Xwing: I don’t lament taking my major. My problem was a combination of things which are most definately my fault, not my major. In fact, I know several other people that had the same major as me, and they’re all employed or in graduate school right now. I guess I could tell him all of my mistakes, but I mentioned many of them already. Of course, that’s only if anybody is interested.
I don’t mean to hijack the thread or anything like that, but since this is about college; I got a 1570 more or less on my SAT. Seeing as how I worked the night before and didn’t bring a graphing calculator (honestly, I’m almost hopeless at math anyway) I expected worse. So, yeah, I scored like a 320 on the math section, in the hopes that the writing and english sections would make up for it.
What my question is comes down to whether or not I should take it again. I’m at a community college, aiming to make high enough grades to get a scholarship which shouldn’t be too hard since my instructers are pretty good. Due to my AP credits, I’ve only got to attend a year and a half to get an associates, but would good grades there be enough to attend a university or would they just look at my SAT scores and forget about me?
Unless you’re majoring in a natural science, math, or foreign language, all other college programs hold about the same job prospects.
This is an ignorant statement, it’s completely wrong, and is quite possibly the worst advice I have ever seen given about post high school education. Unbelievable.
According to this guy, majoring in Music Appreciation will get you the same job prospects as an education in Business Finance or Accounting. Right - what part of the world do you live in? Not America.
My head still hurts after reading that statement.
Also, racist SAT scores? I thought those issues were taken care of a long time ago. The whole “lower class doesn’t know what a saucer is” thing has been considered when rewriting the tests. What does the bias inherent in SAT testing have to do with the topic anyways?
To the OP: if you don’t know what you want to do, I’d recommend going to a community college. Cheap and relatively easy. You can work towards a humanities / liberal arts degree and see what classes you like and go from there. Your goal is employability, so keep that in mind. If you take Curtis’s advice and study a natural science such as Astronomy, you’re still going to be working at WalMart because nobody hires astronomers.
Try to find a job somewhere other than WalMart. Like a Kinkos, where you could put your computer skills to work.
I would recommend finding some books and websites to help you along. Also, there’s a lot of misinformation in this thread, which is probably coming from people who don’t have degrees yet. Keep that in mind.
Edit: I haven’t read all the posts yet, but Sinistral’s advice is excellent.
Each school has different SAT requirements - find out the average SAT scores for the universities you are interested in transferring to. If you’re well below average, then you probably should plan on retaking them. If possible, talk to an adviser at the schools you are interested in transferring to and see what they think. They might even tell you what classes will transfer and what won’t, which can save you time and money (I had to retake a few classes that wouldn’t transfer).
Thanks, luckily the community college I’m attending has a partnership with many of the universities around here so I don’t have to worry too much about transfer snafus.
I know, seriously. What are those business, finance, or accounting people thinking taking their dead-end education! Gosh!
Lets all just be honest with ourselves now: It doesn’t matter what you major in or what your grades are, it is who you are connected with and how rich your parents are that really counts. More so the former than the latter I’d like to imagine, but enough money can buy you anything.
Cro, just do what you enjoy and know that even then you’re going to take classes you loath.
:kissy:
This is an ignorant statement, it’s completely wrong, and is quite possibly the worst advice I have ever seen given about post high school education. Unbelievable.
According to this guy, majoring in Music Appreciation will get you the same job prospects as an education in Business Finance or Accounting. Right - what part of the world do you live in? Not America.
My head still hurts after reading that statement.
Guess what? The vast majority of college students in the U.S. are going to get jobs which requires knowledge unrelated to anything they learn in college.
A ‘specialized’ job does not, by any means, guarantee greater money. Like I’ve said before, education as a major is regarded as a joke. Teachers make little money. So you’re saying someone should major in education when they could get comparable grades in a better major and thus a better job?
Business is also regarded lowly. Try taking business classes in college; see what your fellow business majors are like, if you don’t believe me.(No offense to anyone who majored in the things I’ve listed).
Accounting is a tough major, granted, but it will get you a good job more because its a tough major than because it teaches specialized knowledge.
I left out music and art. Sue me.
But the statement is accurate for all others. 90% of jobs people get out of college don’t expect college to give you any info on what the job is like. 90% of jobs require on the job training totally removed from anything you would learn in college(save writing ability). There are 10% exceptions, but you seem to have clung to that 10% to point me out as an idiot.
What businesses really look for in college transcripts is if you’re a hard worker, if you’re focused, and if you can handle responsibility. Which good grades indicate.
Good grades = good job. Period.
You know, Sinistral said in his last post you need to know what job you want going into college to be financially successful and pay off your student debts. I agree with this. But the thing is, most of the jobs people want don’t require any specific major at all. All they require is that you show your employers you’re focused and responsible by efficiently getting your degree, and getting good grades. The vast majority of jobs, and the vast majority of good jobs, don’t require any specialized degree.
Sure, there are great jobs like doctors and researchers for pharmaceutical companies and computer technicians that pay great money. But you guys are acting like they’re the only good jobs in the world. They’re not.
Curtis makes a good point in his argument about the kinds of jobs that are available and the skills they require. My argument works best if you’re going into something like a science, where your education has a direct impact on your understanding of WTF is going on with what you’re doing and how you can move further with that.
The kinds of jobs that Curtis is referring to are jobs like when you work in some kind of corporate bee hive and you sit at a computer all day doing data entry or stuff like that. You do menial tasks continuously. In that situation, your major doesn’t matter that much and neither do your grades much. NEVERTHELESS, getting a major in music is NOT going to help you. You’re going to want a major in a field that is at least somewhat related to help your hireability. Like if you work in IT, you wanna get a background in computers even if your job makes little use of the vast majority of classes you ended up wasting your time on. This is why so many people end up in very broad majors, like economics. When you’re in econ or something the likes of, then you have a fairly non specific and useless major that you can tag on your cv to go work in a corporate beehive, irregardless of what that company does.
As Locke said, there are majors to avoid because they will not help you at all when it comes to getting any job. For the situations that Curtis mentioned, your education comes in useful not because of the content of your education but because of the SKILLS you developed during your education. Ultimately, the point is the same I made: don’t take a bs fluffy major.
Finally as useless Eden’s post is in this conversation, there is 1 slice of truth: making connections is important. Life is about knowing how to network and work politics in your favor. Very useful skill.
listen Cro, I’m sure at this point you’re not thinking too far into the future … so for right now just pick a major that 1) You can do well in 2) You somewhat enjoy 3) Isn’t completely stupid-sounding; work hard, and you’ll be ok. For financial aid, ask your school for advice first and work from what they give you.
QFT
How did you get 1570 if you got 320 on math?
Sure, “a vast majority of students will get jobs unrelated to their education”. How many of them major in non-tangible fields such as music, philosophy or art? How many students don’t graduate? How many do poorly and aren’t qualified to land a job in their field? How many graduate without ever working through the school’s placement office? How many graduate and take the first job they can find without making a real effort? How many lose interest in their field of study but choose to graduate on time instead of changing majors? How many students already have a career but are studying another field because they enjoy it or preparing for a future career change?
There are a lot of reasons why the above statement is true. But that statement is not a logical premise for your blanket conclusion that all majors offer the same prospects the same except natural science, math or language. Not even close. You’re so wrong I don’t even know how to emphasize it.
A ‘specialized’ job does not, by any means, guarantee greater money. There are no guarantees. But if a firm has a specialized entry level job, I think it’s safe to say the above average ‘specialized’ graduate has a better chance than an above average student who is not. Look at IT job openings: they look for CS and IT majors. Look at marketing jobs - they hire marketing majors. Look at finance jobs - they hire finance majors.
Like I’ve said before, education as a major is regarded as a joke. Teachers make little money. Wrong! Things are rough for teachers at first, but after they get their masters and tenure, they are in excellent shape. And they get summers off! You can have an awesome career as a teacher if you make it through those first few years. At least in NY and PA you can. Sure, your education coursework is considered a joke compared to physics…but that means nothing when you hit the workforce.
So you’re saying someone should major in education when they could get comparable grades in a better major and thus a better job? I’m unfamiliar with requirements so I might be talking out of my ass. My guess would be major in education if you want to teach elementary school or junior high - double major in a specialized field to strut your stuff if you have it. But don’t blow off your education classes and major in Molecular Biology because it’s “harder” if you want to teach 2nd grade. I don’t see how that would help.
If you want to teach at the high school or college level (higher education), you’re probably better off specializing. Math teachers need math degrees, etc. I know people in education at all levels and they have done well. And I know people in the corporate world who would love to go back into education.
Business is also regarded lowly. Try taking business classes in college; see what your fellow business majors are like, if you don’t believe me. I earned my BS in Business Administration with a concentration in IS and minors in Computer Science and Mathematics. I also studied Chemistry for three years before I switched. Yeah, the business classes are a joke as far as difficulty goes. But guess what? The practical concepts I learned in my business classes are more valuable to my employer and my career than all the Calculus, programming and science that I learned. I used to turn my nose up at business majors too. But that top 25% probably went on to make more money than I would have as a top 25% chemistry major.
If you still think business is a joke, take a look at MBA starting salaries. Nuff said. Not doctor / lawyer levels by any means, but not bad.
Accounting is a tough major, granted, but it will get you a good job more because its a tough major than because it teaches specialized knowledge.
You’re probably not going to earn a CPA without an accounting degree. Your job prospects as an accountant increase dramatically with a CPA. It has nothing to do with how “difficult” the course material is. It has everything to do with how “valuable” the knowledge / job function is to employers. All firms need accountants to handle their finances, hence the demand. Accounting isn’t hard compared to math and science; it’s tedious and boring to most people. They have good career opportunities because they are critical to a firm’s success; a bad accountant can almost singlehandedly ruin a company. Hence the long (not difficult) road to certification, which brings accountability to the position.
90% of jobs people get out of college don’t expect college to give you any info on what the job is like…you seem to have clung to that 10% to point me out as an idiot… What businesses really look for in college transcripts is if you’re a hard worker, if you’re focused, and if you can handle responsibility. Which good grades indicate. Good grades = good job. Period.
The job market is rather specialized, last I checked. All things being equal: if you’re a finance major, you’re going to get the finance job over a geology major - period. If you’re a marketing major, you’re going to get the marketing job over the media study major - period. If you’re a nursing major, you’re going to get the nursing job over the pathology major - period. If you’re a pharmacy major, you’re going to get the pharmacist job over the social welfare major - period. If you’re an IT major, you’re going to get the programmer analyst job over a women’s studies major - period.
My problem with your statement is there are a lot of useless, unpractical bullshit majors, including in the language, math and natural science fields that you mentioned. And like I said, the job market is specialized. I was fed the same line of bullshit, and from my experiences, it’s just not true. Look at the openings on monster.com, and what you say just plain isn’t true.
I think the schools might spread such misinformation to balance out their degree spread? “We have 367 different degrees!” Some companies (like Siemens) have programs that’ll hire exceptional recent graduates from any major into “training” where you’re put on a team and eventually find a home in the company. But unless you’re an exceptional individual (academically, socially), you’re not getting into something like that. It’s the exception, not the rule.
What you choose to major in isn’t the be-all end-all to your career opportunities. But in a specialized job market, it certainly helps (a lot) if you have a college education in the field you want to work in. I switched majors three times, and am finishing up grad school in a 4th area. But I’d have never landed a job in my IT department if I didn’t have my Business / IT / CS education along the way. Had I taken your advice and studied philosophy because I enjoy it, somehow I don’t think I’d be in the financial position I’m currently in with the employment security I have.
Thanks for the help, everyone. I didn’t expect this thread to get so long though. Heh. Anyway, I’m going to try and get all the FAFSA stuff done and find some ways to get more money and try to decide what college I really wanna go to.
Most of you keep telling me to get into something that I’ll greatly profit from, and while I like the idea of making shit tons of money, I’m much more interested in getting into something I can enjoy as well. I really like languages, and its fun to communicate with others in a different language, so I think I’ll try to major in Spanish and learn some other languages. Merl’s advice was sound and he’s quite right - I’m not looking a hundred moves ahead right now.
One question for you though, Merl, since you never did respond to my PMs. I’m somewhat interested in the idea of law school. Care to tell me about your experiences?
If you actually go with that, let me know. I’m basically doing the inverse in my university, so it’d be nice to compare notes. Besides, you might end up getting ass-deep into shit like functional and generative grammar, in which case, believe me, you’ll want advice from someone who’s gone through that before.
Tell me that you want the kind of things
money just can buy
I don’t care too much for money,
money can’t buy me love.
Taking advantage of the lull.
Much of what you say is true, Locke. But I still think(and this is certainly just my opinion) that you should major in whatever you’re good at and interests you. At the beginning of this thread, people jumped on Cro telling him he would never get a good job if he only takes courses he’s interested in.
But there are still some things I don’t agree on. Like, liberal arts degrees only get jobs doing data-entry. Those are the people who don’t do well who get those jobs… Most people who do well with a liberal arts degree seem to get managerial positions.
Also, you’re right, teaching can be a good job. But you don’t need an education undergrad degree to be a teacher; and it might hurt because education is a very easy degree compared to say history or humanities etc. I think you may just even have to take a test(the Praxis) and have any undergrad degree to be certified as a teacher. Even if you have to go to grad school, the only grad schools where you have to major in the same thing as an undergrad are science, math, music/art, etc.
We all jumped on Cro and our concensus should be alarming, considering the diversity of experience we collectively have. The point should be clear: don’t take BSey fluff. Make sure what you can justify what you have. This is not a complicated concept. Doing something just because it sounds interesting is fine and dandy when you’re not burying yourself in debt in the process. One can take classes one likes while also moving forward towards an objective, whatever that objective may be.
One other thing that could help as far as money goes is actually major/department selection. From what I’ve known, seen, and heard, some departments that are less well-known/more specialized will use money as a recruiting tool to get students to study that particular field. I’ve personally known several people who played their cards right and double majored in the specialized field as well as in a more well-known field where there was a lot of requirement overlap while having their college educations 100% covered. A lot of those did happen to be natural science/engineering students, though…
Just thought I’d throw that out as a possibility to explore. Good luck, man. 
(Oh, and if you do choose to take community college courses and you have at least some idea of which four-year school you’d like to attend, try to find out from the four-year which classes transfer into which credits to save yourself some work later with meeting your requirements.)