You complain that the name Batman is silly. Here in Sweden we had for the longest time the bad habit of translating many character names like that. For the longest time Batman was called “Läderlappen” here. Which means “Leather Piece of Cloth”, although “lapp” kan also mean a paper note. Or a racial slur for an indigenous people living in the northern area of the Nordic countries.
Either way, “Batman” is a much, much better name. It could be sooo much worse XD
Rinn: I’m going to have to side with Hades on this one, oddly enough. I, like most people, judge things before I actually see them. There are plenty of things that I’ve heard are great- but I know that I wouldn’t enjoy them. Since we’re talking about movies, let’s say When Harry Met Sally. I’ve been told by several people that I know that it’s a great movie, but I don’t think I’ll like it, and would rather not watch it, because I don’t generally enjoy romantic comedies. I don’t need to see Norbit to know it’s a horrible movie, and that I should not watch it in any circumstance.
With a movie like The Dark Knight, Hades has certainly already heard enough about it to make a preliminary judgement as to whether or not he would like it. It seems that at this point he’s somewhat ambivilent, and he asked our advice to see what our opinions are. I don’t see anything wrong with that. It’s not as if he made a thread about how much the Dark Knight sucked and he hadn’t seen it, or something like that. I’d give him a bit more credit, man.
But you’re basing the track record of a romantic comedy on other romantic comedies. Hades is comparing this movie, as you said, to the older goofy version of Batman. Since he’s never experience any of the newer media because of that preconceived notion his opinion isn’t going to change, which in turn will keep him from ever experiencing the newer media. Batman used to be goofy therefore Batman is always goofy, so he has no reason to watch this movie because it’s goofy. You’re comparing apples to oranges.
I’m not just comparing Batman to old Batman. I’m looking at the whole crime thriller genre and wondering how much it’ll be spoiled for me by throwing a traditionally goofy character like Batman into it. It’s not that I don’t like goofy movies. I just don’t like when I can’t get into a serious movie because one goofy character is destroying my immersion. That’s why I’m asking about how well done it actually is.
You say my opinion isn’t going to change… but I’m not sure which opinion you’re talking about, because I haven’t stated one. I’ve just been asking questions. From a very pessimistic angle, yes, but that doesn’t mean I’ve resigned the movie to the shit list.
That’s the thing though, there was a shift in the atmosphere of the Batman character away from the goofy antics of Adam West. Even the batman cartoons in the 90s were drastically different then what you’re thinking of. You’re saying the goofy character of batman would spoil the crime thriller genre, but in fact Batman hasn’t been a goofy character for ages. I’d wager that when a majority of people think about Batman they don’t think goofy, they think more dark and brooding.
I think he’s arguing that no matter how serious the character has become, he will still see him as goofy because he’s a guy in a bat suit. If that’s so, I’d suggest he avoid the superhero genre. 
Well, to be fair, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin had a fairly camp Batman. The rest of the characters were definitely goofy, but it rubbed off quite a bit on Bats.
The Christian Bale Batman, though, is not goofy.
GAP, I already said, I don’t mind goofy stuff I loved Iron Man, but that’s because it knew it was goofy. Like you said, my worry is that a guy in a bat suit might not make a very good protagonist for the movie The Dark Knight is trying to be.
I’ve already decided I am going to watch it though, so I’ll find out soon enough.
Hades, think of it this way:
The Dark Knight’s not a pure crime thriller. There will of course be some superhero elements in it. However, the new Batmans attempt to be a display of “what if Batman existed in the real world.” There will be some fantastical elements. Yeah, it’s a guy in a bat suit. There’s also a guy dressed up like a reject from Insane Clown Posse. However, it’s still a good melding of superheroes with the real world.
Are there any superhero movies you like? If the superhero genre just seems too corny for you, then, The Dark Knight probably won’t change your mind. Unless you just haven’t seen any recent, good superhero movies.
Watch Batman Begins first. It isn’t as good, but it focused on making Batman believable.
I rationalize Bruce dressing like a bat by thinking:
There is one thing that really stopped me from enjoying this movie outright. If I had simply gone into this movie expecting great action and entertainment, I would have been 100% satisfied. However, everyone was talking about how this movie “transcended” other comic book films, achieving a kind of literary stature. And from the opening moments of the movie, I couldn’t shake the feeling something was wrong.
The Joker is supposed to be an agent of “chaos,” and yet it seemed like all of his schemes felt more like the work of an obsessive-compulsive planner that wouldn’t leave his house until he had every minute of his schedule accounted for in his daily planner. I’ll try not to give the plot away and just focus on the opening sequence in the bank. This is an undeniably fun scene that pretty much leaves you guessing up until the last minute. But how does this character, who we’re supposed to believe is an element of chaos plan the heist down to the exact moment that he can pull the bus away and join right in the middle of a group of other buses without anybody noticing? Why is there not a crowd of people around the scene? A bus just plowed into a bank and nobody notices? The police show up at the moment the Joker pulls out into the crowd…yet the bus driver behind him or even the police don’t notice that there is a bus with pieces of glass, wood, and dust flying all over the place pulling away from the scene?
Okay, granted, I’m overthinking the movie…I guess it’s a function of the hype surrounding it. Certainly other movies have gotten away with more egregious violations of impossibility. But when pretty much the entire movie focuses on The Joker and his ability to impose chaos around him…well, it seems to me the Joker is more just a lucky OCD patient with a curious knack for good timing.
As has already been said, watch Batman Begins. It will silence all of your complaints about Batman in general. Every piece of gear is explained and it shows why. Hell, it even shows him in just a dark outfit (an almost complete Batsuit, but without the bat stuff) and shows how some aspects are used and why they are needed. It pretty much brings Batman down to a somewhat realistic level. Also, it explains that the whole bat part was to intimidate his foes, like they scared him, and to become a symbol to the people. The anonymity was more than just protecting him, it was about becoming a symbol to the people and giving the hope and something to believe in since things had gotten so bad. In The Dark Knight, it continues this and it shows Batman settling into his role in society. It is also just a well done movie that does sort of take a look at what the world would be like if there was a real Batman. Just see it.
As for what Zepp said, god points. I always just thought of the Joker as insane, but brilliantly insane.
The movie isn’t trying to be something it isn’t… which is a lot of things. It does a good job at being a movie in general, and most importantly it is a more than excellent superhero film. What else would one expect from a film about Batman? It’s popular culture. Of course it’s going to be sort of silly or cliche/cheesy at times. The important part is that this film doesn’t try to hide anything and goes all out (mostly) in terms of action, plot, and overall ridiculousness of comic book characters. And by ridiculousness, I don’t mean goofy and slapstick, I mean over the top.
And there’s nothing wrong with Adam West. The guy is a legend.
Hades, have you read Kafka? The Metamorphosis is about a bug for pete’s sake but I don’t see anyone decrying it as silly. See if you like the execution, not just the idea.
Yes, the Joker’s speeches about “chaos” make little sense. He’s great to watch purely for the performance, but one really shouldn’t bother to analyze anything he (or anyone else in the movie) says.
I agree with Hades in that I thought Batman was the least interesting part of the movie. However, I think it’s still worth watching, purely for Heath Ledger’s intense Marlon Brando imitation. His appearance is also much more “believable” than that of the guy in the bat suit, although as Zeppy said, the obsessive-compulsive planning is a stretch. Sometimes the performance itself can be highly memorable, even if the things being performed turn out to be somewhat incoherent in retrospect.
Yeah, I’ll agree that Christian Bale isn’t exactly my favorite part of the movie. That’s a shame, because I love him in most everything else (Equilibrium, American Psycho, et cetera). I think it’s because The Dark Knight it’s more about how people react to Batman, rather than how Batman acts.
I thought he’s the best Batman yet, though. He does an excellent job of being both the playboy Bruce Wayne and the truly scary superhero (partly because he totally changes his voice when he changes roles). Definitely better than Michael Keaton or Val Kilmer… Bale can really pull of the serious part of it.
You say he’s imitating Marlon Brando. Might I ask which roles you’re thinking of? I regrettably have not seen many Brando films, so I associate him solely with The Godfather, A Streetcar Named Desire, and On the Waterfront. Not that those are bad roles to associate him with.
I wasn’t thinking of any specific role, but rather, of Brando’s general slouching, mumbling style, the way he kept smacking his lips in mid-sentence. Brando usually played more “modern,” down-to-earth types, but occasionally he combined that image with epic villainy, like in Apocalypse Now. I thought Heath Ledger took a few cues from that – which is not a bad thing, Brando is one of the all-time best actors in my opinion.
By the way, if you want to watch more Brando, I recommend Last Tango In Paris, as well as an obscure film called “Burn!” by Gillo Pontecorvo (more famous for The Battle of Algiers, if you are familiar). In the latter, Brando plays a decadent British colonialist type, like a more realistic version of Lawrence of Arabia.
I don’t know if that’s Christian Bale’s fault, or if Batman just isn’t a very interesting character to begin with. Christian Bale is fine as Bruce Wayne, I think that Batman is just a one-note performance. I mean, there’s not much room for acting in the bat suit aside from coming up with new ways to punch people in the face.
Somethig that really bugged me about the movie is that, for some reason, the sound of the dialogue seemed noticeably lower than usual, so I had to strain to hear what people were saying.