No. You’d remember the incident until you stopped the incident. Because if you went back in time and didn’t stop it you’d still remember it. What I said completely destroys your point. Unless you are a fan of the you lose all your memory of incidents if you travel back in time theory but you could bring something with you that has all your data written on it.
yes that might be true … but if it is it proves my thoery to. because if you keep remembering it it is because you forgot to go back and fix it because past you stoped. the process just goes in one big ring. but in the end everything is still the same as it was before.:moogle: :moogle: :moogle: :moogle: :moogle:
oh yeah raise the roof!
Originally posted by Alice
I think you only appear to slow down time because the photons reach you more slowly since you travel at a closer speed to them, so things don’t really slow down.
No matter at what speed you are, photons will always reach you at the local light speed.
I see you people are big into time travel. I think you should read GURPS Time Travel (but don’t waste your money on the book if you’re not a GURPs player, just borrow it from someone). it does not give any help in the technical part, but will get your heads full of many hipothesis concerning “time lines”, paradoxes and such.
Now, for the technical part: changing past and future is possible in theory, but there is a condition: hipothetically, it’d take the destruction of another universe to make changes to our own.
1-)If you change something in history, you will change everything that happens from then on (chaos theory).
2-) Our universe is good for a few more billions of years at worst, or it’ll never end at best (big crunch and everexpansionist hipothesises), so any change done in the period where we are today would still go on for a long, long time.
3-) Changing things requires energy.
1 + 2 + 3 = anything you do will require energy enough to change not only what you are trying to make different, but also energy enough to change the whole universe from that point on. That energy has to come from somewhere… And if it came from the universe you are changing, it would consume its own energy to an extent where it could even cease existing.
As for actually going there: there are many ways tro travel backwards in time, however all of them seem impossible to us.
My two favorite time travel methods are the wormhole and black hole (no pun intended).
Wormholes are structures that could be called ‘shortcuts’ in the spacetime thread. They are basically tunnels whose insides are not stuck to spacetime as we are. This allow for some neat effects. One of them is that may be shorter or longer on the inside than on the outside. The one concerning the thread, though, is that the exits don’t have to be necessarily in the same time. For example, one could be in 1995, the other one in 2005, and then whomever got through this wormhle would travel 10 years in time instantanously.
The exits are locked to our spacetime just the same way we are, though, so in the mental picture I exposed above, after one year, the exits of the wormhole would be in 1996 and 2006.
Time spans may be longer or shorter. In theory, there are wormholes forming themselves in great numbers in our universe, but they are all too small (microscopic), and are supposedly billions of light years away.
I said I also like the Black Hole. I came up with this idea after reading The Universe in a Nutshell. From what I understood, a black hole looks just like a normal body from outside (considering time passage only). However, under its events horizon, all times from the moment it was created to the moment it finishes “evaporating” exist simultanesouly - that is, if you fell in a black hole (and survived XD) you could see everything that fell there before you did - and the things that fell after you too!
All you have to do from that point is getting out of the black hole. There are some problems, though. One is that there is no going out - a black hole is merely a stellar body whose escape velocity is equal to the speed of the light. The other one is the question in my head: at which time would an object escaping a black hole appear in the universe?
but one question. is it not true that worm holes are nothing more than an i dea in science fiction?:moogle: :moogle: :moogle:
Originally posted by cait sith
but one question. is it not true that worm holes are nothing more than an i dea in science fiction?:moogle: :moogle: :moogle:
No. Theories say they must exist. Though none has been detected yet :too bad; …
A theory is an idea, not evidence, Ren. Cait Sith is right, it’s just an idea/theory, as are all the afore mentioned posts. That is the purpose of this topic, isn’t it? Your theories of time travel, although none of these are very original. As for my thoughts, I doubt it is possible. Firstly (and I’m pretty sure this has been mentioned already), travelling into the past could result in paradoxes and freebies- something invented in the past after being received from someone in the future; i.e, if you showed Alexander Graham Bell how the telephone works, it was never actually invented, it just came from nowhere. Secondly, if you did travel through time, the planet moves so you’d be in for a big surprise. Thirdly, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle makes it is impossible for matter to be rearranged perfectly- so if the past were changed, freakish, imperfect replicas of people would be formed, and that is a proven theory, so it can be used as evidence. This doesn’t disprove multiple timelines, or different points in space with different times. In fact, Einstein’s Theory of Relativity supports (as well as invented) the idea that time is not constant throughout the universe. I do believe that the speed of the flow of time can be changed, but I don’t really care if somewhere in the universe is the past or future, because I don’t think it is possible to get there. As for multiple timelines, I don’t believe in it neither do I care about it. There would have to be infinite number of timelines, which would require infinite amount of energy, which would require some sort of deity. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m an atheist, hence the lack of belief in this theory.
Originally posted by TubaMute
Thirdly, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle makes it is impossible for matter to be rearranged perfectly- so if the past were changed, freakish, imperfect replicas of people would be formed, and that is a proven theory, so it can be used as evidence.
Where can we find these freakish, imperfect replicas of people?
Also…infinite energy requires a deity, but mere existence does not? How did you come to this conclusion? There is a limit to the amount of energy that can exist in the absense of a deity?
and very unoriginal but maybe one way to travel through time is
TIME COMPRESSION. yes its off final fantasy 8 but it might be posible.maybe.:moogle: :moogle: :moogle:
and athies should repent. god will forgive you.:moogle:
<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> I won’t forgive atheists for not believing in me! They can all go to hell and die! >:(
Uh yeah, let’s not turn this into a religion thread now. And try actually making points instead of throwing words around, cait.
Tuba, would you mind spacing out your posts a little more for convenience sake, if you don’t mind?
Anyway, I think Ren’s point was that there are actual professional scientists, i.e. astronomers, quantum physicists, etc. who have calculated and done research regarding the possibility of wormholes.
Regarding Tuba’s second point, no one ever said that it doesn’t.
Regarding his third point (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle), we’re not talking about teleportation where one would be taken apart and be put back together in another location. I don’t quite understand what is meant by “imperfect replicas of people would be formed”, because even if the structure isn’t exactly the same they can still be close enough to similar that we would not notice.
I agree with TD that we should avoid talking about religion in this thread as much as possible, and that we try to have at least vaguely scientific ideas rather than steal ones from video games that are dependent on magic.
And he says theories can’t be used as evidence, then tries to use a theory as evidence. Make up your mind.
Actually, a theory is an idea that has been put to tests to see if they are true or not. Someone had an idea that spacetime, as a tetradimensional object, might have tunnels in every possible direction. This would involve tunnels that take people from one “time” to another one. The idea has been tested and passed. The only thing left for us to say that wormholes do exist is either finding or creating one. But untill then, you cannot prove they are not a possibility. They are just a possibility that cannot be reached by any means we know of up to this day.
Well, he’s right in the sense that there are concrete opportunities to observe the theory of relativity at work rather than just pure guesswork, which is the case of the wormhole theory.
Yes.
Time travel is possible in many different ways. First, I thought you might like to know, I started writing a story on this sort of thing. I’m going to give a little bit of insight on stuff that may seem irrelavent, but I suggest you read it. If your already an expert in time travel, skip ahead to the paragraph with the row of astriks (****) at the start of it. Anyway…here goes nothing…
First, a quick quiz! How many numbers are there between 1 and 3? If you said 2, you’re wrong! 1.5 is a number, and so is 1.4 and 1.4001…the correct answer is INFINITE! If you don’t understand how this is true, E-Mail me at ZLO11@aol.com You can continue reading, if you’d like, but if you got this question wrong and get confused later, write me, I’m make it eaiser!
You, like every other sane person, know about the first 3 (maybe even 4) dimentions: length, width, depth (and the fourth: time).
Think about the first dimension…length…a single line, with no depth, no width. You could have 10 million of these lines, and they would take up no more space than one. How many possible levels of existance are there on one line (not counting quailities, such as color, texture, etc)? The answer is: infinite.
Think of the line as one solid line. This is 1 possibility. Now imagine there was one break in the line (it’s still technically a line, there’s just 1 break in it). This is another possibility. We now have two possible existances of one line.
Buy why stop there? We could continue to break this line up into any number of pieces. We could make it one piece, or 100, or even 1,000,000. There are exactly infinite possiblities.
Not too hard to imagine. But now, lets add a second dimention: width. Now we have an infinitly huge sheet of paper that has infinite possiblities in its length (as shown above) and each segment of length has its own infinite altogether: another unending line: the width.
So, the number of possible existances of a two-dimentional universe is infiniteinfinite ( means times). Infinite*infinite=infinite^2. (For those who know NO algebra, now is when I suggest you learn some if you want to further these studies.)
Second dimention, second power of infinite…yeah, there’s a connection. The same method I used with the first and second dimentions can be applied to the third. If you don’t understand this, E-mail me at ZLO11@aol.com and I’ll explain this step, but for now, I’m going to skip it.
Now, think of our 3-dimentional universe as a frame in an old movie. You can see everything in it, but it’s still; unmoving. As you play the movie it goes from one frame to the next, connecting the still pictures to allow the picture on the screen to change (or to “move”).
Seems pretty simple, but now let’s think of the past hour of our lives as a movie, but instead of 1,000,000 frames in the hour we lived, let’s imagine we could fit another frame between each of those (making the difference between each picture smaller and smaller). We now have 2,000,000 frames.
What if we did that again? And again? And again? You get the idea: we now have another infinite: the change of 3-dimentions over time. (To aid thinking of this, remember the frames on the strip of film? Each frame was (kind of) three-dimentional, right? So that’s infinite^3, and then the shape of the strip of film was infinite^1 (assuming we kept filling in the spaces between fames infinitly). So, (infinite^3)*(infinite^1)=infinite^4. Fourth dimention=time. Now to the harder ideas…
(if you already know a lot about time travel, you MAY start reading here, but I suggest you read the rest to understand my personal views)
Now that we know about the first four dimentions, I need to quickly cover the fifth: parallel universes.
Think about it. We live on earth, simply. But do you really think that only one thing can exist in the same space at the same time? Well, it kind of can. It’s not the SAME space, because it’s another dimention. How many other dimentions are there, you ask? Well, how many can you think of? I can think of infinite, and why would there be less than infinite? There won’t be. Just like the quiz at the start of this post, depending on how small you want the differences between two universes to be, you can make any number of “different” universes. If you want infinitly small changes, then there will be infinite universes. (I won’t blame you if you give up now, but if this makes sense, hang on!)
So, guess what: there’s another copy of you, sitting in the same car you’re sitting at, reading this same post, thinking your same exact thoughts. However, there is one difference: when you binked reading the word “However”, he blinked reading the word “there”. And, of course, there’s another copy of you blinking between those two words. Of course, there are more dramatic examples than when you blinked: one of your copies was actually was born two years before you were.
I, personally, think that the fifth dimention might be made up of two smaller dimentions (parallel universes and choices…like in Matrix Reloaded (NO, that is NOT where I got this thoery from),), but that’s for another post.
Anyway, we now have raised infinite to the fifth power, right? So how can I prove the fifth dimention is real, and that I’m not just a crazy kid who’s wasting an hour typing this post? I can’t. That’s why we call it a thoery. But for those of you willing to stretch your mind, please continue.
I do think I have a shread of proof about the 5th dimention, but not enough to actually prove anything: black holes. A black hole, some physicsists (ignore my lack of spelling skills) say is a connection between two space-time continums. What, other than our universe has a space-time continum? (If you don’t know what a space-time continum is, find out the correct spelling and look it up in a good dictionary.) The answer: another universe. (If you believe in heaven and/or hell, where is it? Yup, another universe for each.)
Aww crap. Uni- means one. If I’m right (which of course I think I am, not even a crazy idiot argues something he thinks is wrong), then there are infinite universes . I’m not suggesting a name change…we’ve been calling it this for too long. What we need to do is name the group of all universes. Since uni means “one” and poly means “more than one”…how about the “polyverse”? Don’t like it? Call it something else, from here on out it’s the polyverse.
So, if we travel through a black hole, might it let us our in a different universe? Yes. Do we have any idea of which one? Hell no. So, my advice: don’t go walking through black holes. If you feel you really need to, call a help-line, seriously, just don’t.
Now, HOW to travel back in time! (Thought I’d never get here, would I?) There are a few questions I would like to raise:[ul]
[li]If we can travel freely through 3 dimentions, why not four?
[/li][li]What power do we need to travel at the speed of light?
[/li][li]Has anyone done it?
[/li][/ul]
The answers are:[ul]
[li]We can.
[/li][li]Infinite or none, depending on the method.
[/li][li]Only they would know.
[/li][/ul]
Now I need to explain my answers…the first question will be explained in answering the other two, so I will skip it for now.
The second question is tricky…there are two methods of time travel, one has many sub-catagories, which are the thoeries most scientists argue, and the other has no sub-catagories as far as I know of.
The one with sub-catagories is: with the use of advanced technology.
We’re either going to have to wait (who knows how long, maybe 1000 years, maybe 2, depends on a number of things I cannot foresee…if you don’t think 2 is possible, imagine someone from the future brings the technology back, then tomorrow is suddenly very possible) until technology can either explore the “contents” of a black hole (which is actually another universe) and go back into another universe which is just a delayed version of our own (hopefully with the ability to send back information)
or use massive energy (probably taken from the strings in the string theory, if proven to be true) to speed us up beyond the speed of light. As we approach the speed of light, we will see things slowing down. Once we’re going as fast as the speed of light, we will continually be looking at that SINGLE FROZEN FRAME from the film reel I talked about a while back. Once we pass the speed of light, we will start watching time go backwards, however, if you tried looking at your hands while going faster than the speed of light, you wouldn’t: you’d have left the image of your hands behind you. Also, if you tried this method, then when you returned around and went light speed forwards, that image that was going in reverse would slow down, pause (when you slowed to the speed of light) then speed up into hyper-fast-forward mode. Of course, in this theory, everything is relative. (That’s why the theory it’s based off of is called the theory of relativity.) For example, the image of earth might have been going backwards as you looked at it (if you could even really see it once you were that far away), but whatever you were aiming at would be played in fast forward. NOTE: It’s really hard to explain this in just words, without pictures or movies (if I had movies, it would be MUCH easier).
Of course, other people have other theories, but these are the two theories I think stand out.
Now, the theory that doesn’t have sub-catagories: evalution. While the paragraph two up was probably the most confusing of any that you’ll ever read in this post, this may be the most difficult to agree with. What if someone were born, who was spiritual enough, wise enough and powerful enough to travel into any dimention they wanted? (I know this doesn’t seem like the study of physics, and it’s not entirely, but no one said time travel had to be limited to physics.)
If this person (or even group of people) could create folds in dimentions, they could go back in time (fold the fourth dimention), or cross our universe in one step (fold the third dimention) or even find another copy of him who has six fingers (fold fifth dimention). I don’t know how they would do it, but if they had the ability to, they could. I think time may bring us the knowledge to travel through time in more ways than one steady direction. But this, like everything else on this matter, is theory.
Of course, once time travel happens what are the outcomes? Well, some scientists suggest, another dimention could be created…oh wait, we already have that covered. Maybe it would be fated to not happen?
Now comes the talk about the dimentions.
Each dimention has another infinite possiblities off of each frame in time, right? (Hence the fifth dimention.) Well, each possiblity is SET the way it is. If it could change it would not be 1 route that could be taken, it would be many possible different routes taken. So, if you follow this one path (say you’re going to kill your former self) then you may kill your former self, but only routes that lead to the death of your former self result if you killing your former self (I know, that sentance is so logical that I shouldn’t even have needed to state it, but it’s still VERY confusing and the entire topic needs a lot of thought). Those paths, whether taken by the version of you that you know yourself as or not, exist. They are there whether you travel them or not. And since there are so many possiblities of you doing so many possible things, all those things ARE happening. At this very instant YOU ARE KILLING YOUR FORMER SELF! But it’s not the former you that you know. Every instant in time you do it again, and yet in another dimention the former you defended yourself. There are so many possiblities that the endless array cancles out any possible paradox you could make by travelling through ANY set of dimentions.
Every action has a reaction, but every possible action has already been written. You still get to choose which path you take, but only this version of you.
This just about sums up what I call The Basics of the Polyverse . If you talk to me further, or even just think about it more, you will shortly see how it applies to EVERYTHING in life.
Now, to add the last twist, even though it is not about the time travel…
What is the “Zeroth” Dimention?
While I won’t explain it now, the Zeroth Dimention is what is known as “The Force” in Star Wars and as “God” in most churches.
You may think I’m insane. But I can explain it all.
Take care, and let me know what you think after sleeping on this.
- Bing
“Michael Y”
:boring:zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzhmph wha i wasent sleeping honest I just… went uncantios on the z button honest i sweazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :boring:
I find your theory inherently flawed because I do not consider time a dimension. A dimension is a measure of an object’s property, while time is an order of that object (or objects) (two cubes are 4 mm and 5 mm long each, respectively, but one goes before another).
Your examples about the lines and squares also seem a little dubious… in order for those examples to stand you would have to recognize that a line has no width or depth but only length, rendering both those properties to 0 and the line itself non-existing. Same with the square.
I also don’t think we can ever travel at the speed of light… approach it, maybe, but short of constructing some kind of particle that is like the photon but with either less mass or more energy, I don’t see how, even if this were possible, one could construct an entire shuttle out of these particles and still have people aboard, or use it as a power source and generate enough energy to make an extremely heavy shuttle surpass the speed of light.
cait sith: if you don’t have anything constructive to add, please don’t post.
Clearly people who cannot comprehend a line cannot comprehend time travel. If you don’t realize that 1+2=3 you can’t do calculus.
The point, in case I didn’t make it clear everywhere, was that you need to be able to extend your mind beyond this universe.
As for the line and square not existing, you’re arguing calculus. The definite inegral of any function is based off an infinite sum of infinitly thin lines.
That’s the only sense of a line or square I ever referred to. If you don’t know calculus, then my point won’t be as clear.
As for cait, I know it’s a confusing post, but it’s also a confusing topic. Just got to use your head. 
Interesting. My problem with your theory is that nothing with mass can reach the speed of light because to do so would require an infinite amount of energy.
Cait Sith, I’m liking you less and less. This isn’t the “bad humor” forum, you know. If you’re going to say something, contribute.
Originally posted by Bing
[b]Clearly people who cannot comprehend a line cannot comprehend time travel. If you don’t realize that 1+2=3 you can’t do calculus.The point, in case I didn’t make it clear everywhere, was that you need to be able to extend your mind beyond this universe.
As for the line and square not existing, you’re arguing calculus. The definite inegral of any function is based off an infinite sum of infinitly thin lines.
That’s the only sense of a line or square I ever referred to. If you don’t know calculus, then my point won’t be as clear.
[/b]
That’s why calculus is done on paper… no such infinitely thin lines would exist in real life. I got the impression that you’re asking us to picture an infinitely thin line in three-dimensional space and using that as a basis for your arguments. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry for misunderstanding.
As for extending your mind “beyond this universe”… I don’t quite understand what you mean. It is quite impossible for a three-dimensional person to fully imagine an object existing in a fourth dimension. Just for the sake of an example, a two-dimensional person would ever see a sphere moving around as a circle spontaneously changing its size, and not as a sphere.
Empty space is empty.
Specks of dust or whatever would not amount to enough to stop a piece of metal flying through space at the speed of light. After all, the dust isn’t even enough to stop light itself.
I, personally, think the light barrier method of time travel is the most “faked” version. (After all, you’re not changing time, jsut changing your perception of it.)
I gave about half of my theory there, then I ran out of time before I had to leave my college to head back to my house. Maybe I’ll add to it later, otherwise I’ll just fill in the gaps as people point out things they think don’t make sense.
I don’t think anyone refuted that specks of dust would hamper your theory… but small particles of matter at high relative velocities to another can be quite damaging. It’s rumoured that the spaceship Columbia exploded simply because an extremely small fragment of the control tower broke off and clipped the side of the spaceship during takeoff. Now imagine ever greater speeds…