Homosexual guy up for bishop-hood (or whatever you call it)

Interesting.

Sorc’s gonna be a bishop! :yipee:

actually reads the article

Oh… nevermind. Thats really cool! 8D whistles innocently

Little update on it.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/04/gay.bishop/index.html

Yea, thats all anyone on the radio is talking about…people are worried it will split the church.

Well, due to a mistake I thought this priest was Catholic, however I’m still going to talk about the Catholic Church…

My own opinion is that the Catholic Church should get rid of the chastity rule for priests or let them get married, like ministers. That would probably weed out a lot of the child molesters, since a lot of men who become priests(not all, but a lot of them) are repressed homosexuals who end up doing something like molesting little kids because they can’t come to terms with their homosexuality, or whatever. In other words, an occupation that requires forced chastity is probably going to attract a lot of men who are already sexually disturbed. Should their be gay priests? I don’t know, that one’s a little tougher, but I think that as gays are accepted more and more into mainstream culture, the Church may have to follow suit to avoid appearing extremist. However it will lag a lot behind the rest of society when it comes to accepting gays.

Uh- Curtis… this is the Episcopalian Church- not the Catholic Church- they can have sex I believe.

Ugh, somehow my brain missed that very important detail. Well, I’ll reedit, but keep the second part of my post.

Also, I want to point out that religions will probably continue to lag a little behind mainstream culture when it comes to homosexuality, because I think that a lot of religious Christians(at least Catholicism thinks this, which is what I’m familiar with) (and Jews and Muslims) think the same thing about homosexuality: it should be tolerated(meaning no laws against it), but its wrong, and to embrace it would be wrong as well. In other words, a lot of religions see a homosexual like a person smoking themselves or drinking themselves to death: let them hurt themselves if they want, but don’t say its right or acceptable.

Originally posted by Curtis
My own opinion is that the Catholic Church should get rid of the chastity rule for priests or let them get married, like ministers. That would probably weed out a lot of the child molesters, since a lot of men who become priests(not all, but a lot of them) are repressed homosexuals who end up doing something like molesting little kids because they can’t come to terms with their homosexuality, or whatever. In other words, an occupation that requires forced chastity is probably going to attract a lot of men who are already sexually disturbed.

Do you think so? How many sexually disturbed men that you know want to be chaste? I think it would work in the opposite way, so that most men who considered the priesthood would be fairly stable and resolute. Maybe the media’s coverage of the Church’s ‘scandal’ has obscured the 98.2% of priests who haven’t even been accused, let alone proven guilty, of any misconduct ( source ). Keeping that in mind, is it reasonable to estimate that a large percentage of priests are homosexual? Knowing that the Church has never hesitated to condemn homosexual behavior? What homosexual would want to be a Catholic priest, unless he was devoted to being chaste?

Xwing1056

Yes, I think that an occupation that forces men to be chaste is going to attract a disproportionate amount of sexually disturbed men. Chastity doesn’t automatically cause or isn’t automatically a sign of sexual perversion, but in a lot of people it is/can be, especially when you’re dealing with chastity for life. Stable and resolute men? A stable and resolute man is one who is able to acknowledge his urges yet control them, not a man who pretends that they’re not there. Unfortunately, many priests are homosexuals who joined the priesthood to do precisely that.

A few years ago, Time magazine posted an article called the confession of Father X. I’m providing a link to a messageboard in which the article is posted(its at the very beginning of the thread).

http://forum.catholic-pages.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1378

Father X is only one man, and yet I could easily see how there are many, many men like Father X. Basically, Father X was gay, but he was ashamed of the fact. He thought that by joining the priesthood, he could somehow overcome what he considered to be the demon of his homosexuality, that his new spiritual relationship with god would somehow cleanse, that he could somehow find a noble purpose for his life, since he felt he could never live a normal life due to his homosexuality. Father X became a priest, and guess what? Not only was he still gay, but now he was a priest. Yes, there are some highly worthy men who join the priesthood. But there are also many, many men who join the priesthood because they’re ashamed of who they are, and because they think becoming a priest will somehow make them a better person.

You say that 98% of priests have never been accused of sexual molesting. First, how many children could have been molested, but haven’t come forward? The percentage of priests who have ACTUALLY molested children could be a lot higher than the percentage that have been accused of it. Second, who says that 2% of accused priests is a low figure? What’s the percentage for protestant ministers who’ve been accused? Jewish rabbis? Muslim imams? etc. 2% could be incredibly high when compared to other religions, and as I just mentioned the percentage of priests who have actually molested children, and not just been accused of it, is a lot higher.

Lastly, have you ever thought that some priests molest children simply because of the fact that they’re lonely? That they need some kind of affection that in their confusion they end up molesting some little kid? At the very least, priests should be allowed to marry.

I’m sure there are some men who can be strengthened by chastity, but most men aren’t this way, and by allowing priests to at the least get married, you could significantly decrease the amount of molestations. When you take an occupation like the priesthood, you’re going to attract some incredible individuals, but you’re also going to attract a disproportionate amount of fucked up individuals, and when we’re dealing with little kids being molested, you can’t afford to have that many fucked up individuals.

I would guess a homosexual who was very devout in his relationship with god would want to be a priest.

I also want to point out that in the article, when Father X is first accused, his superior sends him to a ‘program’ instead of booting him out of the priesthood. How many other priests were sent to programs after a first accusation, instead of losing their job?

Homosexual guy up for bishop-hood (or whatever you call it)
Whoa whoa whoa, nobody asked for your life story!

Me and my family talked about this a little bit, us being firm believers that homosexuality is a sin anyway. We dug up a little passage in 1 Corinthians that goes against it.

“No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (NKJV)

Now you don’t have to believe this, I’m not forcing anything upon you all, I just believe that if this guy who wanted to become a priest truely believed in God and was one of his followers that he would have read this passage of the bible and made his decision from there.

It’s just an opinion from a fellow Christian.

I think it’s wonderful that you’ve taken this opportunity to insult the Catholic church for its stance.
Sarcasm aside now, people aren’t interested in news about people doing good things and thus all you are left with is one look at what is going on. Therefor, do not make judgements unless you understand the full situation. I will not presume to know enough to comment on homosexuals being able to become priests in other denominations, but the Catholic Church’s stance is based on the idea that the sole purpose of sex is for reproduction, hence homosexuality is immoral, as is sodomy regardless of orientation. I’m sure that statement has offended a good number of people; that was not my intention. But it is better to say what you mean than pretend you mean something else.
I believe I’m done putting my foot in my mouth for now.

Demigod put it into words which I could have used.

Originally posted by Curtis
[b]Yes, I think that an occupation that forces men to be chaste is going to attract a disproportionate amount of sexually disturbed men. Chastity doesn’t automatically cause or isn’t automatically a sign of sexual perversion, but in a lot of people it is/can be, especially when you’re dealing with chastity for life. Stable and resolute men? A stable and resolute man is one who is able to acknowledge his urges yet control them, not a man who pretends that they’re not there. Unfortunately, many priests are homosexuals who joined the priesthood to do precisely that.

A few years ago, Time magazine posted an article called the confession of Father X. I’m providing a link to a messageboard in which the article is posted(its at the very beginning of the thread).

http://forum.catholic-pages.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1378

Father X is only one man, and yet I could easily see how there are many, many men like Father X. Basically, Father X was gay, but he was ashamed of the fact. He thought that by joining the priesthood, he could somehow overcome what he considered to be the demon of his homosexuality, that his new spiritual relationship with god would somehow cleanse, that he could somehow find a noble purpose for his life, since he felt he could never live a normal life due to his homosexuality. Father X became a priest, and guess what? Not only was he still gay, but now he was a priest. Yes, there are some highly worthy men who join the priesthood. But there are also many, many men who join the priesthood because they’re ashamed of who they are, and because they think becoming a priest will somehow make them a better person.

You say that 98% of priests have never been accused of sexual molesting. First, how many children could have been molested, but haven’t come forward? The percentage of priests who have ACTUALLY molested children could be a lot higher than the percentage that have been accused of it. Second, who says that 2% of accused priests is a low figure? What’s the percentage for protestant ministers who’ve been accused? Jewish rabbis? Muslim imams? etc. 2% could be incredibly high when compared to other religions, and as I just mentioned the percentage of priests who have actually molested children, and not just been accused of it, is a lot higher.

Lastly, have you ever thought that some priests molest children simply because of the fact that they’re lonely? That they need some kind of affection that in their confusion they end up molesting some little kid? At the very least, priests should be allowed to marry.

I’m sure there are some men who can be strengthened by chastity, but most men aren’t this way, and by allowing priests to at the least get married, you could significantly decrease the amount of molestations. When you take an occupation like the priesthood, you’re going to attract some incredible individuals, but you’re also going to attract a disproportionate amount of fucked up individuals, and when we’re dealing with little kids being molested, you can’t afford to have that many fucked up individuals. [/b]

After reading this, I’d have to say I wholly agree.

Therefor, do not make judgements unless you understand the full situation.

Who said we don’t understand the full situation? You? And what is it about the full situation that we just dont understand?

While your psychological analyses might be correct, I doubt they will do any good for convincing the catholic church. Psychology is a very new science, some might even go so far as to say a religion of sorts, and I’m sure the church has very little interest in what some psychologist has to say. And besides, the church expects a lot out of their ordained. In most countries, there are very few, if any, problems related to pedophilia or the like in the priesthood. Most incidents have been isolated in America. Perhaps instead of blasting the vow of chastity, you should be looking at what is so different in the American priesthood than from others for yours answers?

Originally posted by Orakio
[b]“No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (NKJV)[/b]

Not that I want to doubt your credibility, but I doubt that there was a special mention of homosexuals. Rather, it would mostly be “sodomites” (which is mentioned in the text), right? If the homosexual mention isn’t there, then it’s a whole other game. (For example, the homosexual that never got laid is not a sodomite per se, and thus can inherit the kingdom of God, though this is the kind of technicality that no one cares about, right Orak?)

Originally posted by Orakio
“No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> It just says that he won’t go to heaven himself. Not that he can’t help other people go to heaven.

Originally posted by Orakio
“(…)Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

That excludes about almost everybody on the surface of Earth. I think this is the passage that justifies the belief some people have that only 144,000 people out of 6,000,000,000 will enter heaven.