I’ve had this on my mind since RotK but now I’ve remembered to mention it here.
Is it just me or is Ghandalf seem very “unwizrdly”? Sure he had that battle with the other wizard (I can’t think of his name this minute) and the Balrog but that was really the only time he used magic IMO. Other things like the glowing staff, and the curing of the king are more like clerical powers in my opinion. Pity me, I haven’t had time to read the books.
It’s Gandalf. And he battles Saruman.
But I digress, or something.
I don’t think Tolkien’s vision of a wizard is the same as what people view it today. I think Tolkien meant more of someone who had vast amounts of knowledge and a few neat skills and overall is just more of a saving-type dude.
Ah, that’s the answer I was looking for. Thanks Cala. I was just going to edit and ask “How did Tolkein envision a wizard?”
I don’t see things he did as clerical. Just because he’s healing someone does not imply it’s clerical stuff.
Now, let’s make a list of wizardry things he does and people tend to forget:
Shaping fluids: he makes the smoke of his pipe take the form of a ship. In the book, it was the elven king and Gandalf who threw water horses against the Narzul, not Arwen, and Gandalf says he only put the horse shapes on the rake.
Summon lightning: as seen against the balrog.
Animalese: he talked to horses, butterflies and eagles throughout the books. Also, he calls Scadufaz whistling a tone that can be heard from miles away.
Long live the wizard: he mentions having lived 300 human lives in TTT.
Celerity 1, Potence 3, Fortitude 2? : for an man as old as he is, he fights well. Too well. He alone is worth 100 soldiers from Minas Tirith. Most humans were fighting the orcs in an equal fight, and they had armor and sharp weapons. Gandalf had a staff and no armor at all, yet he kicked some ass.
Fear me: he looked really cool when he intimidated Frodo in the first movie.
Shiny things: he can cast light with his staff.
Dispel: I think the ‘healing’ of the king was rather a dispelling of Saruman’s magic.
Sleeping with eyes open: I’d like to sleep like that, just for the sake of freaking other people out.
That’s all I can remember, please post more things you people know of.
I think Tolkien envisioned a mage that didn’t use his powers whenever possible because if he did he wouldn’t be such a great character.
He’s like the same thing as sauron, so when he uses magic he gives the position away. and he would know where they are. or somthing.
anyway, remember that giant marble penigren took found? what ever happened to that? that like should have played a bigger part.
Notions of wizardry vs. clericalism, as far as I know, began with D&D. Also, you have to remember that he is just called a wizard by humans and elves, but that doesn’t completely describe him. Just like Gandalf is not his true name, it’s just one of his names among lesser beings.
If you read the Silmarillion, you find out that Gandalf is a being known as an Istari, who are closer to gods than anything else.
I thought the giant marble had a bigger part too. I guess they cut a bunch of stuff out from the book that they felt was not necessary.
What REALLY threw me off is not only my view of a wizard, but seeing an old man wield THAT kind of sword. I never thought I’d see a Wizard with a sword up front fighting.
Originally posted by Ren
… and Gandalf who threw water horses against the Narzul, …
It’s <i>Nazgul</i>.
[QUOTE]Also, he calls Scadufaz
He calls the horse “Shadowfax,” not “Scadufaz.”
Fear me: he looked really cool when he intimidated Frodo in the first movie.
No, he intimidated Bilbo. … Just thought I’d split hairs.
That is simply because magic isn’t a common thing in Midde-Earth. The ability to use magic is reserved to a few: Such as Wizards and Gods, and even they are pretty limited. For the most, what you’ll see of magic are magic items like the One Ring.
Not sure why it’s like that, it’s how Tolkien wanted it to be I suppose.
Merlin didn’t exactly go about throwing around fireballs either, y’know, and he’s the classic wizard.
Originally posted by Kero Hazel
If you read the Silmarillion, you find out that Gandalf is a being known as an Istari, who are closer to gods than anything else.
Actually, you find that out in LotR. In the Sillmarillion you discover Gandalf, like Sauron, Radagast, The Balrog and Saruman is a Maia spirit, but yeah they are they nearest race to the Valar than any other.
Originally posted by Karlemagne
He’s like the same thing as sauron, so when he uses magic he gives the position away. and he would know where they are. or somthing.
I don’t think it was revealed in the book, but Gandalf was carrying one of the three elven rings, so revealing himself is a no no.
I thought the giant marble had a bigger part too. I guess they cut a bunch of stuff out from the book that they felt was not necessary.
Aragorn used it to see what Sauron’s plans were. In the book, Pippin didn’t see Minas Tirith burning, and I think this is how Sauron found out about the heir of Elendil. In addition to this, there was another Palantir (or giant marble) in Minas Tirith, which Denethor had been using. It drove him slowly mad, which explains why he tried to burn himself and Faramir on the pyre. I didn’t think they explained that part in the movie well enough.
Tokien explained his view of magic in Middle-Earth in one of his letters. Basically, he equated magic with technology. It could be very useful, but it could also be very unintentionally destructive, and too much of a reliance upon it was unhealthy and dangerous(which made magic itself risky because it naturally created a dependence for it in those who used it). At least, that’s what I think he said. In Lotr its the bad guys who have all the sorcery powers. The good guys do have magic to a degree; Tolkien talks about how Faramir and Denethor had intuitive senses or something like that, which allowed Denethor to grapple minds with Sauron, and the elves had magic of a kind that dealt mostly with nature and beauty. But in both cases the magic in question was unhealthy; in Denethor’s case it let Sauron corrupt, since because he became so hyper-attuned to the reality of his situation and how black it really was, and in the case of the elves it generally led to an unhealthy desire to preserve the aestethic beauty of Middle-Earth as they saw it, which in turn leads to the malaise and pessimism we see in the elves in Lotr. And of course the Ringwraiths were once men who were corrupted by magic. Some people even say that the ‘Ring’ is in a way symbolic of ultimate destructive technology, such as the A-bomb.
Originally posted by Cala
I think Tolkien meant more of someone who had vast amounts of knowledge and a few neat skills and overall is just more of a saving-type dude.
That is how I imagined Gandalf the Grey/White, Saruman the White, Radagast the Brown and the two blue wizards, Pallando and Alatar, who do not appear in his works. After all, that is what the word means: Old English wis ‘wise’ + weard ‘guardian, keeper’, and, seeing as Tolkien was a professor of Anglo-Saxon studies and that aspects of Anglo-Saxon culture and the Old English language are widely recurrent in his works, I am sure that he meant his wizards to be that to a degree.
I’m sure I’ve read, either in the appendices of LOTR or in The Silmarillion, that the wizards were sent to Middle Earth to act as guides, and were not supposed to use their powers to impose rule upon anybody. Gandalf certainly acts as a guide for the Fellowship.
Originally posted by ClothHat
I don’t think it was revealed in the book, but Gandalf was carrying one of the three elven rings, so revealing himself is a no no.
It was mentioned at the very end of Return of the King as they got on the boat.
Movie I mean, not book.