http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8066743.stm
for organized fraud. finally.
I think this is hypocritical. Calling 1 religion fraudulent but not others is a joke. This is persecution at its best. No one sought to ban the Catholic church because it bilked people of their money for hundreds of years while abusing their children.
There’s a difference between being fraudulent and being retarded, Sin. The Catholic Church believes it’s a legitimate worldview (and is free, I don’t know what this bilking is you’re talking about), whereas Scientology was knowingly built from the ground up to be bullshit and make money off it.
What I’m wondering is… why now? It isn’t news that Scientology was invented as a money making scheme. This should’ve happened years ago.
So your argument is that its ok for the catholic church to do it because it has seniority?
the difference is that other religions don’t require you to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get help.
I mentioned seniority somewhere now?
The Catholic Church isn’t fraudulent because:
- It has real ethical values that apply to the real world, regardless of how fake its mythology might be
- It’s free
- It wasn’t invented in 1952 by one man whose goal was very explicitly and shamelessly to scam really stupid people out of their money
You can hate religion all you want. But hate doesn’t make things fraud.
The Catholic Church has done at least as much good as it has harm…
*Quite a few clergypeople were almost militantly opposed to the war in Vietnam
*They provided medical care to the survivors disfigured by the Japanese in WW2
*They took care of wounded Japanese soldiers who were rejected by their comrades for being weak or (again) disfigured.
*They overthrew the Aztecs. Or was it the Incas? I forget. Anyways, as greedy and murderous as the Spanish and Catholics were in the new world, they were nothing compared to the Aztecs.
I can go on.
Anyways… Religion isn’t inherently good or bad; it’s the people who use it to gain authority and influence that make it bad.
You could make the argument that statistics show Catholic priests are more likely to be perverts or bullies, but I think that it’s the unchallengeable power religion provides that attracts such a disproportionate number of assholes.
You can’t say that Catholicism, or any other religion is the same as a belief system that is based on charging a lot of money to people for ‘cures’.
You can be a Catholic, Buddhist, or Wiccan for free. Catholicism, specifically, was built over time. Christianity began thousands of years ago and was built to be a way of life and an example of how to be, not to charge people money and try to convince them there is something wrong with them they need to fix.
Scientology rejects accepted medical science, charges extravagant fees for stupid shit, and the article says that they hounded this woman for money.
That’s not a religion, its a fucking scam.
A religion is meant to be an example of how to live your life the best way you can, whether it advocates prayer, meditation, or what have you. A real religion doesn’t want you to give away your paycheck.
Scientology fits better into the American idea of a cult (although any belief system not recognized by the government is technically a cult). You join, they take you for all that you are worth, and take over your life. That is not what religion is about.
Sure the Church doesn’t sell cures. They’ve just physically and sexually abused people for hundreds of years. That’s not dangerous at all. I see nothing wrong at all with that.
And Scientology’s leaders don’t do the same thing?
Banning 1 but not the other doesn’t click. Either ban them both or neither.
Exactly. But banning them won’t stop them. If anything, it’ll make their faithful more zealous. Better to hold them both publicly accountable for their crimes.
The church doesn’t abuse people. Just because a few people fuck up doesn’t mean that you blame them all.
Should we distrust all hot blonde teachers because there was one that fucked a thirteen year old boy?
The Catholic church has done a lot of good. St. Vincent dePaul comes to mind. They have provided food and clothes for the poor for years and years. The church has always helped take care of the ill and the poor. It also provides cofort and a sense of meaning for many people.
What has the Scientologist church done? They just rip people off, a real religion does not do that.
The catholic church hasn’t fucked every boy up the ass and neither has the church of scientology fucked every one of its members. Also, if you want to know how systemic the problems are with the Church, look up the recent report about what happened in Ireland for decades.
Religions tell lies for people to believe. The end.
I can’t believe we’re having this argument. We’re comparing how horrible groups of liars are and trying to evaluate why its worse for one to lie more than it is for another one to lie.
Sure the Church doesn’t sell cures. They’ve just physically and sexually abused people for hundreds of years. That’s not dangerous at all. I see nothing wrong at all with that.
How is this fraud? Also, correlation doesn’t imply causation. There are racists, murderers, and sexual predators everywhere. Probably moreso outside the Catholic church. That a few are found within it doesn’t say anything about the integrity of it.
You’re being uncharacteristically illogical today.
Edit: The Church of Scientology HAS fucked every one of its members. By making them pay thousands of dollars for absolutely NOTHING of value.
Edit2: Religion doesn’t tell lies. Being wrong and lying are not the same thing. Scientology lies because it knows it’s wrong and chooses to exploit it.
Yeah, but it’s their money to spend, and they feel like they are getting some kind of spiritual gratification out of it. What right does a government have to put a stop to that?
People waste money on pyramid schemes and lottery tickets looking for some kind of financial salvation even though the odds of actually gaining anything back are next to nothing. Should those be banned as well?
It’s not the money that bothers me so much as the abuse they dish out.
To that? None. It’s the fact that everyone who’s selling Scientology knows it’s a load of shit and that they’re malevolent scammers that’s pushing my bullshit tolerance threshold. Governments have a responsibility to protect people from setting themselves up for the disappointment that comes when you realize your “religion” was written by an old drunk guy 50 years ago with crayolas for the sole purpose of taking advantage of your stupidity and gullibility.
I wholly support this endeavor. You guys are missing the bigger picture. Scientology ruined Katie Holmes for us. Katie Fucking Holmes. These mother fuckers need to be made to pay for that.
The point that Sin is making (and being an Irishman, I guess I’d know more about it than most of the rpgc forumgoers) is that the abuse was systemic. It was not just ‘One or two bad eggs giving everyone a bad name’ it was the entire organisation of the catholic church. They were either explicitly or implicitly responsible for the abuses that took place, either by doling them out (and it is clear that this was not a small proportion, either) or by sitting by and doing nothing.
In fact, it’s worse than that they did nothing. It’s that they actively supported the priests involved in this, not just now, but then as well. And they used their influence on all levels of society to ensure that nobody could speak out for years, and it was a conscious decision to do so.
So no, the Catholic Church is equally culpable for the wrongs of its organisation as the Church of Scientology is for the wrongdoings of its.
In fact, the sheer systemic nature of it has caused my father to become fully anti-catholic, which was an odd shock to me. Similarly, my mother and sister who would be both be quite devout are so sickened they find it difficult to even talk about it. This is because the abuses they conducted were evil.
And while I don’t particularly want to ban religions, I would have no problem treating them as any other business.