Best way to beat a carrier rush: to attack before he’s ready. Carrier rush is an oxymoron
If you want to beat an actual carrier fleet, get some devourers, some hydras, maybe even plague if you REALLY need it. Queens are also useful since you can put parasites in to keep an eye on the carriers (know your enemy) and you can slow down carrier fleets depending on how you wanna fight. Queens are also useful since broodling autokills templar.
Fastest way to kill mutas involve scouts, corsairs and or templar. Mutas can come before a good fleet is ready, but give the scouts and corsairs some back ups with a couple cannons and maybe even a dragoon or 2, the mutas won’t last.
The trick to any game of SC is a balanced attack force :P. All anything is bad.
BGH ruined SC? Loser. Play without BGH, I did that for YEARS! Imagine that :P. Because BGH is there doesn’t mean you have to play it.
You’re insane, Sin. You’re telling him to do all of everything at once
If you actually wanna kill a carrier fleet, just mass hydras and let them come to you. Don’t overcopmlicate things. Get a few dozen hydras in a mass, and watch what happens to the interceptors.
This works for marines too, which, other than BCs or Cloaked Wraiths, are really the only way Terran can kill carriers.
If you already tried hydras and failed, try using more. Try controlling them better. Don’t focus on the bodies of Carriers, let them do what absurd amounts of rangers were intended to do: Kill oceans of little weak things fast.
And keep in mind you don’t need to kill units to win a game. If the carriers flee, let them, don’t pursue. Instead, attack their base, and if the carriers come back, kill the interceptors again.
If he’s mixing things up and using templar to back his carriers, try going all out Ultralisks. You’d be surprised how weak Carriers and temps suddenly become in the face of 6 armor 400 hp hulks that can level a base in mere seconds.
That doesn’t apply if all you wanna do is kill the fleet though.
Muta attack: Not really. If he wants to make scouts and corsairs, he can have 2 star gates with 1 making corsairs and another scouts or make a couple extra corsairs to get the cash for the templar archive and alternate. The cannons should already be there to protect his base.
As for the carriers, the queens he’ll have already because queens are a req if you’re a zerg player and you need a queen’s nest to get to the hive level to get plague Plague’s expensive, true, but notice I said if you REALLY need it. While devourers aren’t the cheapest thing around, you don’t make fleets of devourers, that’s stupid. You make a few so that you can make sure you have something to eat damage and to acidify the armor; by the time the opponent gets a decent numbers of carriers up, it isn’t hard to have a large hydra force and a few queens set up so you can afford to make a few devourers.
See, you don’t make all these things at once. Essentially, you have the shit built as you go :P.
Hell I’ve always used Scourge against everything. The only pain in the ass is the High Templar’s Psionic Storm, that and maybe a fully upgraded Battlecruiser blast (not Yamato).
I DON’T PLAY HUNTERS. However, try to get a non-BGH game together on b.net sometime spontaneously. You’ll sit there for hours before you get any players cause everyone wants to play BGH, it’s the only thing they feel safe playing. Whenever I play with just me and my friends we play randomly. Don’t assume so much and insult me over it…loser.
If you give the guy time to build 30+ carriers, you shouldnt be playing zerg.
BUT if it does come down to it, (which it sometimes does in 45-60 minute regular games) the answer is difilers + plauge and hydras. Dont even bother with zerg air units, unless you are getting 24+ scourage to clean out a few occupied carriers. By the time he has 36 carriers (3 groups) and possibly an arbitor, (which is on the whole complete OTHER side of the tech tree) you should have AT LEAST 80+ hydras pumping out more continously from 9+ hatcheries. If you need help to see the cloaked units, just plauge.
Have you read a single post anyone with any practical knowledge in SC (beyond theorycraft) has posted?
And do you ALWAYS contradict yourself? You say not to base strategies on BGH, then you go telling him to build 9 hatcheries to constantly pump out hydras, which usually can’t be done with normal funds.
You also criticise Arbiters/Carriers for being on opposite sides of the tech tree, even though they’re directly adjecent, and then go on to tell someone to build Hydras, Defilers, AND Scourge, which are on 3 different tech paths.
Your suggestion has the same problem most of the other suggestions have: It’s ALL OVER THE PLACE. You’re spewing out tactics that you expect people to adapt to on a dime. I guarantee that circumstances won’t allow you to build such an extravagant counterattack before you’re already dead.
Defilers? Plague? Dark Swarm? That’s not stuff that people have lying around. The time it takes to tech to all that is the time it takes for 36 Carriers to kill 5 expansions. Oh wait, I forgot, you can’t GET 36 carriers. The Absolute max is 33. At least do your research before giving flimsy advice that wont work.
You say not to base strategies on BGH, then you go telling him to build 9 hatcheries to constantly pump out hydras, which usually can’t be done with normal funds.
You also criticise Arbiters/Carriers for being on opposite sides of the tech tree, even though they’re directly adjecent, and then go on to tell someone to build Hydras, Defilers, AND Scourge, which are on 3 different tech paths.
Defilers? Plague? Dark Swarm? That’s not stuff that people have lying around. The time it takes to tech to all that is the time it takes for 36 Carriers to kill 5 expansions. Oh wait, I forgot, you can’t GET 36 carriers. The Absolute max is 33. At least do your research before giving flimsy advice that wont work.
It always amuses me when people like you type things.
Yes, you can get 9+ hatcheries on normal funds. People do it all the time. Watch some Blackman or Yellow replays.
Arbitors require templar tec. Carriers require air tec. Even though they are both air units, they could not be any farther apart.
Defilers/plauge/swarm should already be researched by the time the carriers come.
I dont play toss. I wont pretend to play toss. I do play zerg. I know what can be done and what cant. If you are playing zerg, constant scouting is a must. You should not be surprised with carriers knocking at your door. Plan ahead, Hades, plan ahead.
Yes, you can get 9+ hatcheries on normal funds. People do it all the time. Watch some Blackman or Yellow replays.
No, sorry; 6+ hatcheries is a waste of resources. I don’t know what you mean by “normal” funds, but on 1-3 expansions one should definetly not get 9+ hatcheries.
Arbitors require templar tec. Carriers require air tec. Even though they are both air units, they could not be any farther apart.
This is true.
Defilers/plauge/swarm should already be researched by the time the carriers come.
Well, then you certainly wouldn’t have both Hydralisks AND Scourge. Devourers take air tech and Hydralisks take some major ground-range tech to be great against Carriers. You’d end up with mediocrity for at least one of those categories.
I dont play toss. I wont pretend to play toss. I do play zerg. I know what can be done and what cant. If you are playing zerg, constant scouting is a must. You should not be surprised with carriers knocking at your door. Plan ahead, Hades, plan ahead.
He was not the one having trouble with Carrier attacks. However, scouting goes for all races, so this is sort of a moot point. If you are simply going straight carriers, nevermind what the other person is building, then you’ve probably lost anyhow. (Assuming that the two people are on equal skill levels)
It always amuses me when stupid fucks like you PRETEND not to be completely smacked down in an argument. You seriously don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
No, people should not have Defilers/plague/swarm researched by the time Carriers come, in fact, since that’s such a shitty way of dealing with Carriers, they shouldn’t have it at all regardless of what they’re expecting.
9+ Hatcheries pumping out units is absurd. If you have 9 hatcheries for expansions, thats fine, but if you build 9 in your unit-pumping cluster you’ll be very broke, very fast, and if you’re not then you’ve already won the game dozens of minutes ago and they’re in no position to get carriers either.
And yes, Arbiters could be further apart. They could’ve required you to create them at a Gateway using 2 parent units merged together like they did with the Archon. As it is right now, all they require is 2 extra buildings, which takes about 3 minutes and 400 minerals. It’ll take you almost as long to build the Abriter itself as it will to tech to it.
I dont play toss. I wont pretend to play toss. I do play zerg. I know what can be done and what cant. If you are playing zerg, constant scouting is a must. You should not be surprised with carriers knocking at your door. Plan ahead, Hades, plan ahead.
If you play Zerg, you SHOULD be surprised to find carriers knocking at your door, because you’d have to let them live many times as long as you should for them to get Carriers. Instead of bitching about how you’re gonna counter their shit, go and make them worry about countering. Starcraft is all about attacking. Play the game, Molo. Play the game.
And I’ll restate what I said before: You know what beats what, but given the circumstances most games throw at you, the strategies you uneloquently puke out are pretty much USELESS. Do your research.
Carrier rush isnt that big of a oxymoron… my friends do 10 minute carrier rushes sometimes… (maz, if you’re reading this, remember 2 years ago, when Jeong Sang was at the 36 hour math thingy? :P) You can get 2 carriers out, attack his base, and build more while he’s busy countering it. or you can just rush in your few zealots that’s lying around…
Also… i forgot, but dont you need teh Templar Archives to get lvl 1+ upgrades? not sure…
When we play, It is usually a 3 melee on fastest (my friends bitch if I try to get them to play a real map, I’m a little partial to Blood Bath myself). 2 of us, Jessie (a former RPGCer) and myself are fairly decent, and the other, Jeremy, is getting better all the time. Jessie and I bot go random, and then try to eliminate each other quickly so as to have an easy time with jeremy. Jeremy plays toss almost exclusively. Jeremy likes to build annoying cannon walls and sit back till he can afford to send a mass of carriers and arbiters (though he is smart enough to build some early zealots/goons). This whole mess got started when Jessie started going zerg and would constantly get raped by jeremy’s carrier fleet (though usually while the fleet is out playing my ghosts are having their way with nuking the shit out of his base).
And for the record, we usually wind up with 20+ of whatever production facility we are most making use of.
Know any decent ways to crack a zerg base with 5 layers of sunkens/lurkers in the choke, 2+ layers of spores on the sides, and a large swarm of mutas and devs in the air. While he is attacking with ultra/lings at the same time? Needless to say he has about a thousand supply worth of OLs so killing them won’t help.
Starcraft, i play as Terran, only when my bro wants to get his arse wipped. I managed beat him with 4 Dozen Hydra’s and a Dozen ‘Bats’ when he was protoss. He just had lots of the short range ground troops.
Big Nutter
I haven’t played for a few years, though.
And for the record, we usually wind up with 20+ of whatever production facility we are most making use of.
Well I say bah If any of you end up with that much, then not enough attacking is going on.
Know any decent ways to crack a zerg base with 5 layers of sunkens/lurkers in the choke, 2+ layers of spores on the sides, and a large swarm of mutas and devs in the air. While he is attacking with ultra/lings at the same time? Needless to say he has about a thousand supply worth of OLs so killing them won’t help.
Yeah, the best way is to not let them build up to that. You don’t wait for six hours and THEN attack. The best way to counter that would probably be Reavers and Dragoons with some major Scout and Corsair support. Advance them slowly and have maybe an Arbiter or two along for stasis.
That time was zvz. the other guy was being a cannon bitch so we took turns shredding him b4 we settled in on killing each other. At one point I was spitting out max lings every time I wanted to build them. He only took me when I went to finish the last remnants of the other guy, who refused to surrender. I held the bottom of the map, he held the top, the center was a pool of blood.
When he said Fastest he meant FMP, Fastest Map Possible. 20 Production Buildings is actually pretty few compared to what I’ve seen some people do on that map.
pretty much. the standard “7th probe builds pylon” is usually way to slow on this map. I often find myself using probe 6 or even 5 to make my first pylon, just on sheer resource accumulation speed. Most of the time all players have 60k+ of both resources when the game finally ends. You can truly say that you’ll just send 10k worth of troops somewhere and not really care. I’ve played a terran game where I had 10 nuke silos going and didn’t even scratch my cashflow.
