Pakistan, Afghanistan

The Core RPGC Main Forum
#1

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The US and other western countries have sunk billions and lost thousands to this pile of rubble and really, they have nothing to show for it. Anything outside Kabul is relatively uncontrolled and Kabul itself is ruled by frauds and their corrupted circle.

Pakistan’s another epic waste of money dominated by a group of people who simply are either incompetent, hostile or duplicitous. The degree of tax evasion is comparable to if not worse than Greece’, they’re simply unwilling to help themselves build their country and its institutions. It compares with Saudia Arabia and Somalia in terms of its support for fundamentalists, its a farce to even pretend they don’t at the very best turn a blind eye to the rot that’s eating the country from within.

The people from both countries are thoroughly uninterested in any kind of cooperation or in providing western values of equal rights, education and democracy.

Osama’s dead, but he already won by having dragged the US into this for the past decade.

So what’s the point? Really?

Discuss.

#2

This is a totally biased opinion from an outsider, so it’s probably very innacurate, but here goes.

For the US, it’s all about showing thier influence on the region, that they can both be the good guys with a helping hand to the poor people and the badassess who hunt terrorists. For both countries, it’s about making a quick buck by opening borders to outside armed forces and complying with some political moves. So it’s business as usual.

Now while it sure has been a money sink for nearly a decade, the Middle-but-somewhat-farther-to-the-right-hand-side-of-the-map East has kept a lot of conservatives and war hawks happy, so for the more extremist right and the war effort industry, it was a win.

#3

It’s unfortunate that because the US has dumped so many resources and lives into Afghanistan, that many people still feel that what we wasted there will go to waste if we don’t finish what they started. But then it’s already a waste because the war is so downplayed and outright ignored by the media and the public. And the US has already tried to leave in a half-assed manner before which only served to make things worse.

At this point the US is already up to their eyeballs in this quagmire. It’s nice to be able to say what the US should have and should not have done but at the end of the day the only thing the US can do is keep digging (either out of their hole or into China).

#4

The problem is that that’s how people viewed Vietnam: too much had been put in to quit, and that led to even more waste.

I’m reading articles about how “The Afgahn people need to feel like they’re not being abandoned”. Who the fuck are the Afghan people? What proportion of them are we talking about? If the Taliban return and are allowed to remain, its not entirely because they’re unwelcome. I’d like to hear an answer to “what is the goal of continued military presence in Afghanistan” , what are the benchmarks and where are the Afghan people in all this, as they are the ones that need to do the hard work of building their country?

#5

I thought we invaded Afghanistan to find Osama bin Laden. I don’t think it was ever about showing influence on a region, that sounds stupid no matter how many times I say it. If it was about anything it was about oil, but I think that’s more like why we invaded Iraq. Now that Osama is gone, I’m curious to see how training for terrorists continues in Afghanistan. If anything I think that’s the reason they’ll say we remain in Afghanistan, is to fight terrorist training camps and to bust down doors. The way I see is it is this, look at Israel. They have terrorists in their neighborhoods building bombs and training bombers. If we fight them over there, they’re far too busy attacking targets on that side of the world to get anywhere near our borders.

I agree, in terms of countries, Pakistan and Afghanistan rank pretty high in terms of epic failure. But I think we’ve completed our over all goal, and now we need to scale it back.

#6

That’s what I called ‘influence’, when I used that word.

#7

If you don’t mind me asking, what exactly was the goal Afghanistan? (in particular) as Bin Laden (over the past few years) was believed to be on the border as oppose to within the country, itself! and the fact that they eventually found him in Pakistan. (Sorry if my question sounds absurd, but I’m just going on what I’ve heard from the media… plus I’ve probably forgot, it’s been that long! xD)

Overall, my opinion is pretty the same as Killmore’s! I would have to totally agree with him.

#8

I wish I could say what the answer is, but I don’t know. Generally, i think all the actions our country takes are to enrich our financial elite in some way, so maybe they’re getting money out of this somehow. Another theory is that its for purely political reasons - Obama wanted to show he was strong, which is why he sent troops as a sop to the political Right. Still others would probably come up with complex geostrategic theories, i.e. being in Afghanistan gives us the super-secret way to somehow, mysteriously create the right alignment of geopolitical power to RULE THE WORLD etc. etc.

Or, it could just be a mistake… but if that’s the case, our leadership has become quite incompetent.

#9

:chupon::hint::moogle:
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#10

I love countries with high tax evasion rates, they just have no fucks to give.