Uh, the Founders weren’t really against the BoR. It was more of a debate of whether or not such stuff had to be specifically spelled out, which it did. Many of the Founders were also politicians in Congress or state legislatures at the time and pushed for the ratification. Although, I guess this is confusion over the distinction between Founder and Framer (that even I sank into, I probably meant Framer most of the time) and is rather pointless. Like, Jefferson would be a Founder but not a Framer, but Madison (I believe) would be a Framer but not a Founder.
Secondly, I don’t think I ever said the government should favor one religion. I merely said that under a different and valid interpretation of the 1st Amendment, there could possibly exist justification for a kind of sponsoring of religious stuff, such as charities. Now, I don’t mean just sponsoring only Baptist charities, but rather any religious charity whatsoever be it Baptist, Methodist, Jewish, Muslim, Satanic (do Satanic charities even exist?) etc.
And I’ve always thought of myself as a Strict Constitutionalist/Originalist.
Edit: As for some of my comments. I don’t necessarily believe them. I’m just offering plausible alternatives. However, I think a major qualm some people have with “separation of church and state” is that in many cases it may seem more like “separation of church FROM state.” This would make it a one way street as opposed to “and” which should afford religion some non-interference by government.
Yes they were for that very reason. Madison had to fight very hard to get the Bill of Rights and it didn’t come until after the Constitution was ratified. However, there was tremendous opposition to the Bill of Rights. Part of the reason for there being so much opposition was that they ahd such a hard time agreeing on everything for the Constitution, let alone a Bill of Rights. Madison ahd to fight for Congress to even start talking a about the Bill of Rights. Without Madison, there is a good chance there would be no Bill of Rights. It was also that argument that they feared that listing rights would end up limiting them (the reason for the Ninth Amendment). I believe that Madison was a founder and a framer.
You didn’t, and I didn’t say you did. The thing is, that it hasn’t been determined if that is part of establishing relgion and MANY people probably would view it as taking sides and viewing one religion as being given preferential treatment.
Your argument is very Rep Dem. Such as your thing about privlidges given by government is VERY Rep Dem. One aspect of Rep Dems is that they say that rights can be given and taken away, which fits with your privledges given by government part. Constitutionalists say that once a right has been given or found, it can’t be taken away (which is part of Justice Brennan’s Ratchet Theory).
That would explain me mistaking for you a Rep Dem when you say you are a Constitutionalist.
Oh. I don’t think rights (life, liberty, property, self-determination (which voting ties into)) can be legitimately taken/given away. I recognize, however, that government may try to infringe on rights by trying to take them away, but I feel they have no authority to do so (hence strong support for 2nd by me :D). I do recognize some other stuff as priveledges though (driving a car for instance). But I can see why you might mistake some of what I said. I was merely throwing out other alternatives to get the discussion churning and attempting to demonstrate the issue’s not as black and white as everyone tries to make it out to be.
Well, not this extreme. Liberal and NDP politicians and backbenchers alike would be all over their ass trying to make themselves look good Rarar Canadian constitution rarar Remember that Canada is a relatively young country (and a smaller country, in terms of pop) which has stronger homogenous ties to its constitution than America does simply because there’s less people, less groups, less points of view on how the constitution <i>should</i> be interpreted. So tell the hicks in Arkansas to take birth control pills and the problem will get better, or something
Gay marriage is still an issue here, though. <i>Everything</i> in the US gets reflected here.
Rarar Canadian constitution rarar