So this Gamergate stuff...

The Core RPGC Main Forum
#112

And you say I’m missing the forest for the trees.

“Paranoid delusions of these so-called gamers themselves”? What the fuck are you even going on about? Where the hell did you even reach this topic? What “paranoid delusions” are you talking about here that affect the AAA industry? You’re taking the reality of the mid-sized industry getting fucked sidewides by corrupt journalists and claiming that we should ignore it because fighting that somehow helps the AAA?

So what is your fucking suggestion? Go back to barking ineffectually at the giant developers? You want to try an Internet petition? Who’s going to do what? Certainly not the gaming press. Arthur Gies was first in line to defend the bullshit EA tried to pull with Sim City, whereas anybody with even a cursory understanding of computer processing knew that is was utter horeshit from day one. It was textbook Emperor’s New Clothes level of transparent lies, except that in this case every peasant was calling them out on it, while the press predictably made asses of themselves trying to protect them. You want the guys who take a $700.000 donation from Microsoft to stand up against them? The same sort that keep calling for Nintendo’s death because they don’t play ball and don’t shove microtransactions down your fucking throat? The ones that call their audience entitle whiners when they vote with their wallets and don’t buy DmC by the millions?

Who the fuck do you think you’re talking about here? Who do you think fuels the microtransactions and crappy shooter market? RPG players? Fuck no, it’s the casual market and fucking Dudebro. Dudebro doesn’t get involved in discussions about journalistic ethics or even knows the name of developers or their politics. Dudebro isn’t paranoid about fuck all because he doesn’t even read this shit, he just buys the latest crappy Fifa title and Call of Battlefield Shooty Edition. Why the everloving fuck do you think ever last big company under the fucking sun has tried to “streamline” their games to be more palatable to the CoD audience? It’s because that’s where the big money is. That’s not going to fucking change, because the whole reason they’re such a juicy demographic is that they’re also the kind that gladly slurp up the micotransaction bullshit and pay no attention to what money-grubbing whores the companies they support are. You’re not going to get a company to stop doing shady shit when you’re not even their actual audience. Dudebro and Candy Crush Mom will continue fuelling that festering husk until the already straining bubble pops. There is fuck all anybody can do about that, chiefly because the hardcore gamer is no longer the target audience.

But there is, in fact, an alternative to the AAA industry. The only way, which plenty of developers saw and took. Plenty of smaller and middle-sized studios have splintered off the bubbling giants in recent years to make the sort of games that AAA won’t focus on, and for now they seem to be thriving. Long-dead genres are suddenly coming back to life and I’m loving that shit, as are millions of others. This is it: the promise of a renaissance where companies make good games and get reasonable profits in return, led by the people that built up gaming to begin with. Fucking Lord British is even making a new (pseudo-)Ultima game. The main weakness of these studios is their lack of advertisement budget, which makes honest reporting, the kind that doesn’t cherrypick facebook activity to accuse individual games of hate crimes to try and kill a game they don’t like or actively blacklist developers they don’t agree with like Kevin Dent. This is the answer to the problem you posed, and its getting devoured alive by sensationalist shitty press.

The problem is not that your Moldovian hermaphrodites exist, it’s that they’ve got a nice little douchebag clique going right across the gaming press. Nobody would give a fuck if these were isolated nobodies, but they are most definitely not. Polygon is not s small niche website. Kotaku is the fourth (and close to third) most popular fucking gaming website in the world, and their Editor In chief was recently shown to completely ignore video game press releases from indies in favour of entirely (fake) letters about (fake) women learning to drive. Patrick Keplek of Giant Bomb is one of the people involved in and the primary instigator of the blacklisting of developers mentioned above. Their combined whining and moaning about Hatred led to it being pulled from Steam despite overwhelming popular support, and it was only saved because enough people raised a stink about it that it got put back. That was a fledgling studio’s first project that almost got killed despite popular support by being denied entrance to a distribution platform with over 70% of the market share, all because of the exact same of moralistic whining about violence we grew up scoffing at. It’s the exact same bullshit we’ve seen for the last three decades, except that now the ones doing it are the gaming media themselves instead of pearl-clutching church ladies.

By all means continue echoing Leigh Alexander’s bullshit vitriol about core gamers being the problem while she praises the fucking Kim Kardashian microtransaction whore game and you blast a completely different demographic that has nothing to do with any of the parties mentioned here. By all means, continue complaining ineffectually about the gaming giants that absolutely nobody is going to touch because it’s an utterly futile endeavour. But when you turn around and tell me that you don’t care that the one alternative to that hopeless corporate clusterfuck is getting blacklisted, slandered, harassed and overall chewed apart by corrupt pretentious dickbags, I have to ask what exactly are you proposing. The idea of getting EA to stop being dicks after decades of it working fabulously for them is a childish fantasy, especially as the hardcore enthusiast gamer isn’t even their primary customer base anymore, and you just told me you don’t care about how developers trying to do things differently are getting rammed in the ass by the press, so what are you suggesting people should focus on?

#113

Don’t watch anime, [STRIKE]argue[/STRIKE] bitch about game journalism.

#114

Seph is going to owe a fortune to the swear jar.

#115

Look at all these fucking words you wrote about gamergate

#116

Word Occurrences Frequency Rank
you 21 1
fucking 8 2
even 8 2
don 7 3
what 7 3
fuck 7 3
developers 6 4
going 6 4
gaming 6 4
press 6 4

I think he’s angry. Very angry about the video games. It’s too hard to stop buying EA games, so it’s easier to blame feminists or something, I don’t know. That table above is oddly beautiful though…reading down the words it almost feels like a sentence that he would actually write.

Actually I haven’t read beyond like the second paragraph of any of his responses in this entire thread. I have no idea who any of these people are he mentions, nor do I care. I’m just…fascinated that he cares so much. Like throwing a bunch of obscure examples about…stuff…is supposed to prove something to me? I dunno, I still have absolutely no idea what he’s trying to argue. Nor do I understand what he’s so angry about. Can someone who’s willing to read that freaking wall of text translate it to someone like me so I can comprehend what’s going on here?

#117

Actually this thread is making me think watching anime would be a better use of my time than this shit. Or has the feminazi cabal made watching anime punishable by 50 lashings of the tongue on tumblr?

#118

That table above is oddly beautiful though…reading down the words it almost feels like a sentence that he would actually write.

Just read it with pauses in-between each word, while getting more exasperated.

“You fucking…even, don’t…What, fuck…Developers…GOING…GAMING…PRESS!!!”

#119

Hey Charlemagne, I’ll give you a butttcoin if you record yourself saying this and upload it.

#120

I’ve tried to read them a few times but my eyes just slide right off them like I’m in a Lovecraft story trying to read a book of evil spells.

#121

Let me get this straight: you are perfectly willing to preach at me, but don’t even read counterarguments? And you’re willing to call all of it nonsense even though you don’t even know what you’re talking about?

Let me tell you why I care: people, real people, some of which I personally know, have been harassed, slandered as sexual harassers, have their livelihood threatened or straight up terminated or have been actually SWATted, and you have the gall to insult me because I actually care. The fact that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you’re actually talking about while doing it is not my problem.

You made claims about the irrelevance of this all as if you knew what it was. Want to know who is actually doing the closest real-life equivalent to the conspiracy bullshit you’re going on about? It’s those guys I mentioned. The ones helping along by defending EA’s blatant lies and pushing anti-consumer practices. Now it turns out you were talking about a “divide and conquer” strategy without even knowing who you claimed was doing it. I gave you an actual retort to your obsession with EA under the assumption that you actually cared about it, so sorry for taking your constant insistence of that as proof that you might actually care.

I’ve already explained why this makes no sense whatsoever. I don’t even fucking buy EA games, and you’re simply laughing at me when I name the exact guys openly doing the thing you’re complaining about.

As for the rest of you… honestly, this has been a pretty serious disappointment. I mean, shit, you don’t actually HAVE to care about these things, but I expected a little better response than “Hahaha, look at that nerd getting angry about videogames” from you. I’m not angry about video games, I’m angry about real people doing some seriously reprehensible bullshit to people I know and you laughing at anybody who actually happens to care about it. Yes, it’s an industry with people that I have personal investments in, so I care. Sorry I don’t find numerous acquaintances getting harassed out of employment or suicide attempts hilarious or appreciate being laughed at for doing so, I’m clearly not as cool as you. This has gone as far as the FTC drafting new rules and Gawker Media losing several million dollars in the scandal, so yes, I’m actually interested in it.

I didn’t expect cheering support, agreement or even attention. I was willing to hear counterarguments or even reasons for why this isn’t as big a deal as I make it out to be, which is why I even bothered to reply to Zepp. But I did expect something better than simple mockery from people who speak proudly about how much they didn’t even care to read what this was about.

I’ve been here for eleven years now and over time grew to respect a great deal of you while reading the discussions you got involved in. Though I suppose you’ll now laugh about it because I happened to care about that too.

#122

Is this actually a thing that’s happening?

Let me remind you of what the post that headlined this thread said:

Don’t get me wrong; you’re allowed to have a change of heart. But, you came into this discussion with a cavalier, “Look at what a ridiculous, sensational shitshow this whole Gamergate stuff is”, so don’t come back at people who still have the same attitude as you did about Gamergate with this “Serious Disappointment” crap. It wasn’t even that long ago that you lacked any empathy (or acted like you lacked any empathy) for anyone involved. How are you going to act shocked at people who carry the same stance that you did, hardly any time ago?

#123

Pardon the impending rambling, but I think a look at the recent Sony Pictures thing is in order.

Ignoring the fact that Sony caved or the validity of the bullshit threats made against them. The stated reason as to how North Korea got into Sony’s systems was through assorted spyware installed on a computer with system admin access. The reason why I bring this up is out of the question of how? How did they manage to install a backdoor into Sony’s systems?

There are a number of possibilities, but the easiest and simplest answer is that someone either loyal to N. Korea or had been paid off by someone from N. Korea installed the spyware for a tidy sum (or through pressure held over them).

Of course, I don’t believe this was done for the sake of the attack, but because it was done to allow an avenue for N. Koreans to access and partake in Sony’s movies and other products. And once they’re done with the movies themselves, they can then turn around and sell off their pirated copies to their fellow countrymen and others for a tidy profit. And all the while, not a single coin shows up in the coffers of the creators from this illicit activity, save for the one underling who sold out his own company for his own profit.

But now that these same crooks used this method to carry out an attack on the company so surely Sony will go through all its hardware and software, searching for any backdoors used to carry out this thread, nail them shut and fire anyone who could have even remotely been involved in this debacle. The only problem with this is that Sony will turn around and hire more cheap labor, one of which will be approached by some North Koreans holding either a sack full of money (or perhaps something over the head of said laborer), and the cycle continues unabated.

My point is this. There are people out there committing crimes and generally being parasites to society and will continue to do so regardless as to what we do, because they can. Up until the moment they are made to pay for their crimes to the extent that their actions cripples or kills them, they will continue to act in whatever means they feel will profit them regardless of the consequences. There’s nothing that can be done to stop this beyond denying them at every turn to the point where they can no longer profit from their underhanded activities. In other words, it is an impossible task as there are always fools who think they can get ahead by ignoring the warning signs and chasing after offers that are too good to be true.

My other belabored point is that Gamersgate is not the only injustice in this world, and its hard to fight against even one injustice in the face of so many others going on all around us.

Another recent anecdote I have is about law students participating in the ongoing protests about the courts’ rulings regarding what kind, if any, punishment police officers should receive for the deaths of African Americans caught committing petty crimes (if any crime at all) instead of studying for their exams.

In this, the protesting students demanded additional time to study since they’re so busy fighting the injustices in the world. One person then responded with the question “If you want to make a difference so much, why not complete your studies and become lawyers for the ACLU instead of throwing beer bottles at windows at these protests?”.

My point here is that right now, some of us are not in the position of making any real, meaningful or positive impact on this situation. The most that many outside of the game industry can do is not join in on the chorus that’s currently wrecking more havoc than they’re resolving.

e:f;b.

#124

I did very much have a change of hard as I kept reading and things kept coming to light; mostly as real, serious harassment occurred, which is why I made sure to bring that up. When I made that post, this was still just rumours and none of the stuff I brought up had happened yet or hadn’t been brought to light. Like I said, I had no idea if anything worthwhile would come out of it at the time. It most definitely did and I pointed that out. When the words “suicide attempt” came into play, you bet I stopped laughing right there, especially as I was one of the people scrambling to get the guy’s information so that someone could call the police. This has gone as far as the FTC drafting new rules that affect every single website under their jurisdiction.

In any case, there’s a difference between not caring and laughing at the fact that someone does, even as someone like Zepp sees fit to throw his own speeches at me as if he were actually making some point. God knows I wouldn’t demand that you care, but I do find it pretty damn childish to laugh at someone explaining why they do while also joking about how you haven’t even read those reasons. By all means ignore me, but I am going to reply to posts that make wrong claims at me and, as a rule, like to be thorough and cite real sources when I make claims of my own. That in itself being risible to people is surprising.

I sure as hell I’m not, nor would I expect any different from you. My beef was with straight up incorrect claims being made, primarily Zepp claiming nothing is going on and anyone who claims so is a schizo. Though I gotta point out, you’re riding the fallacy of Relative Privation mighty hard there. There’s always something worse than what you’re dealing with going on somewhere.

#125

Yep. Basically, yep. I mean…have I ever really done anything different? I don’t care about gamers or social justice warriors or webcomic artists. Don’t care at all. What I do find amusing is people who care way too much about them. Honestly, it seems like you think the gamergate thing is a bunch of bullshit, which doesn’t seem that fundamentally different from what I think of the whole situation. But like…you get so invested and angry and mouth-breathing about this shit that my inner troll can’t help but edge you on. So like…nothing personal dude, but this is literally what I’ve been doing around these forums for like more than a decade. If you can come back with a single paragraph or two that explains your views without resorting to seething, obscenity-filled rage and obscure examples nobody knows about except for you, then like…I’ll read what you have to say and think about it. But you can’t expect me to read through thousands of words of raging nerditry and expect me to care at all. Or like, you can keep doing that, and I’ll keep finding it amusing. And ClothHat will continue making clever one liners. I mean…either way it seems like we win.

#126

I think that people, whatever their stance or occupation, being openly harassed out of their jobs, projects blacklisted and censored based on moralistic whimpering and general slander of professionals with lies of the level of career-crushing severity attributed to sexual harassment to be a very serious issue, especially when it is actively encouraged or flat out perpetrated by the media itself right before they fill their mouths about their own self-righteousness.

But again, I don’t care about making you care. I was under the mistaken impression than your not-exactly-brief posts such as…

…and…

…actually contained some form of factual content and claims rather that being random successions of words you now say you don’t care about. If it is nothing but random trolling, then that’s that. Though I’d point out that you’ve written quite a bit yourself on a topic you care nothing for so… not exactly that good return for effort ratio as far as trolling goes.

#127

Seraph, if Zepp didn’t care about GamerGate and was mostly just rambling after skimming your posts, wouldn’t it make sense for his responses to be successions of random words?

#128

Let’s go to the nerd store.

#129

“D’ya have fun at the NERD STORE!?”

#130

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD

#131

What I wrote are my actual beliefs on the matter, as someone who is relatively uninformed of this specific issue but hold general, abstract beliefs about the matter based on various experiences and understandings of the world I’ve gained in the last 31 years. I never said I don’t care about the topic itself. I think it’s quite fascinating that some of the more mysogonistic, racist and generally otherwise unsavory characteristics of the gaming community are finally becoming more well-known, and I hope this is results in a change for the better.

This. Specifically, this is what I don’t care about. Maybe I’m a sociopathic monster or something…but I just don’t care. I only got so many cares to give. I care about what happens to my family and friends. I care about the greater community I live in, to a somewhat lesser extent. Beyond that, there’s a bunch of philosophical viewpoints of the world that I also kinda care about, from political to social and economic beliefs, but as I get older seem to care about less. I mean, then there’s all the shit like starving children in Africa or whatever. I mean…I guess I care about that, sort of. Sucks to be a starving African kid, no doubt. But what am I supposed to do about it on a daily basis? And then I’m a consumer of mass media, so like last week I had to care about Australian coffee shop patrons, and Sony executives, and some random celebrities doing stuff or whatever. And today I’m supposed to care about New York City police officers. And I think CNN still desperately wants me to care about Malaysia Airlines passengers in the Indian ocean. Then, after all of that, there’s some random white middle class webcomic artists that lost their jobs, maybe cause of gamergate, maybe cause they are mysogonistic psychopaths, or maybe they did absolutely nothing wrong and got screwed. I don’t really care which one it is.

So you get it? You’re trying to prove some general point to me that I should care about Gamer Gate, based on some random experiences I (and probably most people) don’t have any cares left to give for. If you want other people to care about this issue, then you have to find some better way to appeal to them. What’s the bigger picture here? And why should I care about it more than women getting harassed with death and rape threats just for playing games? Cause from a marketing standpoint, they’ve already got the better “story” here if you will, and their complaints seem much more legitimate from the point of view of someone not deeply embedded in the gamer community (most people).

In one sense, if you really think your issues are really more important than all those other things I mentioned, it makes me impulsively want to question your priorities. But hey, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here that maybe there’s some legitimate point to be made. And if we all cared about the exact same stuff, it’d all be pretty boring. But you have to understand that you are coming at this issue from a view point held by only a very small minority of people, who are going to have the natural reaction of being rather horrified you are taking the side of gamers making rape threats rather than supporting the victims. I’m sure that’s not how you actually feel, but it’s what most people are gonna assume. Crying loudly “but people on the other side were hurt too!!!” isn’t going to win the war of hearts and minds. If anything, it sounds defensive, like you’re avoiding the main issue, and it’s essentially saying “well I’m not racist, but…”