Hmm. Frankly, I think I’d be more interested if this wasn’t based on FF7; the aspects that aren’t taken directly from FF7 seem like they’d stand on their own much better than with “lol FF7” attached to them, since the presence of the more familiar characters degrades my interest in the less-familiar characters.
Looks impressive for a PSP game. Japan is getting a collectors edition FF7 version of the PSP for this title; I wonder if it’ll be the slim version (PSP 2000 model), and if we should expect the same (probably not).
I really wish they’d release the games in North America the same time they do in Japan. Sorta ruins the novelty of a new title when you have to spend 6 months trying to avoid spoilers, which inevitably never happens.
I’m gonna have to go with Yar on this one, and not just because of the game that never ends routine either (though it is still a major factor). Its because the events depicted in that trailer seemed awfully familiar to me, as if, I wasn’t watching a Hobbit like plothole filler so much as a FF VII before the FF VII or rather FF VII: The Previous Generation (cues Next Generation’s opening theme).
That and the fact that there is absolutely no suspense to this game since we all know how this is all gonna go down.
It looks like one more Nomura-ized, dehumanized rendition of a great game.
What makes FF7 so great is that, in spite of the ruthless, inhuman and outlandish behavior of its villains, the heroes and the commoners they speak with are thoroughly <i>human</i>. They develop relationships with one another. They have pressing, real-world concerns just like ours. What they’re fighting against are the monstrosities (Shinra, Sephiroth) that no longer have sympathy for ordinary human concerns – love relationships, humor, the struggle for food and shelter.
Since then, the FF7 franchise has <i>become</i> the very type of villain it opposed. The events of Advent Children have absolutely nothing in common with ordinary human life. There are no meaningful relationships; just displays of “coolness” in which the heroes compete. There is no sympathy for normal humans with normal concerns; this is because, in Advent Children, there <i>are</i> no normal humans. And the fighting? It apparently involves swords that turn into a spinning circle of swords and attack of their own volition. Such a “struggle” has nothing to do with the real struggles of humans.
By all appearances, Crisis Core is heading in the same direction. First there’s the conversation between Angeal and Zack on heroism. Besides being melodramatic, no one actually talks authoritatively about <i>heroism</i> like that. The exchange between Angeal’s mom and Zack is even less convincing. Angeal’s mom “plays it cool” in a way that has nothing to do with how mothers act, and is generally reserved for bad anime. And then there are all the weird plot devices, like cloning and mutation – which good fantasy and science fiction use allegorically to make points about the real world – and which bad fantasy and science fiction rely on for the cheap thrill of outlandishness. I imagine Crisis Core will be doing the latter.
In short, I have no interest in the flashy and insubstantial thriller that Crisis Core is likely to be.
Um, you do know that Nomura had just as much a hand in FF7 itself as he does in CC? To my knowledge he isn’t directing.
Perhaps you liked FF7 for its depth, but frankly, I and lots of other people liked FF7 because it was cool. It’s great that it provided depth and humanized the characters, but first and foremost, it was cool. FF6 had just as much, if not more depth to it, and never reached the popularity that FF7 did - because it wasn’t cool.
In any case, deciding that there will be no depth at all on the strength of a single trailer (and let’s not forget that trailers often showcase the “cool” parts of anything) is leaping to a giant conclusion. FF7AC started life as a CG demo. Dirge of Cerberus was a shooting game. Neither of them had the length of time needed for depth. Deciding off the bat that Crisis Core will follow suit is a bit early - especially since you haven’t played Before Crisis, and as far as you and I know the humanization could very well have been preserved there, breaking your “trend” theory.
Hmm, interesting point about FF6’s popularity versus that of FF7. (Adding to that, they brought Final Fantasy 7 into the mainstream, which means that they’re not just marketing to the fans who are more interested in depth than in “coolness”.)
I still stand by my “the ‘new’ characters/elements and the ‘familiar’ characters/elements detract from each other” statements. It … I know, yes this is only one trailer, but I’m getting vibes like it’s a fanfiction, the author of which has decided to write their own original story, but using the names and setting from an existing work to drum up an audience.
However, as it hasn’t been released yet, don’t quote me on that unless it turns out it really is like that. And anyone who’s seen the trailers for the “Bridge to Terabithia” versus the actual story knows how off-kilter marketing can get …
Now, I admit I assumed Nomura would direct CC, since he directed AC. Apparently not. However, the CC trailer relies on the same cheap, sensational thrill techniques that AC relies on. Insofar as that’s what I meant by “Nomura-ized,” I stand by what I said.
Perhaps you liked FF7 for its depth, but frankly, I and lots of other people liked FF7 because it was cool. It’s great that it provided depth and humanized the characters, but first and foremost, it was cool.
You seem to be saying, “It’s all very well that some sophisticated types like depth, but we ordinary humans prefer coolness.” That’s fine! I love characters that are simple, sincere, and cool, and not particularly deep (e.g. Cecil, Butz). But my complaint was never against a lack of depth in the CC trailer. It’s the lack of humanity that bothers me.
Frankly, I find a movie that’s utterly removed from the human experience to be neither deep <i>nor</i> cool. For example, in The Matrix III, Neo can fly around and fight like some sort of demigod. Does that mean he’s cool, and we’d be cool to emulate his mannerisms in real life? No. Anyone who acted like Neo would come off as a social retard. It’s the same with FF7AC characters. Yeah, Cloud can zoom around in midair on a bike and throw around his massive sword. But if anyone <i>real</i> actually spoke and acted like FF7AC Cloud, all abstract-melodramatically, he wouldn’t be cool. He’d be the epitome of losers.
This is why cheap anime where the hero says, “I have the sword of a million verities! With this I conquer!” kills the villain, and gets the girl is so unsatisfying: because we know, deep-down, that a <i>real</i> person who acted like this “hero” would not only <i>lose</i> a physical conflict. He would be mocked and ridiculed for his outlandish mannerisms. He’s the nerd who wears the DBZ khaki shirt; who sits alone because he doesn’t know how to talk about ordinary subjects in a laid back way; who dreams of getting superpowers some day so that he can show the world <i>how special he really is</i>. The heroes in FF7AC are similarly messed-up people, who happen to have nice bodies and superpowers. If they didn’t have nice bodies and superpowers, they’d be pathetic specimens of humanity.
This is why I lack interest in FF7AC, and expect to lack interest in CC. You point out that trailers don’t always provide an accurate taste of movies. True enough. But if the aesthetic criteria that inform the trailer design are the same as those which inform the movie as a whole – as <i>is</i> usually the case – I’m confident that CC will fail, as art, for the same reasons as AC.
Xwing1056: Actually, Cloud was all “abstract-melodramatic” at the end of the FF7 game once he learned his past. Besides, you have to think about how FF7 worked those same elements, but in a more realistic fashion…
Cloud: Mako and Jenova’s cells. In FF7AC, Cloud’s character was wrecked with utter guilt and inner demons.
Sephiroth: A human/Jenovah hybrid. In fact, he was the Naraku of FF7 and have Neo-style powers when he turned evil. He’s suppose to lack humanity.
Barrett: Cybernetics. He’s like game, but with a new purpose in his life as Shinra’s no more.
Yuffie: A Ninja. Her abilities reflect how Ninja are presented in Japanese television.
Vincent: His body altered. He’s kinda like Cloud if he allows his past to haunt him forever. His story (Dirge of Cerberus) concludes this.
Tifa: Martial Arts training. She loves Cloud and wants to help him.
Crisis Core is “Zack’s story”, tied to “Cloud’s own story”(FF7 and FF7AC), and shows glimpses of the others’.
Xwing, isn’t Cloud in FFVII a loser? I can’t exactly identify what I liked in FFVII (probably gameplay+ bits of the story) but I clearly remember being annoyed by Cloud’s personality both times I played the game.
I thought FFVI was cool; character driven cool rather than graphics driven cool. Eye candy is great (and 3D back in the day was a great achievement) but if that was it, I wouldn’t have managed to replay FFVII. It betted a lot on cutscenes and materia (not to mention the teenager hero thing) so it now feels more dated to me than FFVI.
I can understand the FFVII (PSX-nostalgia) obsession but it still seems a bit over the top to me. No more cloud/sephiroth plzkthxbi.
What’s so interesting about Cloud is that he exists at the border between “sympathetic to humans” and “villainlike in his non-humanity.” Half the time, he’s cold and self-interested, and half the time, he’s startlingly sensitive. Particularly if you make the right dialogue choices throughout the early game. The initial few conversations between Cloud and Aeris; the scene where Cloud ignores treasure chests because the three little birds are on top; the exchanges with Tifa about childhood: these are some of the most delicately handled and touching moments in video games. In these instances, Cloud is thoroughly human, and a lovable character.
The portion of the game I think you’re describing, fractal, is where Cloud goes catatonic. Abstract-melodramatic? Definitely. What makes it work is that a: it’s temporary and b: we’ve seen enough of “the real Cloud” to sympathize with his fight for psychological stability. After Cloud “returns,” he’s grounded in earthly reality. He refuses to continue deceiving himself regarding his past: “So it was my weakness, Sephiroth’s strong will and the Mako that made me who I am today.” After a long inward struggle, Cloud arrives at the point where all the great FF heroes arrived: at a profound sympathy for his fellow humans, and an awareness of why they are worth preserving. By the end of FF7, Cloud is no antisocial loser (not that he ever was entirely); he’s a deeply mature and benevolent human being, with good friends, and significant accomplishments.
Xwing1056: You have to see it that after Metor Fall, Cloud was still haunted by his past: That Zack died to protect him and Aerith was murdered because of him.
Even though who currently fight in wars or came out of them would be no different in the terms of guilt and blaming one’s self for beloved friends’ deaths.
But if anyone real actually spoke and acted like FF7AC Cloud, all abstract-melodramatically, he wouldn’t be cool. He’d be the epitome of losers.
Depends on your idea of cool. I guarantee you plenty of people saw that performance as the epitome of cool.
And let’s not forget something else - style can be as important as substance. KH and KH2 were directed by Nomura, for example, and while their themes are not necessarily anything amazingly deep, I’ve honestly yet to see any other game as stylistically interesting as those two games. Similarly with Vagrant Story; the direction was masterful, regardless of the content.
And do you really think “cheap anime” would do so well if no one identified with the characters? In fact, “cheap anime” is often the longest-running type of show. Just because you don’t appreciate those characters doesn’t mean no one can.
And in any case, yes, we’re arguing about a full-length game based on the content of a single trailer, which is always a bad idea. Wait for some reviews to soliloquize about the death of depth.
Actually, a subsantial number of people do, especially among groups commonly seen as heroic, such as soldiers (put that in all-caps if you wish), police officers, and firemen, in addition to philosophers and every fucking newsperson ever who has spewed “these are the real heroes” all over our televisions every single time 9/11 is brought up. Their statements on heroism are just as authoritative and just as full of bullshit, too, usually. So I’d say that part is pretty accurate.
I don’t feel the characters changed that much in terms of AC. Because FFVII is a game, we hear less of them,. in a way, as they’re so often i naction, and their personalities are less constant, as there are decisions upon what they say. However, the baseline personalities of many characters were very, very hollow in even FFVII itself. If they were human beings, many of them were empty and hollow ones. Barret and Tifa I could sympathize with, though were both were outlandishly tragic characters, almost comic in their scale, but Cloud was alienating and spastic in a common “psychological troubles” fallacy used to explain away poor characterization and inconsistant writing, Aeris boring and soulless in most respects, Red XIII so un/poorly explained as to be inscrutable in any beyond the most superficial level, Vincent a redclawed cliche whos raison d’etre was based primarily in the large-scale '90s demon craze. Really, the only normal, linkable human with a regular personality who would be a remotely level or believable person on a regular scale, is probably Yuffie’s childishness, which survives by virtue of pure, head-first simplicity. FFVII’s characterization is a mess from the start, by my examination, and I had the standards of a 10-year-old when I first played it. I’ve been underwhelmed in looking for writing since.
What made FFVII work was the fact, quite simply, that it was cool. Cloud is a broken, angsty, ridiculous character out of some cheap penny-dreadful who, instead of crying too much about it, takes a big sword and does what he can. Barret burried a wife and is raising a daughter, but instead of mourning the loss and living out a quiet life until he grieved himself to death, he blows up power plants so that even if his daughter grows up motherless, she won’t grow up into the Hell Shinra is making. FFVI has more human, mortal, believable characters who act in philosophically important ways and make statements of some artistic meaning. FFVII isn’t your sort of “art”, it would seem; it’s pulp. It’s Dilan Dog, Phillip Marlowe, '70s Batman, Mad Max, dark-and-brooding, horrifically overwrought, melodramatic drivel. Artistic offal.
But hot damn is it cool.
I personally didn’t care much for FFVII when it first came out, but I also don’t really dislike it, primarily because it is cool. I can get through the game’s storyline, which doesn’t so much interest me because, when it comes down to it, I like seeing a single father beating the living hell out of a robot or a small army of mercenaries than I do him sitting at home, reading to his daughter and trying to find an adequate female role model for her, as a real single father might.
Finally, on the note of abstract melodrama making one a loser, I would like to point out that emo, topping charts and selling tight jeans to people a hundredfold wider, in number, not girth, than the metrosexual-hipster-freaks (freaks meant in the most loving way, as I am included in the group) who once bought them, is all about abstract, vague melodrama. That’s a fair number of people who would think that’s cool, already.
And anyone who’s seen the trailers for the “Bridge to Terabithia” versus the actual story knows how off-kilter marketing can get …