Oh for the love of...

The Core The Polling Forum
21

It’s too bad that Wild Arms isn’t that well known, because I think Mother is the evilest villian ever.

She thinks destruction is beautiful. She destroyed Ziekfried’s home world and plans on destroying the people who revived her after destroying Filgaia. The Quarter Knights (I think that’s their name) trusted her to rid the world of humans so they could have a new home. They realized that she was just going to destroy the world again and eventually destroy them. You can tell this from after you defeat Ziekfried and he gets sent back to the Protosphere. The lesser villans fear her instead of getting angry for them being betrayed (like Kefka and the Gestahl.) Before Ziek gets absorbed by Mother’s remains he thinks that her being revived must be a bad dream.

22

Dude: Wild Arms I definitely gets my vote for best TEAM of villains, they had almost all kinds of them: The ninhilistic destroyer (Mother), the more typical villain (Zeikfreid), the tragic villaines (Lady Harkonen), the comedy relief, the mad scientist, the cool neutral Ninja, etc etc. And they were all fun, too! :cool:

23

I believe that it was implied that Jenova was the mastermind behind the whole plot all along, and Sephiroth was a deluded freak. For that reason, I love their interaction, their connection and their part in that Final Fantasy story.

But I never got the whole head thing either. I wish we knew more about Jenova. It is my most favoritist FF villain twiddles thumbs

edit: is this the first wa?

24

Apparently, from what I gather on the trailers, the Seph lookalikes (Who call Cloud “brother”) are searching for the remaining bits of their “mother” (Jenova). So no, she didn’t just disappear.

In other words: Kuja.

[SPOILER]You are going to punch me for this but… I could never take Grahf seriously. In my mind there is Lacan, the hatred consumed Contact who only desires to destroy the world, and then there’s Grahf, the comic relief villain.

He’s not SUPPOSED to be funny, but I just can’t help feel like he’s made as a joke. His repetitive Team Rocket-ish routine doesn’t help either. Also some of the quirks, like when he appears on the desert for the first time and his Gear is standing on a stone spire. A SINGLE STONE SPIRE IN THE MIDDLE OF A GIGANTIC DESERT and no matter what angle the camera takes he’s still got the moon on the background. Also when you fight Shakhan, he comes down from above as usual… except you are in a CAVE. Did he get in before you and just latched onto the ceiling waiting to make a dramatic entrance? I can’t help it when I think like this.

The only cool bad guy in XG is Id IMO. Ramsus has even more of the Shinji Ikari thing going than his “older brother” Fei, Krelian is just megalomaniac lacking real evilness and Miang isn’t actually alive.[/SPOILER]

25

I think the moral of this entire thread was that Sephiroth won because he is the more popular of the above mentioned. Period.

I still say Kefka was the most evil of them all. :mwahaha:

26

Yeah.

27

Wilf: Those are actually some pretty iteresting insights, and I think some of them might be correct.

Seraphim: Good points about Nibelheim, and I totally forgot that Cloud wasn’t actually a clone, but you agree that he can be controlled, and that’s enough.

I still don’t agree that what was done to the Zolom could be accomplished by a higher-than-average fighter. What I mean is, he’d have to be higher than average, but to an extent that the phrase “higher than average” wouldn’t do him justice.

When did your party fight the Zolom? If it was only just after Kalm, you were extremely lucky to beat it.

The fact that your party can kill Zoloms doesn’t necessarily mean they’re on par with Sephiroth. Sephiroth literally staked the head of what I’m guessing is an eighty foot constrictor snake, and that says something completely different than merely managing to kill one. You also have to keep in mind that Sephiroth is not only growing in power as you do, but that Zolom-killing isn’t necessarily his full capacity, even at that point in the game.

IMO, Sephiroth isn’t strong because of any individual feat. He’s strong because he always manages to stay several steps ahead of you (and Shinra) even when his only tools are disposable clones.

As for being BADASS, though… If he really was Jenova’s pawn, there’s no way he could be badass, but I don’t think that’s the case.

From as early as the Temple of the Ancients he shows evidence of following his own agenda, and from as early as the cargo ship he starts using parts of Jenova as HIS pawns.

Also, if the Jenova cells in the bodies of his clones are being called to his body in the promised land for the reunion, chanting “Sephiroth is near,” and “must find sephiroth,” would that not imply some sort of mastermindism on his part?

28

Yeah, I just put Cloud, Barret and Tifa ready to use Limit breaks and bashed him all at once. A bit overleveled of course, but not by that much.

Yes, he did something rather impressive there didn’t he? But the REAL Sephiroth got the shit beaten out of him five years ago by a guy who had barely even awakened as a SOLDIER.

All Seph does is escape faster and let Shinra and Cloud slow each other down. Do you think that, of having worked together, Sephiroth could have gone against something like the Mako Cannon? It’s not a feat in his part, it’s stupidity in ours.

I’ll admit that he is powerful, but a lot of what he did was due to circumstantial luck, like Cloud retrieving the Black Materia (If Shinra had done it, he wouldn’t have been able to get it so easily, or at all) or both Shinra and Cloud getting in each other’s way. He didn’t beat the two groups, he just took advantage of their lack of fucking common sense.

But I guess this is just up to what you call “strong”. I’m just saying that, for being revered as the ultimate villain, he’s lacking a lot of power. Or at the very least Cloud should be put on an even higher pedestal, seeing as he won both one-on-one confrontations.

I always thought of Sephiroth and Jenova working together… or even being the same creature. Their objectives were the same and I agree with you on Seph never showing signs of being controlled: There was so much of Jenova in Sephiroth that he was no longer human (Northern Crater fight anyone?) but simply an extension (Or most likely the nexus) of the Jenova collective.

29

Just to toss my two cents in:

To me, Kefka is the most evil videogame villian ever. Yes, he wasn’t badass, looking like and often acting like an insane clown, but thats even in its own right. He had absoultly NO remorse, NO scarred childhood or whatever to motivate him, he killed and destroyed because it essentially got him off (pardon the expression, but it pretty much sums up his motives). He only wanted to become a god because so he could destroy everything. The kicker for me is that, even though it was only for a period of about a year, Kefka actually won. He managed to beat the good guys, destroy the know world, and break the spirits of it’s people. Sure, it really didn’t last long, but few other videogame villians still manage to pull that off.

whew Glad I got that out of my system. And yeah, most GameFAQ members are single celled organisms, so the polls there count for little.

30

I agree that Cloud killing Sephiroth in the reactor was unlikely, but what about his feelings for Tifa? Could the sight of her wounds not have invoked some kind of emotional strength?

It’s a stretch, but consider the Dragon that Sephiroth and Cloud kill near the truck. If that’s any indication of their strength difference, I doubt Cloud’s soldier awakening alone could be responsible for his ability to beat Sephiroth. Look at the nature of the fight. Cloud is impaled by the Masamune, and it is only through desperation that he manages to toss Sephiroth into the Mako pool. Can that even be called a win? Cloud fought dirty, relied on luck and desparation, suffered fatal wounds, and didn’t do any real damage to Sephiroth. IMO, there’s nothing here that should compromise our perception of Sephiroth’s strength.

I don’t think Sephiroth escapes faster. I think it’s that he doesn’t have to. He is always several steps ahead because he has a worldwide network of clones working in unison. This is also supported by what you said about Cloud and Shinra slowing each other down. Damaging the Tiny Bronco, for example, didn’t help either side gain any distance on Sephiroth. Sephiroth didn’t have to escape because there wasn’t much to escape from.

The Black Materia situation is complicated. If Shinra got it first, Sephiroth could’ve stolen it as easily from an encore performance of floor 69 as he did from Cloud. The bottom line at that point in the game was that Sephiroth had an army of clones at his temple-shrinking disposal. I don’t think it was poor judgement on anyone’s part. Cloud was merely doing what he could. It was indeed circumstantial luck, but I’d hardly call it’s Sephiroth’s plan A.

31

I am sick and tired of this reasoning. I’m not answering to you, this is a separate matter so don’t take it personally, but I’ve had it with heroes overcoming difficulties out sheer will. If you couldn’t kill the fifty-feet dragon before, then there is no reason for why you should be able to simply because that bitch you’re traveling with scrapped her knee and pissed you off. If there is some biological or supernatural energy triggered by emotions like Trance, Super Saiyan or anything else like that, I’ll accept it, but please don’t just suddenly power up for no conceivable reason.

Cloud held Sephiroth in the air. This even worse than if he had beaten him out of skill: Cloud showed a higher physical strength than his rival. Yes, he played dirty, but the fact remains that at this point, his brute force was higher than Seph’s. And that is exactly what the SOLDIER treatment does: Increase the warriors physical and mental attributes to make them stronger.

In that scene, you have two people biologically altered in the same manner, but one of them was supposed to have proportionately higher statistics. And the other one still wins.

That’s exactly what I said. Cloud and Shinra were so busy fighting each other that they didn’t even pose a real threat.

Point. I’ll give you this one.

32

Holding someone in the air doesn’t mean you are physically stronger than them. It doesn’t even mean you weigh more unless there is some fulcrum, and even then, there’s leverage.

You have to wonder why Sephiroth didn’t just let go of the sword, though.

If there is some biological or supernatural energy triggered by emotions like Trance, Super Saiyan or anything else like that, I’ll accept it, but please don’t just suddenly power up for no conceivable reason.
Alexander the Great believed there was exactly this. He encouraged homosexuality (to be blunt) amongst his men because he believed their strength and determination would be enhanced if they were fighting for someone they loved.

Of course loving someone isn’t going to make your flesh any less supple from a dragon’s point of view, and I know exactly where you were going with that (Cloud can’t kill a dragon, Sephiroth can, Cloud can suddenly defeat Sephiroth (however marginally), therefore he can suddenly kill a dragon), and I have to admit that’s a little extreme, but you have to realize this is a videogame, and there may have been other forces at work, too.

33

They were both holding on to equal ends of the sword, but one still lifted the other. If Sephiroth had just allowed himself to be thrown without fighting back it would have been ridiculous. Also, if both were in perfect condition, Sephiroth should be heavier than Cloud, since he is taller.

Yes, I know that he could have just let the damn handle go, but drama and logic just don’t mix well.

I’m talking about ridiculous amounts of power coming out of nowhere. Giving everything you’ve got is one thing, suddenly overcoming enemies that you shouldn’t even be able to scratch is another very different.

Like I said, it’s a separate matter, I’m not even talking about the game. I’m mostly referring to instances more commonly seen in anime and manga where the characters win battles they shouldn’t even be able to survive. I have a clear example right on my mind but first I’ve got to ask: Did you read Houshin Engi?

34

Alexander the Great was such a pimp.

35

Well, there you have the kicker don’t you? Cloud WAS in pretty much perfect condition until he got stabbed, whereas Seph had already fought another First-Class SOLDIER and got stabbed, or slashed, across the back by Cloud. Plus he was fighting one handed, the other was holding onto some wound or another.
Just MY two cents.

36

I don’t get why Kefka is always brought up in the Sephiroth war. Kefka had what, a dozen lines in the entire game? Yeah he’s scary. Such a perfect example of a well rounded, developed and menacing character right there. Not.

37

rawfles.

I saw this thread title, and rolled over it, and all i saw was “gamefaqs had another…” and I FUCKING KNEW it was about Sephiroth winning their stupid character battle. Without even looking at the results from the battle EVER, i KNEW, because GF is so stupid, that OF COURSE Sephiroth won.

I am a genius.

38

Kefka did not need any long dialogues, although he had a fairly long one in the end. His plot was simple: got infused with an unperfected magic thingy, went insane, became evil and destroyed the world. Of course he was not a rounded character, he was completely flat and one-sided: evil.

As I said before, Sephi won the poll because he is somehow more popular.

39

So why does Sephiroth get knocked for being crazy due to mommy gone bad plot, yet Kefka is more cooler because he has no reason? I never got that.

40

Kefka didn’t have no reason. He was the first Magitek experiment, which completely messed him up. It’s not MUCH of a reason, but it is one.