Religious symbols ban in France

I’m with Chirac on this one. Discreet symbols are ok, but ostensive ones have gotta go.

How could you agree to this? You’re taking away their freedom to express themselves. I find this law apalling, myself. Not only that, but the headscarves and skullcaps are part of their religion AND their culture; it is not something that you can deny them.

Agreed. What are they gonna do next, say you can’t wear necklaces with crosses?

That’s quite disheartening. Let’s hope that doesn’t make it across the pond.

It’s in schools only. You can still wear those things when you go out in the open on the streets.

These symbols are one of the things that make children seggregate in schools. That ban would make them more equal.

As for liberty of expression: okay then, I’ll just join any a nudist gorup and then I’ll go to college and have my classes butt-naked. If other people frown at me, I’ll just say it’s my culture and my freedom to express the beauty of my body and they can’t do anything about it.

You know what, if you were part of a nudist group, I wouldn’t care if you went to class buck naked- but you are skirting the issue. The issue is not nudism, it is religious freedom.

Orthodox Judaism and Islam are both established religions with their own unique cultures. If we deny them the right to wear their religious garb, then we are essentially saying that their culture does not matter to us, which I certainly hope is not the case.

The ban would make them more EQUAL? By taking away their religious beliefs and rights?

Egads, man. That sounds like Stalin.

EDIT: Right on, CC.

Hey Ren. The Federalist Paper no 10. It speaks on the issue of controlling factions, which is what you’re advocating. Probably my favorite part from it is

There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.

There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.

It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.


same old shit, different day

I agree with CC.

Ah, I saw something about this on CNN in lunch. Didn’t hear much about it then.
I think it’s pretty fuckin’ stupid :\

I love you, 984.

Originally posted by Ren
As for liberty of expression: okay then, I’ll just join any a nudist gorup and then I’ll go to college and have my classes butt-naked. If other people frown at me, I’ll just say it’s my culture and my freedom to express the beauty of my body and they can’t do anything about it.

Your allusion is inappropriate in that head scarves are not offensive and inappropriate for young children to see.

I doubt this is going to go anywhere.

You know, I’m becoming increasingly convinced a showdown between the West and the Islamic world is imminent Its a culture clash, pure and simple; we’re white, they’re brown, we’re Christian, they’re Muslim. They have oil, we need oil. Samuel Huntington must laugh himself to sleep every night.

Originally posted by Sephiroth Katana
I doubt this is going to go anywhere.

The ban, or this discussion? :stuck_out_tongue:

Once again: in schools only. You can still wear or wield your stuff on the streets, at home etc.

This is just like that case in which a statue with a bible (or it was the two tablets with the comendments, I don’t remember) was removed from a court. The condition applies to all religions, not only one. It’s meant to make schools a place where everybody is equal. I’ve already seen religious segregation in schools. It’s not a good thing to see.

There’s a difference between the Ten Commandments statue and what France wants. The Ten Commandments statue was state authorized and showed a bias towards that religion. What Chirac wants is to ban private citizens with no ties to the state as employees or anything from wearing religious symbols in school.

And really, why stop just at schools? Why not ban them on all government property? Well, there goes wearing religious affiliated items in the courts, mayor buildings, STREETS. They all have the chance of creating factions.

Edit: And SK, it says polls support it, so don’t count out France from doing it.

There’s really no reason kids should be wearing these kinds of religious symbols to school, anyway. School is meant to be a separate environment from these kinds of beliefs, and schools certainly censor plenty of other means of expression…

However, I disagree with this law because I don’t see any evidence that these symbols are directly connected to any major problems in schools, and for the obvious reason that it pinpoints certain minority religous groups.

Speaking as an Orthodox Jew, there is absolutely nowhere I don’t wear my skullcap, with the sole exception of when I’m sleeping, and the shower. If a school in Canada would forbid them, there would be an INSANE backlash, and rightly so. It’s my right as a citizen to wear whatever headgear I want provided no one else is being hurt or offended. It’s a sign of respect for God. And the Muslim scarves are a sign of modesty. Neither of them are trying to be segregational or divisive. They are not something that’s just nice to wear, nor are they just a reflection of our views - they are REQUIRED for our religion. If my school forbade me to wear my skullcap, I would have no recourse but to go to a different school. If there were no schools that allowed me to wear it, I would have to leave the country. I’m not sure you guys realize how serious this is.

I realize how serious it would be, I just don’t think it’s actually going to go into effect - and if it does, I don’t think it would last long. Like you said, there’d be a backlash.