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The Core RPGC Main Forum
21

US Flags flying does not equal patriotism.

I see out there more idiots proclaiming to be patriots, and mistreating said flags (say, by flying them outside your car, which could really hurt it). Not only this, but these “patriots” are quick to abandon our American ideals of free speech and a right to a trial if it is suspected that these people are “traiterous” or perhaps even “TERRORISTS.”

By the government’s current definition of terrorist, you can be labeled one for simply dissagreeing with the government’s decisions, or attending a peace rally. And so this forced patriotism that still has its false tinny taste in our mouths is revealed as a necessary parody, a play to assure the government’s control.

But all of this, like what you said, are kinda off the topic. :stuck_out_tongue:

22

rountree:

a flag on a car says “i support and love my country”. it’s a display of support. that’s why my mother has one on her car; i’m glad to see you’re arrogant enough to call her (and millions of others) idiots, it speaks volumes about your character. i guess you’re just that much more brilliant than all of those “idiots”. you may think it’s disrespectful, but you’re in a rather small minority. and that’s your right, and it’s fine.

the governments definition of terrorist has nothing to do with what you said. if that were so, 10% of the country, and half the celebrities would be locked up right now. the people who lost their rights are the illegal immigrants, and people who went to terrorist camps. those people don’t deserve to have rights, they shouldn’t be here. i haven’t heard any news about american citizens being held without trial - just the illegal immigrants. sucks to be them, i guess. read about the “Lackawanna Six” in Buffalo, where I’m from. there was an outrage here that the government was imprisoning innocent citizens. turns out those 6 were in afghanistan at a terrorist camp a few years ago, and even so, they were given fair trial. all the people here crying about losing rights were wrong. and they weren’t labelled for speaking out against the government.

in ww2, we rounded up all the japanese, and put them in camps during the war in the interest of national security. once the threat was over, they were released. something like that wouldn’t fly in this day and age, our society is far too politically correct. the steps we’ve taken the last few years are infinitely much less drastic than what we did 50 years ago. in other words, i don’t see us losing our freedom anytime soon.

23

You obviously misunderstood what I said with the flag outside the car thing. It actually RUINS the flag. The colours fade and it gets ratty. People fifty years ago would not stand for this. And I’m sure that our founding fathers would not like to see our very FLAG being sold for profit in stores everywhere.

"12/13/02: Secret Service Agents Question Student About Anti-Bush Shirt

(from) WHIO-TV, NEWSCENTER 7

Secret Service Agents question a Bellbrook High School student for wearing a controversial t-shirt.

The shirt has a picture of President Bush on it and the words, “not my president.” The picture also showed cross-hairs on the Bush’s forehead.

Because this issue is so sensitive, even we don’t know the students name.

But we can tell you this whole thing was brought to the attention of school administrators after two students came forward and complained.

According to the Assistant Principal, the student had worn it before and the shirt didn’t cause any problems until cross hairs appeared on the President’s forehead.

The Assistant Principal confiscated the shirt, called the FBI and agents then called the secret service.

From that point, the Secret Service took over the investigation and met with the student and essentially treated the situation as a potential threat on the president.

There are more than 800 students at Bellbrook High School and the Assistant Principal says they’re all good kids, but he’s especially proud of two of them.

The Assistant Principal states that he is proud of the two students who brought the issue to the attention of the school administration. "

And you can look at things like this and say that the government isn’t being a little TOO wary? A little TOO heavy handed? :stuck_out_tongue:

24

i understood perfectly…millions of idiots, unlike you. no further comment.

threatening to kill the president, even in jest, is not protected by our freedom of speech. it’s against the law, as our “founding fathers” you admire so much, set forth.

is a kid wearing a shirt with cross hairs over our president’s face a true threat? well, kids nowadays shooting eachother up at the age of 14 or whatever - could be. if his parents allowed him to wear it, they might be a threat. that’s a strong and ridiculous statement to make, and the FBI should have been called. it’s just another example of America remaining true to its origins.

25

How is a kid wearing a t-shirt a threat to national security, pray tell, especially when Bush is a VERY well protected man?

26

That is a complete load of bullshit. Its a fucking T-shirt. Its not even a direct threat, its just crosshairs. Fucking pigs like that principal should be shot in the face for being such ignorant assholes. Its a T-shirt, first amendment. The Arrogant Sons Of Bitches sing a song called “Kill the President” and are they going to be arrested for expressing their thoughts about the president? Locke, my freind has a “Zombie” t-shirt that says “I am going to eat you!” Are people supposed to be threatened by that? Are they supposed to run away screaming for their lives because the t-shirt says “I’m going to eat you!”? Should he be arrested? I think not.

27

as i already stated:

“threatening to kill the president, even in jest, is not protected by our freedom of speech. it’s against the law, as our “founding fathers” you admire so much, set forth.” this has been in place for over 200 years.

Shinobi, if your friend wore a shirt that said “I’m going to kill George Bush”, yeah, he might be arrested, because it’s a specific statement aimed at the president. “i’m gonna eat people” has nothing to do with any individual; i’d think you could have figured that out without any help. any threat to kill the president is investigated, regardless of the likelihood of it happening.

i’d be interested to see what happened in that case. was the kid suspended or expelled? that might be harsh if the kid didn’t realize the seriousness of his offense.

one of my personal favorite bumperstickers is “Guns don’t kill people - I DO!!” anyhow…if you think it’s so stupid, go ahead and wear a t-shirt saying “I’m going to assasinate George Bush”. you’ll realize who the stupid person is when you’re getting interrogated by god only knows. you’ll think twice when you’re spending the weekend with Bubba as a reward for being so brilliant.

28

LockeJV I have to agree with you about the T-shirt issue. The Secret Service have a right to question someone wearing a shirt that suggests killing the president. Now Rountree I would be on your side in this if the shirt didn’t have the cross-hairs on it. If you wanna wear a shirt saying “Bush Sucks” I’m all for it. Threatening it kill someone is against the law tho.

LockeJV I just noticed you are from the Buffalo area too, where abouts are you? I’m from Lackawanna.

29

Lackawanna eh? right around the corner. I’m in Cheektowaga, right by West Seneca. I’ll try to catch you on AIM or in the IRC room sometime - I always use the same name.

30

Originally posted by SoulDivider
No don’t get me wrong here, I’m all for free speech. I just think you should think before you speak. That one girl from the Dixie Chicks said something like “I’m embarrassed to come from the same state as bush” These girls are country music singers and they wonder why their record sales went down. I bet all those rednecks were pissed.:slight_smile:

Funny thing: their album sales actually went UP after the comments, not down. And they were still selling out concerts afterwards, too.

[http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php]

Originally posted by LockeJV
The right has every right to call whoever they want traitors; this is an example of freedom of speech. I didn’t hear about any of the allegations in that article (except Dixie Chicks), and nobody i know gives a rats ass about Madonna, Vedder or Durst. Again, people had the right to speak out against the war, and people had the right to criticize them for doing so.

There is a VERY BIG difference between criticizing someone and/or their stance, and resorting to slanderous (key word) name calling. Have Durst, Vedder, or Madonna defected to another country? Have they denounced this government AND ENDORSED ANOTHER? Have they sold arms secrets or technology to other nations?

NO.

They are not traitors (and I wish they would bring suit against these fringe idiots just to make an example of them for labelling them so). They are dissenting voices. There is a huge difference, obvious to anyone not blinded/brainwashed by jingoistic wargasms.

And you can’t make implicit or overt threats on the life of the president of the United States. Unless you are/were Jesse Helms playing to the home crowd while Clinton was still in office. Then it’s okay, but the rest of you…

So yeah, the “kill bush” shirts were not a wise wardrobe choice [though what if anything is happening to the manufacturer?]

Besides, I’m against the wanton slaughter of dumb animals. :o


There’s more US flags flying now then there has been since World War 2. Marketers have been taking strides to play off patriotism to sell product…it’s everywhere.

…And that’s what disgusts me most of all. Everything has to be reduced and degraded to money-making. 9/11 Action Figures being the apex (or nadir, since this is a negative thing) as far as I’ve seen.

But then again, what’s more American then selling whatever crap people are dumb enough to pay you for.

[Edit: Okay, quote Misattributed to SoulDivider now properly attributed to LockeJV.]

31

:slight_smile: nice post Kaiser!

32

That’s true. Last time I checked, accusing someone of treason was damning enough for slander/libel charges to be brought up (hasn’t this happened before?).

33

Originally posted by Rountree
[b]US Flags flying does not equal patriotism.

I see out there more idiots proclaiming to be patriots, and mistreating said flags (say, by flying them outside your car, which could really hurt it). Not only this, but these “patriots” are quick to abandon our American ideals of free speech and a right to a trial if it is suspected that these people are “traiterous” or perhaps even “TERRORISTS.”

By the government’s current definition of terrorist, you can be labeled one for simply dissagreeing with the government’s decisions, or attending a peace rally. And so this forced patriotism that still has its false tinny taste in our mouths is revealed as a necessary parody, a play to assure the government’s control.

But all of this, like what you said, are kinda off the topic. :stuck_out_tongue: [/b]

and to quote george carlin: “y’see, i got this real moron thing i do. it’s called THINKING.”

34

When I say America is turning away from itself I’m not only refering to, and probably least of all, traitor articles such as this.

There is the ‘Patriot Act’ for one; which, in the form it is written, allows legal authorities to confine people on suspicion. Not only that it also effectively deals away with the right to be trialed by an open court, if trialed by one at all.

Then there’s the media. From my accounts: Mostly from people returning from the USA; the American medias have stopped doing their job as the fourth power - the critical watchdog, and pretents everything horribly one sided. And then there’s the stories of people - such as Michael Moore, who have experienced being censored, or attempted censored.

35

KaiserVonAlmasy, That second quote on your last post wasn’t mine.

Originally posted by KaiserVonAlmasy
[b]Funny thing: their album sales actually went UP after the comments, not down. And they were still selling out concerts afterwards, too.

[http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php][/b]

I must admit I got the news about the Dixie Chicks from The news somewhere and Moore might be right on the their album sales. I don’t believe all that Michael Moore says since I believe people found out that some of his facts in Bowling for Columbine were untrue or exaggerated

36

Micheal Moore got what he deserved; his comments were very incsensitive considering the day he gave them, which happened to have been full of casualties. And Bowling for Columnbine was preety exaggerated; if I find the site with all that info I’ll link it, I know they had a banner on Something Awful.

37

Kaiser, will you have my children?

38

A-A-A-AHEM.

39

Originally posted by Sinistral
Kaiser, will you have my children?

i think we all know what kaiser’s going to say…

40

Originally posted by Sinistral
Kaiser, will you have my children?

I can’t bear children, sorry.
I don’t have a uterus in which to carry said children to term.

'Sides, Astral might get mad/jealous [and she could probably beat me up, too. :o]