Man, I have more ethics and morals than Ren, how disturbing is that?
Well, the evil side of me finds torturing criminals appealing, sure, and it makes for a fine deterrant. But rehabilitating and resocializing criminals, if successful, allows them to become a productive part of society again, instead of sapping away at government money.
And that’s assuming there are no innocents that were taken up by the “justice” system.
True, but it would be impossible to do so. And even if you do imprision “innocents”, all you’ve done is rehabilitate them, so no true harm done, at least not as much as you would have done if you had tortured them, which could very well result in the opposite of the desired effect (an innocent man brutally beaten for crimes he didn’t commit allows his heart to be consumed by darkness and lashes out against the system, destroying the very core of the government that oppressed him…actually that would make a kickass movie)
There’s a better way to make prisoners productive: enslave them all. In some prisons in US they are forced to work building and repairing roads, and the only benefit they get form it is escaping the other alternative (being tied to fence under the blazing sun).
edit: >(…)an innocent man brutally beaten for crimes he didn’t commit allows his heart to be consumed by darkness and lashes out against the system, destroying the very core of the government that oppressed him(…)
I had forgotten this part. It’s the only thing that keeps me from actually supporting my ideas for prison (I know how weird this last part sounded)
Chain gangs don’t exist any more, Ren. A controversial book and movie helped change that. The closest to that you get in the US any more is litter clean up crews.
That would also be productive, but they shouldn’t be forced to do extremely hard labour, especially if they’re not in for serious time; it would make more sense to make them learn some trade skillz and maybe get a high school degree, something they can use when they get out.
984: whip No talkin’…err, anyway, What movie is that?
The book was I Am a Fugitive from a Georgia Chain Gang! The movie it inspired was I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang.
A pitty, those were really effective in making people afraid of comitting crimes.
How effective as it? Do you have any facts and numbers to back you up? What about innocent people? Does enslaving them after convicting them wrongly make it right? Do harsher sentences make people commit fewer crimes? No. It just makes people more desperate when faced with getting caught, which might lead to more serious crimes.
Yeah. And they were an incredibly cruel form of punishment if you were put on one. The guy who did the Chain Gang book was WRONGLY CONVICTED and placed on a Georgia chain gang. Then there’s the fact that if prisons ran a road construction business, they could put all other road construction businesses out of business or be prone to not bid on a project due to corruption as somewhat evidenced in Shawshank Redemption.
I remember that project in which teen & adult people went to prison and spent 1 - 2 days there living like a real prisoner (but they didn’t mix up with real prisoners so there wasn’t any rape or fight). Interviewed for TV, some teens sais that after the experience, they were freaked out and afraid of doing anything that would take them back there as real prisoners.
I’m really making more philosophy than real sociology here, and as I said, I don’t support my own ideas since they can harm innocent people. They’re just my opinions and people may be glad I’m not in charge of such things.
So you hold opinions you don’t support. That makes a lot of sense. And I’d like to see that study. You know why? Because I’ve seen real studies done by a guy called Zimbardo in the states where he took college students and they might even have asked for the roles which they ended up taking (prisoner or guard) and the experiment was so bad that it was unehtical to let it run longer than it did (which was barely a few days). So I have doubts as to how true your thing is, esp since the volunteers are deprived of normal life for such a long duration.
Sin: Huh? That post didn’t make a whole lot of sense…clarify plz. And that Zebazabadobizabawhateva thing had something to do with the Mars test voyages i think (they put a bunch of people in a self-contained ship and see if they last for the year), but I could be wrong.
I don’t support my own opinions because they come from emotions, and I think reason must rule in such subjects. But you got me on this part, the experiment wasn’t really something right.
Funny- I’m not deterred by rape OR prison. I’m deterred for a couple of other reasons:
- I would not be a good criminal.
- I have no reason to commit crimes.
- I would not feel right if I committed certain crimes.
I would feel right and proud hitting some people in the head with a crown bar, and the only thing that keeps me from doing so is the fear of what might happen in prison.
Nope. It was done at Stanford I think. It was supposed to be a study on authority and doing what you believe your role demands of you.
And Ren, considering you feel that way , it shows that you don’t need extreme conditions to make people not want to go to prison.
Wow. Ren is much lower morally than I am (according to Kohlberg >_>).
Originally posted by Sinistral
[b]Nope. It was done at Stanford I think. It was supposed to be a study on authority and doing what you believe your role demands of you.
And Ren, considering you feel that way , it shows that you don’t need extreme conditions to make people not want to go to prison. [/b]
I consider nowadays conditions extreme. If it were just for the fights and being far from people I like I would willingfully have spent my teens in prison.
And cyber, you haven’t seen me going low yet =p