Ultimecia theory - your opinions?

[CrackAnne]

What I’m talking about is the theory that Ultimecia is… Rinoa! If you don’t know about it, run a Google search. Anyway, I wanted to know people’s opinons on the theory…? I, myself… Well, when friend Rory told me about it, I nearly had a litter of kittens on the spot. Seriously, I would have thrown a brick at him if I had one. I (forgive me!) actually LIKED Rinoa, so to hear she could be the same as ULTIMECIA… It was so degrading. Although, considering it, all the evidence really does stack up against Rinoa… especially that line in the Ragnarok - “I don’t want the future. I want the present to stand still.” Or something like that.

So… now I’ve had my ramble… you?

[Heaven_s_Soldier]

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.

I’ve never believed this theory, I just think that it is a loads of crap.

However I will admit that it is true that Rinoa’s sorceress powers, become Ultimecia’s powers, but the idea that she becomes her, is total crap.

And besides the only real evidence, I have ever heard people come up with is that the two look a like, which is just a concidence!!

[The_Wizardmaster]

Yeah, its like if I made a fanfic about laguna and ultimecia got together and had seifer, doesnt mean its true. Although…

[Evangelion]

Uh no…Ultimecia posessed Edea and she never became one body…

EDIT:

taken from www.rpgamer.com

[b]Fact 1 Counterpoint: Granted, sorceresses in FF8 seem to either age very slowly or not at all. It is conceivable that Rinoa could live long enough to become Ultimecia, though Ultimecia is destroyed as the game notes during her own time. Time compression forces past, present, and future to exist simultaneously. It is conceivable that, in the endgame sequence, Squall the elder could stand next to Squall the younger when Squall the elder is from another space-time, but if all of space-time has been “compressed” into a kind of supreme “now,” then it is not consistent that Rinoa and Ultimecia could stand next to each other, actively pursuing the death of “herself;” that is, each trying to kill the other.

Fact 2 Counterpoint: A quick review of the FF8 script shows the explanation for Rinoa’s inherited power. Zell says, “Matron’s not a sorceress anymore.” “Matron gave away her power to someone without realizing it.” Squall thinks, (To Rinoa…). Earlier Edea states that she inherited her sorceress power at the age of 5. The ending sequence shows her inheriting power from Ultimecia when she is obviously grown and running the orphanage. If she bequeathed her original power to Rinoa, there is no conflict here. I could not locate the statement in the game that a sorceress was required to die to pass on their powers, only the suggestion that such was the usual progression of events.

Fact 3 Counterpoint: The self-proclaimed theme of FF8 is love. Obviously the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory provides antithetical interpretation for the story’s ultimate “take,” if you will, on love. The traditional interpretation of the story’s ending-that is, the obvious way to interpret the gist of the story’s ending, though there are any number of details that are left open to be pondered by the player-suggests a positive view of love as a thing that gives light in a world where, as Ultimecia suggests, everything comes to an end. This is a classically romantic ideal-the mutability of our world. Everything, no matter how wonderful it might be for a time, eventually comes to an end. Numerous poets from centuries past spent their lives pondering this tragic element of our reality. That Ultimecia as a character would be consumed by the sadness of this element of her reality, that she would, in her insanity, desire to absorb existence into herself, to bring things to an ultimate end as a way to stop the pain of never-ending change, is not a meaningless role for her to fill as an element of the story. Her speech during the final battle scene reflects such ideals and gives the player insight into her motivations, as we have precious little in the way of direct address from Ultimecia in the game.

The R=U theory would present a completely opposite theme, one in which love is an ultimately futile entity in which the already unbearable pain of change is brought to a climax in the degenerative insanity of the Rinoa to Ultimecia transition. While admittedly an intriguing idea, this is not consistent with the way in which the game deals with its theme in other ways. The final CGI especially demonstrates the value being placed on human relationships-it recounts just about every one we encounter, from the Seifer/Raijin/Fujin friendship, to Cid and Edea, to Selphie and Irvine. All of these end on a decidedly positive note. This last bit of story is presented in such a way as to build the player’s suspense-yes, yes, we see all of these people happy after the final battle, but what about Squall? Is he alive?-that is finally answered at the end. Love, the game’s theme, is vindicated. It brought Squall back to Rinoa through the miasma of chaos in which he found himself after the final battle.

Fact 4 Counterpoint: The placement of Ultimecia’s castle might be just as easily attributed to any number of different things. That it is attached to the former orphanage doesn’t necessarily indicate anything, and the castle is over the water, not over the field. If the castle was placed near the field intentionally to suggest an alternate meaning such as this, one might easily ask why the castle was not floating over the field itself. The symbolism would certainly be much more clear if this were the case. Instead, we only have the silent testimony of the dead SeeDs to inform us of why Ultimecia wound up there instead of somewhere else.

Fact 5 Counterpoint: This is a bizarre use of logic. Ultimecia’s inability to recognize Squall in no way supports the Rinoa=Ultimecia argument-in fact, it is evidence against that argument. If Ultimecia remembered something like which field Squall promised to meet her in, one would think she’d have at least some small inkling of what her lost lover looks like. It is not that she “does not recognize [that] squall is squall,” it’s that she’s never seen or known the kid before.

Fact 6 Counterpoint: This is not supported by the available information in the game. The game states that Griever is, “in Squall’s mind, the strongest GF.” Squall knew about this GF beforehand, and if he believes it to be the strongest GF, then he clearly named his ring after this, the strongest of all Guardian Forces. This connection is strengthened by the fact that you can change the name of the ring/GF. There is undoubtedly a strong connection there, but the information available in the game suggests a different cause-effect relationship-Squall named his ring after the GF. There is no actual evidence within the game to suggest that the ring itself contains the GF, unless you assume that Ultimecia is Rinoa, in which case it does make sense. Granted, this relationship can be viewed in such a way to make it consistent with the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory, but it does not work as fundamental support, as it is just as consistent (arguably more so) in the traditional interpretation of the game’s plot[/b]

[Cidolfas]

I’m not going to say it’s “utter nonsense”, because the ideas that are in there are better thought-out than most, but no, I don’t believe it.

[canis]

“I don’t want the future. I want the present to stand still.”

that had another reason. she refered to the situation to be with squall, before she would be locked up, when they reached earth.

ultimecia wanted to put all time periodes in one compressed one, not that the present stands still.

And besides the only real evidence, I have ever heard people come up with is that the two look a like, which is just a concidence!!

i didn’t realize that they resemble each other. they are both women that’s all they have in common

[CrackAnne]

Actually, there is a great little Plot Analysis document on gamefaqs.com, by Sophie Chesire. The evidence she lays out in it is quite strong, so yes. Also, RE the looking like each other, I’m not saying it’s true, but someone superimposed her image over Ultimecia’s and apparently, their looks were over 90% similar. Well, here’s the evidence from that said document:

Before I tackle the issue of Ultimecia’s identity, its time to examine the
theoretical basis of the plot. Perhaps the most mind-bending fact about Final
Fantasy VIII, is that the plot revolves around a time loop. That is the end of
the events, set the beginning of the events in motion, to cause the end event
that will start the whole thing off etc.

The main problem with Time loops is how do they get started? It’s the old,
"what came first, the chicken or the egg? Ultimecia sets the events in motion
that will allow her to manoeuvre events in her past (i.e., using Edea, then
Rinoa when Edea is freed) she inevitably sets her in motion the events that
bring about her downfall, as only through her downfall can see she begin the
process.

The same paradox results in our heroes never being able to truly prevent
Ultimecia from coming into being. The “happy ending” implies Ultimecia’s
threat is now over, but in fact it can never be over for them. Ultimecia’s
reign is only at an end in the future, for Squall and the others; her coming to
be is inevitable. For only by allowing Ultimecia compress time can they throw
her back into the past and cause the establishment of SeeD and Garden.

This is why Ellone and Laguna allow Ultimecia to achieve Time Compression, only
by doing so can they bring SeeD and Garden into being. Some people have openly
questioned why the risk of allowing Time Compression was done, well if our
heroes had found a way to stop Ultimecia without Time Compressing, then SeeD
and Garden don’t exist anymore! And if they didn’t exist, then they couldn’t
have brought about the events that prevented them coming into existence, so
they must still exist!

Basically it’s the old, if you travel back in time and kill your grandfather,
you would cease to exits in the future, so would be unable to travel back in
time and kill your grandfather!

So we’re are back to the first question, how the hell does all this get
started?

When you start dealing with concepts such as time travel, you’re teetering on
the edge of some very complex concepts. For example, current Quantum Theory
posits that its IS in fact possible to go back in time and kill your own
grandfather and still exist to do so. The key to this is parallel universes.
The idea being that our homicidal time traveller starts off in Universe 1, he
travels back into time and kills his poor grandfather. This creates Universe 2
which runs parallel to Universe 1. When our time traveller returns to his time
in his time machine he returns to Universe 2, here his grandfather is dead and
he has no descendents, our murderer is a man out of time now. In Universe 1,
the grandfather still lives to eventually have the murderous grandson be born
and come after him.

So this probably implies at least two parallel universes in Final Fantasy VIII.
One in which perhaps quite a different sequence of events unfolds, which allow
Ultimecia to compress time. At the end of which some catastrophe throws
Ultimecia back in time and in her attempts to bring about Time Compression
again starts a new time loop in a new universe. So she still exists in her
first universe/timeline to kick off events, but is then trapped in the second
universe/timeline always sowing the “SeeDs” of her own future destruction in
the past! When we play the game, we could be viewing the first time the loop
runs it course or the millionth!

---

b) SO WHO IS ULTIMECIA?

My theory is that Ultimecia is actually… Rinoa!

Now before you all start throwing things, there is no concrete proof of this,
it’s pure speculation on my part. Part of the problem with Ultimecia is she is
such a nebulous threat, and no real clues are given to her identity. There is
an argument that she may not even be one single Sorceress but herself and
amalgam of Sorceress past. When she is trying to take over Adel, Odine worries
that Adel might actually become the driving personality and the implication is
that Ultimecia in the body of a powerful Sorceress might retain the personality
of that Sorceress (unlike when she took over Edea, who was subsumed).

There are many odd aspects to Rinoa. We are told Sorceresses get their
potential powers at age five (then it seems they have to inherit full powers
from a dying Sorceress). Julia, her mother dies in a car crash when Rinoa is
five. In the time-loop universe, this is also the year that Ultimecia arrives
back in the past. Rinoa speaks openly of passing her powers on and what will
happen. Perhaps in our first universe, a place where Rinoa never met Squall as
SeeD did not exist, Rinoa is much more embittered by the loss of her mother and
poor relationship with her father. (She may even have lost both parents in this
Universe and ended up at the Orphanage, explaining why Ultimecia appears there
in the past as when travelling through time, all are told to concentrate on one
places, a special place. Also though remember Rinoa and Squall make the
Orphanage the place they will meet each other if they ever get lost, so she
could have that attachment to the place as well).

Perhaps she came to the attention of the Esthar Soldiers searching for an heir
for Adel to pass her powers onto, with Ellone left to be experimented on for
her time control powers that Doc Odine is interested in. In this universe,
events may unfold so that Rinoa ends up inheriting powers from Adel and
possibly becomes a nasty piece of work. Possibly then the resistance to Adel
manages to carry over and capture and seal Rinoa instead.

After many, many years. Possibly thousands, something happens to release Rinoa,
who is probably by now, pretty narked off and possibly insane. She calls
herself Ultimecia and in a spectacular act of revenge she decides to wipeout
all living things that ever existed. Using the now perfected “Junction Machine
Ellone” she reaches back into the past and uses the young Ellone to allow her
to compress time. Now the universe splits. In universe 1, Time Compression is
achieved, but something goes wrong and Time Decompresses violently and possibly
remembering her mother, remerges back in the past at an Orphanage IN UNIVERSE
2. a new Universe in which the events of Universe 1 haven’t taken place yet.
There the Sorceress in potentia (Edea), receives her powers and Rinoa/Ultimecia
is gone. She can’t go back in time in Universe 1 as this would negate the
events that brought her there!

Now Ultimecia doesn’t exist yet in this Universe, she only exists as a
potential future. This flux of time is what allows people to know of her as a
Sorceress from the past. Note how NO ONE in the game can actually explain HOW
they know Ultimecia is from the future or indeed why the hell she wants to
Compress Time.

Edea, probably privy now to some of Ultimecia’s plans to bring herself back
into being sets up SeeD with her husband as normal. The plot unfolds as the
game, except when it comes the battle in the Lunatic Pandora. Time Compression
does not take place as Ultimecia does not exist in the future to bring it
about. Adel is killed and Rinoa and Squall live happily ever after.

Except they don’t, Rinoa becomes corrupted by the powers she inherited from
Ultimecia/herself. Squall devoted to her, becomes her Sorceress Knight. Rinoa
begins to use her power and the advanced science of Esthar to change the world
and the people in it. Eventually using “Junction machine Ellone” to reach back
into her past and use herself to Compress time. Imagine her surprise when in
her Castle, Squall, and herself arrive to destroy her!

The reason being is that in Universe 2, events are now changed as
Ultimecia/Rinoa now DOES exist in the future. With Ultimecia defeated, both
her and Squall travel back in time and into the past of Universe 2. Here once
again Edea inherits Ultimecia’s powers. However in Universe 2, Squall never
escapes the limbo he finds himself trapped in. An embittered Rinoa, with her
Ultimecia inherited powers decides far in the future to once again, Compress
Time in an effort to bring him back and perhaps she does bring him back
although in keeping with the changes wrought on her by all the temporal
shenanigans, Squall returns to her in a much altered form…

Then once again Squall and her younger self arrive from the past and defeat
her, sending her back into the past to initiate the events using her future
self that now exists.

The third universe is the one “we” the viewer experience when Squall arrives
back safely from the limbo. And he and Rinoa live happily ever after. Except
they don’t, Rinoa becomes corrupted by the powers she inherited from
Ultimecia/herself. Squall devoted to her, becomes her Sorceress Knight. Rinoa
begins to use her power and the advanced science of Esthar to change the world
and the people in it. Eventually using “Junction machine Ellone” to reach back
into her past and use herself to Compress time so she can enjoy an eternal
“present” with Squall.

This is my basic theory then, that in the first Universe, Rinoa/Ultimecia in a
completely separate series of events bring about time compression and she is
kicked over into universe 2. This allows SeeD to exist in the first version of
Universe 2, even though at that point, Ultimecia has not compressed time. After
past events are changed several times in this universe by the unfolding future
ones, the final time loop is set up in Universe 2 with Rinoa/Ultimecia
attempting to either bring back the lost Squall or seeking to prolong her
existence with him. This plays over and over as it must do, created as it is
from actions in the future, brought about by results those actions had on the
past.

Well, after all that you probably think, “WHAT?”. Like I said it’s only
speculation, but Ultimecia’s reasons are never really explained in the game.
Yet when I replayed the game, one line of Rinoa’s really chilled me.

---

Esthar Airstation: Rinoa? The sorceress!? She’s on the ship!?

Squall: (So… It’s true? Rinoa is a sorceress?)

Rinoa: I’ve… become a sorceress. I can’t stay with you anymore, Squall.

Esthar Airstation: Respond, Ragnarok!

Rinoa: I don’t want the future. I want the present to stand still. I just want
to stay here with you…

Squall: (Rinoa…)

Esthar Airstation: Respond, Ragnarok!

Rinoa: Nobody would want to be around me anymore…

Esthar Airstation: The sorceress will be seized upon arrival. Be sure to follow
the crews instructions.

Rinoa: I’m… scared.

Esthar Airstation: Squall, do you copy? Is the sorceress listening, too?

Squall breaks off contact with the Esthar Airstation.

Rinoa: I’m scared, Squall.

Squall goes to Rinoa.

Rinoa: I don’t wanna go back.

Look at that line: “I don’t want the future. I want the present to stand
still”. If that doesn’t sound like a reason for Time Compression I don’t know
what does!

Later on Squall vows to be her knight, even if she fears she may turn bad. He
will not destroy her even if she does, he will stand by her. So it is easy to
imagine them becoming corrupted in the future. Her love for him provides
motivation to compress time in both scenarios, either lost in limbo or safely
back.

---

Rinoa: What’ll become of me?

Squall: Don’t worry about it. There’ve been many good sorceress. Edea
was one. You can be like her.

Rinoa: But Edea’s still… I can’t guarantee anything, either, if Ultimecia
possesses me again… You saw me. She controlled me in outerspace and made me
break Adel’s seal. What might happen next time? What will I end up doing? Will
I end up fighting everyone? …Scary thought, isn’t it?

Squall: (Rinoa…) (Even if you end up as the world’s enemy.) (I’ll…)
(I’ll be your knight.)

Rinoa: If I fall under Ultimecia’s control again… SeeD will come kill me,
right? And the leader of SeeD is you, Squall… Squall’s sword will pierce my
heart… I guess it’s ok if it’s you, Squall. Nobody else. Squall, if that
ever happens…

Squall: That’s enough! I’ll never do anything like that. The sorceress I’m
after is not you, Rinoa. My enemy is the sorceress from the future…
Ultimecia.

Rinoa: Ultimecia lives in the future and possesses me. She uses my body as her
extension in this world. How will you save me?

Squall: I’ll come up with something… There’s gotta be a way.

Rinoa: …

Being a Rinoa fan, I don’t think she is intrinsically evil. She is somebody
who due to the enormous stresses and strains caused by time alteration and her
own powers has probably developed into a monstrous being with only a trace of
Rinoas essence left.

For this reason I not only believe Ultimecia to be the future incarnation of
Rinoa, I also believe her GF Griever to be Squall! Is it too much postulate
that as she changes her own appearance in the future so she makes Squall into a
being of greater power, fit for the Ultimate Sorceress? Or retrieves him from
limbo, the power of her mind calling him forth in that form? The emphasis given
to the Griever ring seems to imply this (in my deranged mind at least!). We
are never told how GF’s come about, but the process in FFX seems to be likely
(both games are notably for giving Summons beasts more personality and
flexibility) where a person becomes an Aeon and can be called upon. The
merging of Ultimecia and Griever seems very reminiscent of the Sin/Aeon merger
in FFX as well.

If you don’t buy the idea that Ultimecia is Rinoa, the two-universe theory
still stands as a valid way of kicking off the whole sequence of events. With
Ultimecia compressing time for reasons known only to the fevered brains of the
developers. This simplifies the events a bit (!).

• Ultimecia compresses time in Universe 1 and it goes wrong
• Ultimecia arrives back in Universe 2 and possesses Edea
• Initially Ultimecia does not exist in the future of Universe 2
• She plans to bring herself into being by passing herself from Sorceress to
  Sorceress
• Edea is able to see her future plans before being wholly taken over
• SeeD is set up as normal
• With no Ultimecia in this future, no time compression is planned
• Instead Ultimecia subtly passes herself along through the generations with
  SeeDs always combating, but never destroying her
• In the far future she finally exists and using Ellone reaches into the past.
  This changes some aspects of the past with the plot unfolding as we see it, now
  Ultimecia is known of in the future.
• Time Compresses, Squall etc kill her in the future. She returns to the past
  and kickstarts the timeloop. Now she exists both in the past AND future in this
  Universe and that’s the game we play!

[canis]

give me some time to process that…
worn out by that heaps of words i’m pondering to believe you

[Pierson]

I’d read a lot of Larry Niven and Michael Crichton (Timeline puts forth a similar theory of Time Travel) so I get that, Anne. To me Rinoa/Ultimecea = The Same, is about on par with Hitomi/Sora = Wing Goddess in Escaflowne, and the true meaning of End of Eva, 'cause ithose kind of riddles appeal to me. However there’s still very little gaming evidence, even in that analysis of the plot. It seems to hinge on the vagarities of a single theory with only a couple of lines of (pretty unambiguous I’ll admit) dialogue to back it up. I think until someone asks Sakaguchi this will forever remain a mystery.

[Evangelion]

I agree with Pierson. And you can’t really compare Rinoa to Ultimecia and say they were like 90 % similar. For one thing, Ultimecia has a much larger rack er uh. Maybe in compressed time Rinoa develops a little bit?

But seriously, no, they don’t look alike, and you can’t possibly even back that up. Ultimecia has so much gunk on her face, and if you want me to get a bit technical, her face is much more rounder than Rinoa’s. I compared some pics, and it might be the angle. But still, how can anyone say that they look so similar when Ultimecia hides underneath that make up and accessories? Wishful thinking on your part.

EDIT:

[b]Ultimecia compresses time in Universe 1 and it goes wrong

• Ultimecia arrives back in Universe 2 and possesses Edea
• Initially Ultimecia does not exist in the future of Universe 2
• She plans to bring herself into being by passing herself from Sorceress to
  Sorceress
• Edea is able to see her future plans before being wholly taken over
• SeeD is set up as normal
• With no Ultimecia in this future, no time compression is planned
• Instead Ultimecia subtly passes herself along through the generations with
  SeeDs always combating, but never destroying her
• In the far future she finally exists and using Ellone reaches into the past.
  This changes some aspects of the past with the plot unfolding as we see it, now
  Ultimecia is known of in the future.
• Time Compresses, Squall etc kill her in the future. She returns to the past
  and kickstarts the timeloop. Now she exists both in the past AND future in this
  Universe and that’s the game we play![/b]

The problem with this is that Ultimecia wasn’t trying to pass herself along to sorceress to sorceress, at least not in our timeline. She was focused on finding Elone, I assume. She doesn;t need to keep herself alive when she can just use resources at hand instantly to let her do what she wants. If she was going to pass herself to sorceress to sorceress why did she possess Edea for so long and not go for Adel, the more powerful one instead? Which backs up my point that she was only using who was available, not concentrating on who lived or died.

I also don’t believe SeeD ever faced any sorceress. Remember in the game? They said the original mission for SeeD was long forgotten, and SeeD has only existed for a little over a decade. Edea was the sorceress for that long, yet they NEVER FOUGHT HER ONCE. So the theory of SeeD facing Ultimecia “over the generations” is very false since a)SeeD had not existed for one generation b)Nobody knew of Ultimecia’s existance and c)It was stated in the game that SeeD’s original purpose was lost and forgotten (thus the garden acts as mercenaries for hire instead.)

With those errors, I’m inclined to believe that this theory doesn’t stack up as good evidence…

[LunarCry]

Bah, I wrote a whole fanfic on the theory so I personally like the idea myself. I don’t have time at the second to post my evidence . . . if I get chance, I’ll come back and do just that.

[Nightblade]

Squall said he would protect Rinoa from everything.
Griever protects Ultimecia.

Coincidence?

[canis]

@Nightblade

Squall said he would protect Rinoa from everything.
Griever protects Ultimecia.

Coincidence?

24 hours ago i thought this whole theory was vain, but now…

where did griever come from anyhow?

[Evangelion]

I believe that’s a stretch, since hardly anyone would link the two together. She summoned Greiver to give substance to the plot, probably And to fuck with Squall’s mind.

[Heaven_s_Soldier]

Basically Ultimecia, took Griever straight out of Squall’s head. For she wanted to use something that would not only hurt them physically, but also mentally. And what better way to do that then to use the image of the strongest creature from the leaders own mind.

So she saw into his mind the strongest creature he knew (Griever) and created a living version to aid her. Well I think that is pretty accurate.

And the Griever/Squall protection link is pretty weak. Since Squall was not Griever, he just wished to have it’s strength of character.

[Nightblade]

Maybe Squall is dead, and Ultimecia wants to compress time because of that. Squall being dead, might not stop him from protecting Ultimecia. Remember, he said:" I don’t want to become a memory" or something like that. So, his will had the strength of griever which he wanted and continues to protect Ultimecia.

Edit: I don’t care if it sounds stupid. I hate FF8 >_>;;;

[Evangelion]

Squall said I Dont Want To Be A Memory because he was insecure. He didn’t want people talking about him in the past tense as if he were some joe schmoe. Not because of Ultimecia…it was a personal remark. He just didn’t want to be remembered as the guy who was just…there.

[Pierson]

People belittle the plot of FFVIII, saying there’s no characterisation, or real story aspects that hasn’t been done before, or that the ending and sudden appearance of Ultimecea was just laziness on Square’s part. I wonder why? Seems like, when you look at it from a thread like this, there’s a lot more discussion about the ‘deepness’ of FFVIII than all the other FF’s.

[Born_Loser]

FF8 is very deep, you just have to be willing to explore the story line. Griever’s appearance always reminded me of Ghostbusters… when Gozer chooses the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man out of Ray’s mind to be the destroyer of the world. Except, Griever was probably a little more powerful than a giant walking smore waiting to happen.

Ultimecia’s appearance wasnt sudden at all. She was there since possibly the foundation of SeeD. At least since Edea became possessed. They do what is known as “Misdirection” in the begining, and something they have done plenty before. Misdirection in a plot is the best way to keep it going, and keeping new things happening. Like with Breath of Fire… first you are fighting Zog, but noo, Zog isnt the last boss… then you are fighting Jade… nope, not him either… who’s this Tyr ?? Yet, BoF is revered as one of the best in Square history.

Now, Ultimecia was a powerful sorceress from thousands of years in the future, granted Sorceresses age slowly, there’s no way it could be Rinoa. It also said that Ultimecia’s power was based upon Odine’s research with Ellone. Rinoa was NEVER a text-book type. Here’s another reason, when Ultimecia possesed Rinoa, she didn’t have complete mastery over her. Why was this ? If they were the same, wouldnt it make sense that Ultimecia could controll her EASIER rather than HARDER ? True, Rinoa’s love was powerful, but Ultimecia was smart enough to use it as leverage.

A note to Ultimecia’s motivation. Ultimecia wasnt trying to “preserve” anything, yet trying to Conquer. She wanted to rule ALL OF TIME. To… become a godess, of a sorts. This had nothing to do with the pain of loss, that would have forced her hand had she been Rinoa. Also, when Squall appeared, why did Ultimecia try to destroy him ? Had she been Rinoa, she would have turned into tears with joy at being reunited with her long lost love(as i know i will be). Ultimecia was pure evil, not a good ounce in her body, which means she couldnt possibly be Rinoa in the future…

HAHA: any questions ?

[Mastermune]

Well I do not agree or disagree with the theory,I’m in could be or not,I just want to add a little note to what Born_Loser said about Ultimicia crying tears of joy,remember that if she was juctioned to Greiver for very long then she posibly won’t remember Squall since being junction to GF’s to long bring’s memory loss.