I made a point to say “most pro-lifers,” so I could give Rigmarole a flavor of America without descending into the details and exceptions. Obviously, there are many deep, nuanced pro-life thinkers, some religious, some not.
No offense was intended, and aside from the exceptions I listed, I lean toward being pro-life as well.
Wilfredo: I have transplanted a fetus into a womb via my sperm. Anyway.
How would you all like it if an alien probe came to earth and filled the air with spores that a human breaths in and a creature begins to gestate inside your body. After a certain amount of time the creature will spring from your anus. When it becomes an adult it will be a giant snake like creature that has the same intelligence as any human. How many of you would, if having the option, take a pill to stop that snake from springing out of your anus? I suspect all of you would. I know I would. Now does that horrible snake not deserve to live? Everything about prolife is so hypocritical. Nobody wants to have a giant cobra coming out of your body. Some women don’t want HUMAN snakes (babies) coming out of their bodies. So why do you have the right to deny the serpents life, but human life is so precious? I wish I had more time to work on this analogy but I have to go. So I hope this worked.
X-Wing: I suspect so, but just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
Sin: There are processes and technologies used today that people long ago swore were impossible based on scientific facts as they knew back then, but later research proved them wrong. So never say “never”. Though admittedly, what I mentioned, if possible, is likely still distant in the future.
I’m a lot more knowledgeable about what is possible than you. The majority of “modern” medicine is surprisingly low tech.
Transplanting a baby would require that a placenta be transferred from 1 mother to the next, which is not possible because of the adhesions required to hold the placenta in place, the amount of blood flow involved and the manner by which the blood is fed to the baby through the placenta. Without adequate blood flow, the tissues would become hypoxic in minutes. Furthermore, pregnancy induces complex immunological and hormonal changes in the partrurient and you can’t just induce this in a person at whim.
You can say that about fucking anything. Well a hundred years ago computers didn’t exist. So in the future they might swap brains between a human and a cat. HERP! Until you see actual promising looking research being done, saying "well it could happen in the future’ you just sound like an ignoramus.
lol
From a biomedical standpoint.
Clarification unnecessary. Accuracy of previous remark still holds water regardless of standpoint referenced.
Even if they are sincere in their beliefs that they behave ethically (and who isn’t, anyway), as the actions many of these people support have outcomes that oppose their stated beliefs, I don’t think calling it pretense is a wrong use of the word.
Besides, failing to understand how their mind works? You have greater insight into that, but I don’t believe sincere beliefs are more important than the results of the actions caused by these beliefs. Trillian mentioned communism, which is a great example. Despite their forthrightness, supporting policies that make it harder for women to have access to abortion or protesting outside PP is still rolling back rights.
Sin: All I know is that I’ve heard about this being researched. Maybe you’re right and it’ll never be possible, or maybe you’ll be wrong and they’ll find a way to make it work.
Charle: Welcome to my ignore list.
Sinistral! I’ve been agreeing with you through out this thread! Reward my loyalty by making Wilfredo unable to ignore me!
Wilf: and what do you know of what’s being researched? By all means, provide me sources. Give me names. Give me a website. Anything. If you’re going to challenge me, then challenge me honestly on what it is that I apparently don’t know, because your lack of substantiation makes it look like you are ignorant about the extent to which you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You have to grounds on which to lecture me when all you have to present is unsubstantiated hand waving while at the same time you ignore the very simple points I bring up.
Charl: that is unfortunately out of my reach…
“Pretense” never describes a sincere belief, and it’s downright strange that Merriam-Webster offered so vague a definition first. “Pretense” is a form of “pretend,” and it implies conscious falsehood. E.g.,
I wasn’t defending the truth or merits of their beliefs; just their sincerity in holding them. They’re not pretending to oppose abortion so as to subjugate women. Most vigorous pro-life advocates I know are women.
Also, protesting outside Planned Parenthood is hardly rolling back rights. Peaceful protest is a way of exercising the right to free speech. It’s how ordinary citizens participate in the political process between elections. Whether state-by-state abortion regulations would abridge mothers’ rights or protect babies’ rights is a matter for debate, but the mere act of protesting hardly offends anyone’s constitutional rights.
In a billion years might we develop the technology?
I think what Sinistral meant was “in the time that humanity has left on earth, we will not figure out a way to have fetus transplants” But we only have like 50 years left, assuming we outlaw abortion. Now if we HAD a billion years left, I’m sure he would be willing to entertain the thought. But we’re dead, bitches, DEAD! And honestly, that is a waste of research, why transplant when you can just take a pill and dissolve the fetus?
In a billion years, in all probability we’ll be extinct. Has it occurred to you that should our technology ever be so advanced that we won’t need to? Unless you have anything of substance to say to challenge what I said other than laughable magical hand waving, I’m not going to bother responding to your post. Hell, I’ll respond if you bother showing me that you even understand the complexity of the systems involved because its obvious you don’t. Its pointless to keep responding to this kind of trolling because all it does is derail the thread. As it stands, making these kinds of ridiculous comments is adds nothing to the discussion and only detracts from the main topic, which is that its getting harder and harder for abortion in the US.
Here’s a link to an example of that research I mentioned. Just to show I wasn’t pulling it out of my ass. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9605071
PS: and don’t worry, this is my last post on this thread. Seriously, some of you have forgotten how to have a casual conversation.
While I wouldn’t agree with “never possible”, it’s also not likely at all in the near future. These goats were very closed to term (<2 weeks) and were on average supported for a duration of less than a week, despite being almost fully developed). There are many hormonal, immunological, and developmental controls and microenvironments that have to be accurately duplicated, and be responsive to the fetus. This is extremely difficult and is not anywhere near possible with our current technology, but I wouldn’t say that it’s impossible.
I don’t doubt that they are sincere in their beliefs. But their beliefs don’t lead to behaviour that I deem as ethical and, therefore, is “making something that is not the case appear true” etc. As for protests outside clinics, they are harassing people who are trying to make important medical decisions, which are already hard to take without 3rd parties interfering. Isn’t that a degree of bullying?
Classic Wilf.
While the article Wilf mentioned is interesting, it doesn’t come close to or even pretend to attempt to be meaningful in the context of placental/fetal transplants. It is a proposed support system for surgeries in utero.