides, but the modification will definitely show in the to-hit percentage, which is why you’ll see a great difference in the percentage (sometimes as much as 40%) when attacking the back, which is not aided by shields.

Blade Grasp, Hamedo, Arrow Guard and Catch are astoundingly rare reaction abilities for enemies, they usually just have Counter or some form of self-healing, if anything, and the enemy Brave tends to be low or mediocre. Monsters, Demons and pretty much almost every enemy of note don’t even have access to those skills because of class restrictions. Elmdor is the only enemy I recall with Blade Grasp, and that’s the least of your worries in that fight.

Also, there’s Concentrate. Problem completely solved. That’s usually the first skill everyone goes for right at the start.

As for your dislike of chance… well, stop playing TRPGs. This isn’t something just FFT does, every other one in the genre has the same mechanism. As do RPGs. And PnP RPGs (You want to see people getting regularily fucked by 1/20 odds?). And pretty much everything with RPG on it. The problem seems to be that you want them to be an RTS, which they are simply not.

I’m pretty sure I like almost every other RPG I’ve ever played, especially in the FF series. Because in those games, luck could affect you, but it wasn’t a total gamebreaker and wouldn’t regularly fuck up entire rounds of gameplay in a game where every round takes 3-5 minutes.

Dude, now you’re just being overdramatic. If luck chance were such an insufferable gamebreaker, you would have just equipped Concentrate, an Archer skill that costs a measly 400 JP, which you can’t exactly miss if you play more than twenty minutes, you usually have Archers unlocked by the end of the tutorial fight. Even IF the game were so overly dependant on luck, you can neutralize Evade by the second or third freaking fight. We’re not even talking about a some complex exploit here, you just need to scroll down and read the skill description, it’s not particularly easy to miss, even to a first-timer.

It takes an ability slot I don’t want to (and shouldn’t have to) give up for it.

Mrrowwww… hisss.

At least it works in FFT rather than in FFTA2 where the boost is a minimal 10% at best (for something like steal its +1%). Of course TA2 is, like much of the FF series in general, is in perpetual easy mode anyway.

I see, of course, I’m certain your all-Monk party sorely needs Equip Armor. Or Equip Gun, that one’s super-useful in chapter 1.

I quit.

Meh! I already know we’re right. Was just an attempt at enlightening him!