Bleach ep. 65+

The Core The Anime Forum
1

Well, the Soul Society arc is FINALLY over (seriously, they took 40 episodes for a story that could easily have been done in 10) and everyone’s back in the land of the living. I’ve watched up to episode 67 so far and I’m having way more fun than I did earlier. I kept watching out of a sort of detached curiosity (the first 20 episodes hooked me), but now I’m actually interested in what happens. :sunglasses: I miss Rukia, but the chemistry between Renji and Ichigo is just as entertaining. It’s so much nicer to have three baddies than thirty and there’s already been more variety in five episodes than there was in the past forty.

So anyway… yeah, if you happened to get sick of it before now, take a gander.

And the new ending song is incredibly catchy. :sunglasses:

2

Hey, I liked the SS arch. <_<

3

I’m wondering what they were on when they made the new ending theme, but I adore it. It’s so silly and catchy. And the scary part is, as you’ll soon see, is that there’s a reason it looks like that XD

But yeah, though I liked the SS arc (because the characters were so goshdarn SILLY), I’m glad they’re out of there and back in the real world. It’s a bit like returning to what it was in the beginning.

4

Sadly, if they decide to stick to the manga (As I think they have done so far), your happiness is not going to last much. It is truly on of the worst cases of DBZism I’ve seen as of late and I really should have seen it coming when they introduced the [STRIKE]Super Saiyan[/STRIKE] Ban Kai.

I liked the SS arc and thought it was really fine besides for the end, but it goes down shit’s creek after that.

5

Man, I can’t be the only one who hated the whole Soul Society thing. The vast majority of episodes consisted of interchangable people going “HAAAAAH!” at each other and trading very stupid insults and bravado. The comedy and chemistry is what I always actually liked about Bleach, which is why I’m glad they’re back with Ishida, Inoue, and Chad rather than concentrating on Ichigo for 40 episodes. -_-

There’s one point in episode 67 that had me on the floor. Ichigo and Renji (who’s posing as Ichigo’s cousin or some such) are both getting bugged by that one loudmouthed guy in Ichigo’s class, and they both smash his face in with their feet at the same time, causing his friend to say “Hey, you can really tell they’re relatives!” The look on their faces after that was PRICELESS.

6

I get what you’re saying, I liked the early parts better myself, but Soul Society was a good serious segment in that it didn’t shift too drastically. You could see that there was some serious conflict coming, and they pulled it off passably well.

But here is the problem. Remember that other old anime started as a fighting comedy, got some good serious arcs going and then turned into insane constant battling? Yeah, that one. I can practically see the Damocles’ sword of mediocrity drawing near.

7

I liked the Soul Society arc. I didn’t like how it ended, but it still had some nice story.

However, the current manga arc is just boring and it’s turning into the next dbz -_-

8

Honestly Cid, I think you’re a tad unfair to Bleach. :slight_smile: Bleach is a Shonen fighting series, it has been from the start. And complaining that a Shonen fighting series has too much fighting is like complaining a Romance is too sappy.

Bleach is not DBZ, it’s not even close. Yeah, there’s fighting, yeah, it’s measured in ‘levels’ (Shi Kai, Ban Kai, WhateverIsNext Kai), the hero goes by the ‘fights, loses, trains, gets stronger, fights, wins, rests, repeat’ pattern that every other Shonen fighting series in existance uses. DBZ did something like this too, but so did a lot of other series.

It took over 20 episodes to fight Freeza in DBZ, the standard fight in Bleach lasts 2, maybe 2 and a half episodes, tops.

And, you gotta admit, The whole thing with Aizen was pretty clever. If you weren’t spoiled about it beforehand it’s unlikely you saw that coming. Does DBZ have anything like that?

If fighting series aren’t for you, that’s fine. But Bleach will be getting back on track to the manga’s storyline once this filler arc is over. To be honest, I’m a little tired of people smugly defaulting to relating Bleach to DBZ in order to criticize it. DBZ wasn’t the be-all-end-all of fighting anime, it’s just the most popular over here, which is a damn shame, because the anime was an over-extended pile of nasty.

I agree that the character interaction in Bleach is awesome. The SS arc could have been more enjoyable if the party wasn’t split up, and much of that interaction was subsequently lost. Though I disagree that the SS arc was ‘unnecessary’, introducing all the Shinigami Captains and Vice Captains was important, and showing the backstories of all of them, particularly Renji, Rukia, Hinamori, and Kira, was also important. Since it all ties to who appears to be the ultimate baddie, at the moment. The manga ties things together better, as there were subtle details from the early chapters that were left out of the anime which hint at the larger plot. Hell, the very first volume of Bleach has an image of Shinji, a character only introduced after the SS arc. Kubo Tite had things planned out THAT far in advance, I’d give him credit for THAT, at least.

Anyhoo, criticize Bleach, fine. But at least stop with the ‘DBZ, lol’ comments, kay? :smiley:

9

I don’t think Kubo Tite planned the plot that far.

MANGA SPOILERS

In ep 1, why didn’t Rukia simply release her Zanpakutou, and kill that Hollow that attacked Ichigo’s home? Its freezing ability would have easily made quick work of it. Surely this had to be a better idea then simply giving some of her powers to some stranger she just met.

10

You say it like it’s a good thing. I would personally love some of this filler in the manga, if only to break from the monotony.

Right now we’ve got the Shinigami barely winning against the lower-level Arrankar, two more levels until the big ones (Who will obviously be drastically superior than the middle class as usual), Ichigo’s father being a Shinigami out of the blue, Rukia being strong equally out of the blue, Madarame (Bald guy) being able to use Ban Kai meaning that soon enough everyone and their mother will be able to do it (So much for Byakuya’s “Those few who achieve Ban Kai always have a drastic role in the history of Soul Society”), the Vizaado or whatever the heck you name them, that little terminally-depressed girl having some secret berserker power and the list goes on. It’s just a whole bunch of stuff being thrown at us way too fast.

And simply writing Bleach off as a stereotypical shonen anime isn’t right. If the thing that stands out is the character interaction, then the genre is no excuse to bury it under typical yelling and hotblood. The SS arc was correctly managed except for the end (Honestly, instead of “surprising” it felt more like a Deus Ex Machina) but now it looks like we’re never getting back to what originally captivated people.

Nightblade: EXACTLY. The Hollow/Ichigo thing might have been planned, but Kubo is definitely making up a lot of shit on the go. Ichigo’s father falls under this category.

11

I generally don’t categorize the things I watch. There are shows I enjoy for various reasons and those I don’t; I have every right to be miffed when a show I enjoyed suddenly leached itself from all enjoyment. And I wouldn’t care if there was a lot of fighting if there was actually a lot of FIGHTING. What there was, was a lot of silly taunts and fairly boring visual effects.

To be entirely honest, I’ve never sat through an entire episode of DBZ, so it’s not like I’d ever make that kind of comparison myself. 8p

12

Ok then, let’s see. Ichigo’s father, it did seem like it was out of the blue. But hwo do we KNOW he just made it up? You’re assuming too much. I won’t claim to say that Kubo is some sort of literary genius who planned everything in minute detail, but I also wouldn’t claim that he’s just making shit up just because WE didn’t see it coming, when no one but Kubo really knows that. I believe there were some subtle hints about Isshin earlier on. During the Grandfisher battle, while Kon is in Ichigo’s body, Isshin never directly calls him by name, possibly because he knew it was Kon. Despite supposedly not having any spiritual sense, he still apparently knew Ichigo was going to Soul Society, and saw him off.

Ikkaku’s Bankai. It did seem a bit sudden, but the following flashback explained that. He purposly hides the fact that he has Bankai so he can continue serving under Kenpachi. The reason he didn’t just use Bankai when fighting Ichigo is because he thinks it’s cheap. Ichigo was just on Shikai, so Ikkaku kept himself on Shikai, and Ichigo bested him there. I can’t imagine ‘everyone’ will suddenly start to get Bankai now, as it would be ultimately pointless because even just achieving Bankai won’t do it, since it still takes years of training to master it. ie: Renji.

Rukia’s Soulslayer. I’ll concede that. But, to be fair, if Rukia didn’t transfer her Shinigami abilities to Ichigo at the start we wouldn’t have a series, now would we? I think the reason she didn’t have time to release her Soul Slayer was because she blindly tried to save Ichigo’s life, probably due to his resemblance to Kaien. She didn’t do it at first, either, because the Hollow had Ichigo’s sister. Just because she made a bad decision doesn’t mean she’s weak.

The Arrancar and the Vizards. After the Grandfisher battle, in the manga, we see some of the Arrancar remove Grandfisher’s mask. They left this out in the anime, unfortuantely. Kubo didn’t really refer back to this until after the SS arc ended, but that tells me he had, at least, quite a bit planned out beforehand. I don’t doubt that some things were changed, or extended, as the popularity of the series grew, but such a thing happens to almost every series. The focus of this series now seems to be the merging of Hollow and Shinigami powers. That doesn’t mean that the other characters all introduced up to this point will be left out. I’m content to wait and see, though I can see where some people would be cautious.

Now, about the filler. I doubt we’ll see the filler matrerial in the manga, since I really can’t think of any series in the past where that’s happened. I do enjoy the character interactions in the filler, a more lighthearted story IS what Bleach needed. But the filler is not without problems of its own, nor one or two plot holes… (note I’ve seen up to episode 70) Urahara seems to be the ultimate Deus Ex Machina in the Bleach series. Despite trying, in earnest, to discover the identity of the three who kidnapped Orihime and Chad, it was him who was behind them in order to test Ichigo and everyone. But, if that was the case, why did he he even go as far as to analyase the voice patterns of his own creations in front of Youruichi when SHE knew about it also? Also, having Claude take the form of Orihime’s brother to trick her may have been effective, but it was oddly cruel, even for Urahara, and she didn’t even think twice about it after the fact. Rukia’s returning at the end of 69 sort of borks up Manga continuity, and I think they only reason they threw her in there was because she’s popular. Then there’s the whole Baunt/Bound thing (zomg vampires!) who are the real enemies of the Filler arc, but we don’t know enough about them yet. Also, I think Ishida is acting wildly out of character in episode 70, throwing himself in danger when he knows he’s powerless, and when it was revealed to everyone else (also borking manga continuity a bit). That being said, Lilin becomes MUCH less annoying after it’s revealed she’s not really evil, and her soul gets stuffed into that bird doll. (And she’s not giggling horribly every scene)

Anyway. Maybe I shouldn’t just lump Bleach in with every other Shonen series, but the fact remains that’s what it IS. They progress in certain ways, and Bleach is just following the pattern. It IS returning to the manga storyline after the filler arc (it’s been confirmed), so sorry if you really dislike it. I’m not trying to make it sound like ‘tough cookies’ but… tough cookies? :smiley:

13

I’m not sure which of those spoilers are for the manga (which I don’t read) or for episodes I haven’t seen yet, so I haven’t read any of it. ^^; Sorry.

14

Yes, all the spoilers are for the manga, with the exception of the last one which is for episodes 68-70.

To summarize my points, the anime has left out a number of details left in the manga, details which help make sense of things that SEEM out of the blue in the anime.

15

I never really cared that things seemed “out of the blue” (I don’t think I ever actually had that reaction to anything, actually). I just didn’t like the content of the show during the SS arc.

16

For all he knew, Ichigo was an unknown invader that threatened his world and his own life. Anyone willing to accept what you are saying would also have to accept that Ikkaku is an imbecile who would allow an enemy to beat him out of sport. Even Kenpachi fought with everything he had against Ichigo, and he was a monster with or without Zanpakutou.

Renji got his Ban Kai while training with Ichigo in Yoruichi’s cave, and he’s managing it pretty well already.

But that doesn’t stop her from giving Ichigo her crash course on putting priorities and Shinigami’s duty above personal feelings? C’mon, her moves in that battle where pathetic compared to other Shinigami. And even then, she still had plenty of opportunities to release the sword.

As I said it before, I admit THAT was planned beforehand. But while it doesn’t mean the other characters WILL be left out, it makes it very probable. Since the current Ban Kai users can barely win against the lower level Arrancar, Ichigo is the only one with a logical way of becoming stronger. Unless Urahara plus a hollow into everyone else, we’ll be seeing a lot of cheerleader stock characters.

By the way, this also pisses me off because I really liked Tatsuki’s character, and now it’s a bit too late for her to get in on the action.

And another thing about Rukia: Didn’t the manga say at some point that those put into the fake body Urahara made to contain his hollow-merging gizmo would “never again” recover their powers, completing the scene with shocked pained facial expressions? Yet then they changed it to “Oh, unless they leave the body”.

17

Yay, time to debate anime. Hahaha I’m such a geek. Alright then (forgive me if this seem short, but I had a post written out but it was eaten by a Windows glitch, since I’m posting this from the computers at school.)

Well Ikkaku IS from the 11th division, so I dunno if he could be considered all that bright. :smiley: At any rate, the main reason Ikkaku didn’t use his Bankai, aside from his distaste of it, is because Ichigo just ended the battle too fast. Up until Ichigo KOed him it was looking like Ikkaku would win, but Ichigo comes out of nowhere and cuts him down. Till then, Ikkaku probably thought he didn’t need to resort to using Bankai, and when Ichigo finally won, it was too late. And besides which, if Ikkaku just used Bankai from the start, he would have revealed it to everyone who may have witnessed the fight. Then he would have been pressured to leave the 11th division, not to mention that Kenpachi would be after him daily to fight, and I’m sure he doesn’t want THAT.

Renji was already pretty far along in his Bankai training, as he could manifest Zabimaru at will by that point. But, even so, he couldn’t beat Byakuya. And Ichigo only managed it thanks to his inner Hollow. (not to mention the fact he’s the hero of a Shonen series :D)

To be fair, Rukia was distracted by several things at that point. A) SHe was confused by Ichigo’s spiritual pressure blinding her senses, and she never sensed the Hollow until it was right outside. B) Ichigo broke her Hadou by the force of his will alone, which really surprised her. And C) Ichigo ran out to confront the Hollow before she could react, leaving her with few options. She COULD have just risked his life to attack the Hollow, but he reminded her too much of Kaien, so her reaction there was more impulsive and, well, stupid. As for her crash course, well, whoever argued that Rukia wasn’t self-righteous? :smiley:

Well, we don’t know the true nature of the internal Hollow yet. Perhaps EVERYONE has one? But Shinigami repress theirs. You’re assuming too much. Perhaps more of the Shinigami will become Vaizards, and who says some of the Arrancar won’t defect? Edorado seemed somewhat noble (if dead by now).

As for Tatsuki, I wouldn’t count her out yet. Afterall when Tousen came to fetch Grimmjow, we saw Tatsuki off to the side watching Ichigo’s fight. I imagine her powers will develop like Orihime and Chad’s. As for Keigo, well, I’m not sure WHAT Kubo is planning for him, but he’ll probably just be comic relief. If I see Keigo defeat an Arrancar, THEN I’ll stop reading. :smiley:

It was revealed that Urahara’s fake body GRADUALLY drained a Shinigami’s powers. Rukia didn’t spend long enough in it before Byakuya and Renji came to fetch her. She was taken out of it in time, and thus her powers slowly began to regenerate.

Anyway, I think that’s it. Rebuttal? :smiley:

18

Okay, yes, the 11th division aren’t the brightest lights in the Christmas tree, but… look, I can’t see anything in that fight that suggested Ikkaku wasn’t doing his best. I just can’t believe this was planned beforehand.

So? Even if he couldn’t control it then, he’s now working it pretty well after… how long has it been? A month?

The fact remains that she made a whole lot of mistakes in that fight that would make her the laughing stock of the other seated Shinigami, who she supposedly matches in strengths.

I thought that Ichigo got his hollow when he almost became one during Urahara’s training, since the Vizards and Arrancar are only possible thanks to that thing he invented.

I’ll give you that, but Chad is already falling behind the rest and I don’t have much faith in his upcoming second training keeping him relevant for long, since his powers are… we still don’t know what the hell his powers are. Orihime is hanging in there as the mandatory White Mage chick, but with the enemies being stronger every time, Tatsuki’s role will probably be very small.

Are you kidding? Just picture the scene, it would be awesome :smiley:

The first time the body is brought up, the words were “will never recover their powers”. The gradually was added after Rukia came back.

19

How come Ichigo and the others carry the new mod souls around in stuffed animals even in battle? It makes more sense to me for them to switch to their more capable faux bodies to fight rather than just acting as a tracker.

20

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe Ikkaku’s Bankai was preplanned, maybe not. But to me, the bottom line is, it can fit. It doesn’t contradict anything up to that point, since the reason he never used the Bankai before was due to his distaste of it, and not having the time to use it.

It’s working better, sure, but he still has a long way to go, likely. Look at Byakuya’s Bankai, it has several forms and abilities. Right now, Renji still has plain ol’, big bone whip.

Yes. Yes she did. That was my point, she just made bad decisions, but that didn’t necessarily make her weak, which is what I was arguing against. Ichigo resembles Kaien, and as we’ve seen, her judgement regarding him, and memories of him, ain’t the most rational.

That’s one theory, but it’s not yet known just HOW Ichigo got his Hollow. Remember, back when Ichigo was fighting Renji well before his training with Urahara, he suddenly got a burst of sheer strength. It was much more than a second wind. Some speculate that was the first sign of his inner Hollow. But anyway, where the manga is now, perhaps we’re finally about to get some real answers on the nature of Ichigo’s inner Hollow, once Shinji gets to doing some explanation, anyway. So perhaps we’ll get an answer to that.

Well, Chad doesn’t fully understand his power. Hell, neither do Urahara or Youruichi, but they still did the best they could to train him. He’s not a Shinigami, so they can’t measure his skills or power by those terms. It will probably be ultiamtely up to Chad to figure out his own power. That doesn’t mean, though, that he will be sitting on the sidelines. Since his power is not that of a Shinigami, it’s not LIMITED like a Shinigami’s, so who knows just how it can evolve? I believe that Kubo once said in an interview that both Chad and Orihime will be very important to Bleach’s story, so I wouldn’t count him out just yet. As for Tatsuki, well, like I said, we just don’t KNOW. Maybe she’ll get a burst of development? We’ll have to wait and see. Given the exposition she’s gotten in the past, I think she still has a chance to become important.

Yes, well, fine, I suppose I could put up with seeing that. As long as Kon had a part in it, anyway. :smiley:

That, well, that depends on the translation. What fansubs do you typically watch? If it was DB or Hell Fansubs then they typically tend to get various things wrong, for the sake of getting the subs out faster. I go by Lunar for the anime, since their work seems much more professional. They’re finally starting to catch up too, now that their main translator is back.

Anyways, to Lex: I dunno what the deal is with those Mod-Souls yet, since this is all original anime-only material. There’s no manga-storyline for this arc, so I honestly can’t say.