I never played Megaman games for the story - the nerd in me would be bothered by a lack of continuity, but since that part’s so microscopic (ha) it’s just all about the jumping and shooting.
[SPOILER]Judging from the info in Ciel’s computer:
The Maverick Wars ended with the Dark Elf’s creation, which triggered the Elf/Omega war. The plothole you mentioned has been there since the beginning of the first game: Something happened to Zero between the final scene in X6 and the beginning of Z1, as it’s made clear by the whole body-swapping business. What exactly? Ask Weil… oh, wait, they killed him off. No answer for you.
It was X who ended the Maverick Wars with help from the Dark Elf, and then sacrificed himself to seal the elf and end the second war. It never says when exactly Neo Arcadia was built, maybe the fortress had begun it’s construction during the period between the Maverick and Elf Wars and was already in place when the Elf was sealed. After all, Elpizo found out about the Elf by looking into Arcadian records, someone evidently knew.[/SPOILER]
The game states that X didn’t want to return to life, not that he committed suicide. He’s not the kind of guy who would say “I’m tired” and blow his head off. The way I see it, the Elf’s sealing was a convenient way for him to do his job and die at the same time. And in any case, X did absolutely positively seal the Elf, so I can’t see any other explanation.
I’ll be honest, I couldn’t care less if the entire X crew got blown the fuck up during the Elf Wars. Alia, Douglas and Signas had as much development as a random Mettool, X was one of the most boring characters I’ve ever seen, Axl was barely in my radar and Sigma needed to JUST DIE ALREADY.
I can’t say the same for the Zero crew: I liked these guys. The character development wasn’t anything worthy of a medal but by the previous saga’s standards, it was excellent. Same case with the story. They showed me that they could write a passably good script, so I have every reason to demand at least that from them. Everything I liked about the gameplay is still there, but even if the plot or characters aren’t the main point, if they can add these elements, then I expect them to do it.
In short, even if the story has always sucked, it was getting good now, so I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to expect them to keep it up.
Lemme put it to you this way:
[SPOILER]The Maverick Wars ended with the Dark Elf’s creation.
Plothole: Zero was said to have gone to sleep at the end of the X series, which would be the end of the Sigma wars, right? I won’t even bother with this one, cos I don’t think of X6-X8 as canon.
The X did not dissapear the way you stated…Either during the Maverick or the Elf wars, X went MIA, and Copy X came in and finished it. Neo Arcadia was either constructed afterwards, or was finished shortly after the end of that war. Either way, X didn’t leave with sealing a baby Elf in mind, according to the first game. So that still leaves me with the question of just what the hell he was doing there? Just cos ‘someone’ evidently knew doesn’t make it not a plothole; that makes it even BIGGER of a plothole since that’s NOT what X originally said he left to do. I honestly don’t remember if he ever said that’s what he left to go do; that’s just where he eventually was said to be.[/SPOILER]
X was never said to have left to seal the Elf. He left because he became desensitized to fighting in general. Go watch the ending of MMZero1. In any case, I wasn’t saying he was suicidal. I was just saying that the reason you’re saying he left the front is not the reason that X claimed to have left the front.
[SPOILER]Yeah, Zero went to sleep at the end of X, whenever that was. Then something happened to him. That’s the big unknown story blank I’m pissed off about.
X only said that the fighting tired him and that he’d rather leave things to Zero from that point onwards, that’s all. Back in the first game, we all interpreted it as “I gave up, your turn”, but it was never explicitly stated how he disappeared.
Ciel’s computer explicitly says that X finished the Maverick Wars with the Elf and then sealed it. That’s a plot fact.
I see no conflict between these two points. The fact that X didn’t want to keep on living doesn’t crash with him using himself to seal the Elf. When I say “he sealed the elf” I’m not talking about a traditional dramatic sacrifice in the name of peace, but a situation as simple as:
Don’t Wanna Live Anymore + Big Powerful Thing Needing Sturdy Imprisonment = Good Chance to Disappear Once and for All.
The only way X loosing himself affects all this is that instead of a sacrifice, it was a get out ticket.
Of course it looks like they came up with that on the go, and they probably did, but anyone unwilling to accept written-on-the-go stories should stop watching most TV series, reading many novels, reading almost all manga, watching anime, playing games, etc. If there is no conflict of facts, there is no plothole.[/SPOILER]
He doesn’t say that he left it to Zero. He tells Zero to take care of things for him, but if he wanted to leave things to Zero, he’da made sure Zero was AWAKE first. The whole reason that Copy X was made was to finish up the wars. Copy X practically SCREAMS that shit when you fight him.
[SPOILER]Okay. Then, it’s a plothole. That’s not why X said he left.
"Since you dissapeared, I’ve been fighting this war alone against an uncountable number of Mavericks for nearly one-hundred years…Battle after battle…So painful and sad…
But, the hardest part was when I discovered that I no longer cared about fighting enemies…
I’ll leave this world to you. Please allow to rest in peace for a while…
…I’m sorry, Zero."
THAT was X’s original reason for leaving the front, and THAT is why Copy X was made in the first place.[/SPOILER]
Okay, but I never said that these two plot points conflicted. What I’m saying is that him sealing the elf conflicts with the reason he said he left the front, and finding him all of a sudden in Neo Arcadia sealing the elf when he was supposed to be completely MIA is retarded. That’s my gripe.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and Capcom will “Power Up” the other original Mega Man titles for PSP, or give us Mega Man X remakes in the vein of Maverick Hunter. If you haven’t played either of these PSP remakes, they’re freaking awesome. I just bought the system and both games Friday, and they’re damn near worth buying the system for.
I didn’t express myself correctly, I’m not saying X had some grand scheme to ensure world peace which included Zero, he did basically drop the ball on everyone with no backup plan after all (Copy X was Ciel’s doing). Copy X BELIEVES he is the one “chosen” to maintain world order simply because he has severe identity issues. He is extremely reluctant to even admit that he’s not X.
Yes, he was tired, we already established that. That’s the reason he wanted to go away, not the process by which that was acomplished. Read the following.
[SPOILER]There is NO conflict of any kind here. At the very least the two points can be unrelated, but they don’t collide. X wanted to disappear. Neither the game nor X himself ever says that he quit, ran, committed suicide or anything of the sort, only that he wanted to do so. The Elf’s sealing had the same outcome for him as firing his buster to his head: He was allowed to vanish.
You keep repeating “went MIA” as if it somehow conflicted with sealing the Elf. I think strapping himself to a machine in the deserted bowels of Neo Arcadia and entering deep slumber for years with nearly nobody knowing counts as going MIA. There is nothing that proves that nobody knew where he was, only that neither the public, the resistance nor Ciel knew where he was. Going MIA isn’t poofing into the air, it’s being in a location unknown to those who label him as such.
[/SPOILER]
[SPOILER]I’m not saying that MIA is like dissapearing, what I’m saying is that Neo Arcadia hadn’t even begun to be built when he left the front. And it’s not like he went and buried himself underground or something anyways; you find him at the top of a tower in MMZ2 if you REALLY wanna get into semantics. Someone had to fucking notice he was there. But if they did, he wouldn’t be MIA at all…except for wait! No one seems to know where he is? How the hell did he wind up at the top of a structure in Neo Arcadia? A structure made AFTER he dissapeared, that couldn’t have been built FIRST THING, right? Maybe if he went to the ‘deserted bowels’ or anywhere, I’d buy it, but you can’t go to the deserted bowels of the TOP of a tower in a huge structure that hadn’t even been built yet.
My point is, if he went to Neo Arcadia, someone better have known where the fuck he was, but until the events in MMZ2, no one had a damn clue.[/SPOILER]
[SPOILER]I’m not going to argue the semantics. He was in an extremely guarded and secluded spot, that’s the point.
I’ll give you that the location of the sealing device is problematic. Once again, the exact moment in which Arcadia was built is unknown. We know it’s after the Maverick Wars, but there could have been some buildings in place prior to the end of the Elf Wars, since it was X’s plan to build something like this all along (See X’s ending in X5). There are some possible explanations I can think of, but I doubt Capcom thought the same. This one is probably a plothole, but it’s minor in comparison to all the rest.
As I said, the public, the Resistance and Ciel didn’t know where he was. Copy X never said anything of the sort. The people who should have noticed, namely the Arcadian high-ups, never said anything about not knowing where X was. And like I said, Copy X had every reason in the world to not say anything.[/SPOILER]
[SPOILER]It’s important to argue the semantics of this, because if it were anywhere else, it wouldn’t be a huge deal. If he’s in Neo Arcadia, people have to know about it.
Neo Arcadia was not likely built in any period of time when X was still around. I can’t put my finger on it cos I don’t have my copy of MMZero1 on me, but I’m pretty sure it was stated that after the Elf wars, Neo Arcadia was established by X (Copy X) to be a permanent utopia for humans.
And, who exactly are the higher ups, anyways? X? X’s guardians? Cos X’s guardians have no idea that Copy X isn’t X…[/SPOILER]
I’m pretty sure at least Harpuia knew, and by the third game even Fefnir HAS to have figured it out. But really, I was thinking of only Copy X when I said that.
Go play the third game again; even then, Harpuia still refers to the Copy X as ‘master X’, none of them really switch allegiance until the very end of the game, and I believe that’s when they finally found out.
[SPOILER]The “Master X” is the way they refer to their creator, after all, Copy IS their master. Harpuia always seemed more aware of the situation than the others, as is shown at the beginning of Z2 when he saved Zero’s life.
Knowing the truth doesn’t mean that he and the rest would betray Copy X though. He is their creator and master after all, regardless of whether he is real or not. Even at the end of Z3 they help you because you are fighting Weil, they never take any explicit action against Copy X. “Enemy of my enemy is my friend” kind of situation.
And if you are willing to take things like these as canon information (I’m not), the three of them can be seen in the OST’s cover art with Copy X and Phantom’s ghost while Ragnarok is descending.[/SPOILER]
You have a point; although I still think mine is completely valid.
Suit yourself. I’ll admit that it’s not unlikely.
[SPOILER]Do they? They clearly knew where X’s shrine was, they seemed to know exactly where the real X was judging by Harpuia’s words/actions in Z2 he clearly knows what’s going on and Fefnir/Leviathan follow his lead, plus I honestly doubt that they would not be able to tell the difference between their maker and a copy. I think they played along because Copy X has severe identity insecurities and they needed him as ‘Master X’ to keep the world order, and to protect the real X from potential harm, as what if Copy wanted to obtain the Dark Elf’s powers or kill the real X to be the One True X? Just my personal hypothesis, anyway.
Also, regarding the matter of their position in Z3, Leviathan and Fefnir switch because Elf X comes to them and tells them to fight. They don’t like Zero and harbor no love for Weil, but being told directly by X and Phantom to honor their duty is reason enough. Harpuia switched because he’s a bit more aware than the others.[/SPOILER]
Actually, the four guardians were made by Copy X. They’d have no idea of the difference between their creator (Copy X) and the original X, because for all they know, Copy X IS X. Besides, there’s no other explanation as to why Harpuia and company remain loyal to Copy X in X3, up until the end. Had they been created by X, they definitely wouldn’t have remained loyal to a Copy after the original X was killed…had they even known about it. It’s a fact that they were created by Copy X, and I’m pretty much certain that they had no idea that Copy X was a copy, nor that the original X had been killed when he finally was.
[SPOILER]SG is right about that one, the four guardians were created using Copy X’s DNA (How the fuck a robot has DNA is beyond me) which is why he can use the combined abilities of them all. Harpuia listens to X because he recognizes him as someone who momentarily shares their goals, not because of some special connection.
As for the Guardian’s characters, it varies. Harpuia is clearly the one who sees the bigger picture, he realizes his creator is slipping into complete madness, and his focus isn’t so much in preserving Neo Arcadia as it is into ensuring peace.
Shadow, from what little you see in Z1 and his small dialogue in Z3 seems to be the opposite. It doesn’t seem like he cares for Copy X more than Harpuia, but he is more focused on his own interests. He’s probably the most Maverick-like of the four.
Fefnir is flat as board. He’s basically a brute who enjoys fighting, but doesn’t seem particularly ill-intentioned. H ejust doesn’t think too much about anything.
Leviathan… I have no idea. She seems smart, but not too concerned with anything in particular.
It’s probably like Zero said, Harpuia is the one who really calls the shots while Fefnir and Leviathan follow his lead.[/SPOILER]