Was Neo the one...

Don’t read on if you haven’t seen it. All spoiler.

…before he died? To me, no. I always got the impression that he wasn’t the One until afterwards, and here are my reasons in brief.

1: So far as I can tell, the Oracle never actually lied. And she said he wasn’t the One, but he might be “In your next life”. He dies, comes back to life. His next life, see?

2: He saw the code only AFTER dying. Suggest anything to anyone?

3: Yes, I know he was able to be an agent BEFORE he was the One, but that was because his belief was such that he made himself do it. And even then, Smith could have killed him easily, he just wanted the train to do it.

That is all.

You might want to put junk text in the beginning and a spoiler tag.

…it’s the Matrix! How many people will be reading this who haven’t seen this!
But fine.

According to the Oracle’s prophesy to Trinity, Neo was necessarily the One before he died.

Trinity acknowledged her love for Neo long before he died: “Everything the Oracle has told me has come true. Everything but this.” The Oracle told her “that [she] would fall in love with a dead man, and the man that [she] loved, would be the One.” At this point, she’s not convinced that Neo is the One, and Neo certainly isn’t dead, so she can only be referring to the fact that she loves Neo.

Trinity was in love with Neo before he died. The Oracle said that Trinity would fall in love with the One. Hence, Neo was the One, before he died. Unless the Oracle was wrong, in which case she could also have been wrong about Neo not being the One in the first place. Either way, Morpheus says “Try not to think of it in terms of right and wrong… She is a guide, Neo. She can help you to find the path,” and then later, “She told you exactly what you needed to hear…that’s all. Neo, sooner or later, you’re going to realize, just as I did, that there’s a difference between knowing the path and walking the path,” implying that Neo was the one all along regardless of what the Oracle said, and this still took place before Neo died. On top of that, there’s a difference between being right and telling the truth. No one ever said the Oracle didn’t lie. Who knows what she could have been thinking.

Even if you completely ignore this evidence, the Wachowski brothers clearly wanted to emphasize Neo’s one-ness before he was dead. Take the Cypher conflict as an example.

“If Morpheus was right, then there’s no way I can pull this plug. I mean, if Neo’s The One, then there’d have to be some kind of miracle to stop me. I mean… how can he be the One… if he’s dead? You never did answer me before, if you bought into Morpheus’ bullshit… come on! All I want is a little yes or a no! Look into his eyes, those big pretty eyes. Tell me… Yes or No?”


“No! I don’t believe it!” <i>Cypher is killed by tank.</i>

I don’t know how it could’ve been made any more obvious. This is all straight from the movie.

Edit: By the way, your second and third points are both extremely wreckless assumptions.

I concure. He was the only one tthat could see the code while in the matrix, right? Besides Smith?

Hades, fine. How do YOU explain the fact that he could see the code only AFTER he died.

And of course Cyber couldn’t kill him, if he killed him like that, he’d be dead. Finito. No coming back. Never. DEAD. And if she says it’s all come true, that would make it unfulfiled. Suggesting in fact, that he WASN’T the one at that time.

And uh…is TrkJac concurring with Hades or with me?

Hades. Neo could see the code at the end of the first movie. There was none of him dying or anything before.


He dies before he sees the code. Were you not watching the movie and seeing him die?

When did he? I don’t remember him dying. He went through the whole movie thinking he wasn’t the one, but at the end, when he was fighting the guy in the hallway, he could see the code.

He gets shot a whole clip from a gun on the chest! The computers on the ship show him as dead! What other proof do you want?!

Hades, fine. How do YOU explain the fact that he could see the code only AFTER he died.
I don’t need to, there’s no stated correlation between seeing code and being the One. That was a neat special effect, nothing more.

And of course Cyber couldn’t kill him, if he killed him like that, he’d be dead. Finito. No coming back. Never. DEAD. And if she says it’s all come true, that would make it unfulfiled. Suggesting in fact, that he WASN’T the one at that time.
Cypher states that he can’t be the One if he’s dead, and yet, according to the Oracle, being dead is required in order for him to be the one. You stated that if Cypher killed him at this point there would be no coming back. If no ressurection was possible at this point, then the fact that he didn’t die strongly supports the conclusion that he is the One, ESPCIALLY considering the dialogue between Cypher and Trinity.

Look. If he had died then, this wouldn’t have happened:

  1. He wouldn’t have being in that hallway to be killed in the first place, so;

  2. Trinity would never have told him she loved him, so;

  3. She would never have kissed him, so;

  4. He would never have come back to life, so;

  5. He would never have seen the code, so;

  6. The current agents would have being able to beat him easily once they teamed up even if he WAS somehow brought back to life, so;

  7. How could he have being the one?

It may not exactly mean he is the One, but it does put him above all the other humans plugged into the Matrix. As far as it’s shown, other than the programs, he is the only one who can see the code while inside the Matrix.

I thought we were discussing what actually HAPPENED, not mere what-ifs. Neo did NOT die at the hands of Cypher. That was the ENTIRE point.

Edit: Nice point, Seraphim! I have a feeling that any response I give would lead to a discussion about degrees of One-ness, though, and I definately do NOT want to get into that.

Yes, but I was explaining why that didn’t show he was the one at that time. Duh.

I think evidence leans stronger towards the fact that Neo was the One before he died, also. I think the Oracle’s remark on how he might be the One in the next life was just a cryptic comment about his belief in himself, not that he was currently not the One. But we knew he was. Dramatic irony, you know.

It did show that he wasn’t necessarily not the one, though. You’re still ignoring the dialogue, too. It didn’t prove within the characters’ spheres of understanding that Neo was the one, but it was clearly a device used by the Wachowski brothers to convey to the audience that he was.

Meh. This is getting circular. I’m gonna be repeating the same points soon, you’ll be arguing back the same arguments. And so on.
So I’m gonna go on believing that he wasn’t the One, though he had the potential in him to become the one, and fate and destiny and all that thing was conspiring to make it so, and you can go on believing that he was the one only…not as much. Or whatever it is you believe, I’m not quite clear on that.
Or you could just e-mail the Wachowski brothers and see what they meant. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’d be arguing back the same arguments only if you were repeating the same flawed conclusions. I’m sure you could easily find the script and dump a freight-train-load of counter-quotes on me if you wanted, but as it stands right now, I agree. This is pointless :stuck_out_tongue:

Well actually no one that I knew of who watched the movie even thought of this question. We all accepted Neo as <i>being the One</i>. No “before” or “after”. Being the One was a <i>property</i> of Neo, and he couldn’t stop being the One no more than he could stop being a human male.