I see dead people...

So here we go, I noticed a very interesting discussion come up, then blasted away from conversation as it was “off topic”… SO, Lets make it a topic in itself.

Here is a post by Born_Looser in the individual classes thread.

I really like this idea Born, I was hoping we could talk more about this and discuss other people’s opinions on “Ghosts” as well here.

Round 1



I am a spiritist, I believe that there are other dimensions where souls exist. I also believe that those dimensions are purely phisical, just like ours, and there is nothing mystical or holy about them unless you want them to be (the same way that a church is holy for you just because you put faith in its holiness). We can’t directly perceive those dimensions for the same reason an hypothetical 2-dimensional being can’t see us.

That said, I believe that we have subtle bodies. From now on, I am going into religious aspects from my creed, so if you are more interested in solely scientifical discussion you may skip the rest of this post.

Our body stretches in more than 4 dimensions. But, for the purpose of studying the body pieces in other dimensions, we divide the body in many other sub-bodies. The 3-dimensional body is called ‘phisical body’ for reference due to historical background. The other divisions are called subtle bodies. We go from 3-dimensional to 8-dimensional parts.

The conscience rests in the 3-dimensional body because this is the most stable stance, where it can dwell with the least effort. In cases where this phisical body is at risk, stronger minds may instinctively push the conscience to a subtle body with more dimensions. This is the primary cause for NDE’s [near death experiences].

Knowing that, I also believe that these bodies, with the exception of the 8-dimensional, may all “die”. Only the first two or three ones can be properly destroyed, though. The others simply transform into another shape, with no time between ‘death’ and ‘rebirth’. When a 4-dimensional body lacks a 3-dimensional one, it looks for one that is being generated and attaches to it, “reincarnating”. The same thing happens when a 5-dimensional body lacks a 4-dimensional one, it looks for a “soul” being generated and attaches to it.

From here on, we get into reincarnation. When the phisical body loses life, the conscience jumps to the 4-dimensional body. Here is an interesting effect. When we are in the phisical body, we are trapped in time, so we only flow in one direction in it. But the 4-dimensional body has a little mobility here, being able to go back, forward, and even to the “sides” (allowing them to see possible outcomes for an event). Those consciences which remain 4-dimensional for more than a moment become wandering souls, or as I like to call them, ‘earthbound spirits’. This is a sad form of life, in a state which is called ‘hell’ by some people. Other souls get into other bodies, and then they will go to another realms. They will eventually come back to Earth and reincarnate.

Spirits who become earthbound are those which can’t get detached of their earthly lives. The condition is very psichologically damaging, and they slowly get more and more demented untill they become sad drones. Eventually their memories decay and fade, and they undergo forced reincarnation. But even after they leave a place, a diffused reflex of what they were remains. This is a ghost. A ghost will remain in a place for a very long span of time, acting like a spiritual robot that mimicries the earthbound spirit’s actions and thoughts repeatedly. It has no conscience, and remains in one place untill other emanations, both from the “living” and from spiritual beings, slowly “overwrite” the ghost.

The ghost I described above is what Born_Loser talks about. Spirits and ghosts all emanate this thing which is called “energy”, “aura”, “soma” or whatever you name it, which carry a “signature” of its generators. That is what some sensitive people perceive.

I believe that this dimension is all there is, unless you concider Heaven and Hell dimensions. The dead go into the ground, their souls go to heaven or hell, And that is pretty much it.

I’ll just say there’s plenty stuff going on we don’t know about. And that’s the extent of my thought about it … as far as application to the real world goes. Now, if I was making a sci-fi thing about it, I’d probably go into crazy shit like half-dimensions or “planes” and depict Death as a doable chick, like Nulani except not as vaguely creepy. Well … maybe still vaguely creepy, but not as much. I dunno.

I do believe in the “spirits” concept only if something troubled them in the past life like forsay, your stepfather poisoned you and your mother doesnt know about it. she wouldnt believe her own child because she loved that bastard anyhow. but when nothing that bad ever happened then iether you go to hell or heaven. As for the dimension part, I never really thought about…i guess that the dimensional sites are endless and only belong to the catagory of an enigmatic concept…i dont really know , its quite complicated. Pretty good topic to discuss though

having said that , it brings me to that dam complicated Chrono Cross story of two dimensions allways being parallel, where choices you didnt choose actually happened in the other dimension…hmmm… crap, i dont know what to belive anymore!Though I think its quite possible

I See Dead People!! Honest! I live near a Church and a Furneral Parolor, Like Next door.

Heaven and Hell

Paraphased From Revelations by John (Last Book in the bible). (Just To calm you Dispentional Premillennialism-its, or Amillennialism-its or even the Postmillennialism-its)

After the 1000 years, All who are dead rise again, God Judges all the people and lets them in heaven or sends them to hell. God then gets Satan and all those against God and thrown in the Firey lake of sulfur.
For those in Heaven they live in a city made of gold and has a river follow though it.

Keswick 2004 Week 2 Semiars

Big Nutter
(I’ll should Living Close To Nutty Nat)

hmmm…i still dont know what to believe anymore! :wink:

<<_ >> id say the possibilities are endless

I forgot to give credit to Dave Fenton. Want more info ask: dave@keswickyouth.com and mention Mike Sharpe Week 2 18+ minigroup.

Big Nutter

I do believe in psychic energy (Since I’ve actually started experimenting with Psi-balls and I’ve started to create some), which most people will attribute to spirits, however, I don’t believe in spirits themselves.

Now, this doesn’t mean I don’t think people that see them are crazy. What I do believe is that sometimes, in certain places, the barrier between parallel dimensions weakens and in some cases fades almost completely. When it weakens, you can see “spirits”, which are actually beings that live in this parallel dimension. When it fades, this is when you can really feel a spirits presence and it makes itself known by throwing things etc.

Keep in mind I haven’t read most of this thread since I don’t really feel like debating, only expressing my opinion, albeit short and not very detailed.

hmmmm good point! …what?


Ok here’s a point: did anyone else here know that when you die, you lose 21g in body weight. This has been proved. What is this? Well possibly your soul. I prefer to call it mind energy. And, since energy can’t be destroyed, only changed, what happens to it. Possibly it connects to a new host. Maybe it goes beyond the edge of the Universe into the nothing beyond where it’s sent to either heaven or hell. That’s what I think.

I understand the whole dimensions thing, though I am curious what all 8 are (I’m only familiar with 5) And to put it in perspective with Crono Cross, that’s simple. That’s the part about moving sideways in dimension-4 (time). Like the old sci-fi show “Sliders” every posiblity can and dose happen - just not here. Envision a road with endles forks. This road is your life, every fork is a decision that afects your life, not the should I wear the red or blue outfit (though in theory these might count as well) but rather what school you go to, should you have thrown that rock at that kid in the second grade, that kind of thing. Where was I? Oh yes! At these decisions you go down one of those forks, there is no going back (that’s what video games are for) and a new universe or dimension is created. This happens with everyone.

coolio!!! :cool:

wait …the’re 8 dimensions? please explain… :moogle:

I do believe in spirits, though I have seen no proof of them nor heard of any “true” encounters. I believe in the “forked road” theory mixed with the “weakened barrier” theory (both posted above).

Another idea put up about a multiverse (though nothing to do with spirits), is that by traveling through a “gate” we can go to a middle land and from there go to other universes, which have different outcomes because of choices made (although they’re large ones like a change in how the Cuban missile crisis was handled). It comes from the series that includes Atlantis Gate and has a guy named Dane (I think) as more or less the main character.

What’s the fifth one

I personally don’t have much faith in anything, so I have to see to believe most things.

OK, firstly, you’ve just destroyed your own argument. Now assuming that you do have a soul, if it’s energy as you’ve said, then it’s most likely that it WON’T account for that extra 21g since it’s energy, and energy has no mass. Secondly, as I was reminded in the chat, you do know about what happens to your bodily wastes when you die right? I would be more robust in my destruction of your argument but meh.

well, i gotta side with Urkani on the ‘energy’ thing

Ren refers to 8 dimensions.
The 5th, if memory seerves is energy, like electricity. I don’t know if it includes the mental energy that every is talking about.