you guys should read this

about the Military Tribunals, a little overwrought, but still…

That is an excellent post that will ultimately have no effect, unfortunately.

I don’t have the hope that any opposition will rise for the reasons elaborated on at the end of the thing about the readiness to oppose tyrany and lack of education.

I see your…-was-lost.html
and raise you a
(it’s just something that I’m reading right now, as long as it’s a political thread. Their moral standards are laughable, but the analysis of conservatism is still decent)


finally something we can agree on!

Sinistral - I might send the column to my father, and if it changes his opinion on some current political issues then that’s something. The biggest problem today is that the very ability to get people to listen to anything is so stifled by a culture of bland mainstream partisanship.


I agree with you.

However, I believe that when we want to change people’s opinions, we have to ask why it is they have the opinions they have. Its not just because there was 9/11 and a lot of propaganda and an irresponsible media. You have to look into why people went along with it. That’s when I lose hope, because these things don’t change.

A most accurate assessment. She was a shitty writer, too.

If I had refused to take the oath in 1935, it would have meant that thousands and thousands like me, all over Germany, were refusing to take it. Their refusal would have heartened millions. Thus the regime would have been overthrown, or, indeed, would never have come to power in the first place.

There are people speaking out against this everywhere in forums and blogs. A Google news search on “military commissions act” shows a majority of Google’s ‘media outlets’ condemning it. I would imagine that right now, there are debates raging on all the television news channels (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) as well.

What can I do? Vote Democrat? What does that matter when Haliburton provides the machines I vote with? Should I rally my family to vote Democrat? My fundamentalist Christian family believes that the Democrats are evil due to pro-choice, and refuse to question the Republicans…just as they refuse to question their “God”.

I would assume the voting majority of the “red-states” has similar views to my family, and will not question their faith in the Republicans. Comparisons of the Bush regime to Hitler are blasphemy and will only be met with ridicule and condemnation! They do not question their faith, period.

People don’t give a shit because they’re making enough money to raise their kids and go on nice family vacations, retire, and die comfortably. Sure, gas is expensive - I guess I’ll only put 14% of my salary into my 401k instead of 15% to cover the difference…such sacrifice! What more could you ask for?

I believe that people will begin to care when there is a draft, and the unwilling are being ordered to go die for what is clearly an unjust, economic war. The protests will become violent like they did in the 70’s, and when people start dying for the cause, it will invoke change. Fat & Happy American is going to be fucking pissed when his 18 year old son comes home in a body bag after being drafted. I hope that then the majority will call for reform.

Or maybe I’m wrong, and America will continue to just roll over. Either way, I ask again - what can I do? Sure, I can express my discontent in forums and blogs like thousands of others, but nobody is listening. Where is this oath I can refuse?

It’s a good read, but sadly it’s a blog and blogs like posts on messageboards only reach those who already agree. We could pass it on, but again, those who’ll read it are the ones who already agree, those who don’t will discard is as a leftwing blog.

It’s doubtful anyone will care until it harms them. We humans are like that.

Halliburton has nothing to do with voting machines. Diebold does, but Halliburton doesn’t.

The idea is the same. Diebold is a front for Republican interests and has a shady and unjustified grip over the electorate.

BTW: Why do we even need voting “machines”? Especially were we to do away with the increasingly absurd bedsheet ballots and abolish the practice of electing judges and so forth, which strikes me as very strange, there is no reason why people couldn’t simply be provided a list of candidates for a couple important offices and write in their names. Electronic voting is overly complex, and I think the USA is the only country to “need” this.

I could be wrong, I hear the Swedes get to vote on everything so much as whether or not their prime minister can eat breakfast that morning.

It always amazes me how these erstwhile vikings have become so sedate and peaceful.

I vote bush does not eat breakfast tomarrow.

Been there, done that.

I was never disputing his claims or anything, just correcting him on which corporation handled the voting machines.

So Merlin, any luck?

Sorry to do this, but could someone sum up what the article Merlin linked to is about? I started trying to read it, but the article was written with such a overwritten style and preaching tone that I just couldn’t stomach more than skimming the first couple of paragraphs. I really am curious about it - I just can’t bear to read it.

Republicans bad. Democrats bad.

I’m currently mentally debating whether the article I posted or the one RPT posted would have a better affect on my father. I can’t decide.

Just butting in to say close but no cookie. That would be Switzerland, but many make that mistake :slight_smile:

I remember that they had a vote about whether or not to keep using carriage pigeons five or so years ago… and they decided to keep the birdies in action.