There were students in my english class who did research on this whole topic we’re discussing and apparently production stastics show that the sales in the music industry have gone UP in the last year or so. So yeah, downloading sources out there are actually good for advertising.
Originally posted by Tenchimaru_Draconis
[b]<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> Although the music on it is limited to your current location, which can be pretty annoying if you can’t stand pop music. It also doesn’t allow you to listen to certain songs when you want. And fine, suppose I spontaneously decide to buy all my music. I’d like you to find the actual CDs for sale, since most of them went out of print over a decade ago, or were only sold in a very limited edition.And getting this out of your system? That’s bullshit, you’ve posted the same thing at least 6 times before. Just go scream at a wall or something if you want to vent anger. [/b]
Sorry TD, I forgot to mention my exception. If the CDs you want are out of print, I feel they can be downloaded. I know I’ve mentioned my rant several other times. What I meant was that I was going to put out my entire argument out at once. Berore, I did it in bits an pieces.
Eva, I hate to break it to you but clothes and music are material things. They both have a lot of people people you get paid to produce their product. On this level, they can be compared equally. No offense against you personally, but I can’t stand people who have the “I know it’s stealing but I don’t care” attitude.
I definitely agree that the digital distribution of music has advantages. It’s just that most of the music is heard through illegal means.
We need iTunes in Europe. Fast.
Originally posted by BahamutXero
Eva, I hate to break it to you but clothes and music are material things. They both have a lot of people people you get paid to produce their product. On this level, they can be compared equally.
<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> No they can’t. While they both have certain costs (making the design, recording the music, etc), the end products can’t be compared. A lot of other costs go into the products when the basic thing is made, like shipping, storage, taxes, stuff like that. So when clothes are stolen, all the costs made to get that individual product in the store have been for nothing, so you literally stole something of monetary value then. However, with music, you’re not stealing the actual product. You’re stealing a digital copy of it. So the product is still in the stores, able to get purchased and all that, no costs lost. The only thing they have in common is that they both cost potential profits.
And I agree, we need iTunes. A service like that over here would kick much ass, and I definitely plan on signing up for something like it in a year or so (when I can get a credit card.)
Originally posted by Dragon God
[b]Instead of using Kazaa, why not buy the CD ?Thought of that ? Probably not, huh.
Is it so hard to shell maybe 15 - 20$ for a CD these days ? [/b]
Depends.
If I have to get up and go to Montreal, then, yes, it is, otherwise, no.
Because if I have to go to Montreal, I have to :
-Pay for my bus ticket (I have a bus pass, I know, but bear with me here) which is approx. 3$
-Pay for my subway ticket, which is 2,50$
-Pay for the CD in itself, which is 15 - 20$ (if not more because of the rarity of the CD)
-Come back.
It totals at approximately 26 -31 $ for ONE CD. That’s counting the fact that I am STILL jobless (supermarkets suck when it comes to jobs, especially when the job description does not actually describe the job)
Besides, when I want a CD, I buy it, when I want a song, I download it. I reward the people that make good products, and don’t reward those that make bad products. Isn’t that, ultimately, what economy is about?
Originally posted by Tenchimaru_Draconis
<img src=“http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/tenchimaru/td.gif”> No they can’t. While they both have certain costs (making the design, recording the music, etc), the end products can’t be compared. A lot of other costs go into the products when the basic thing is made, like shipping, storage, taxes, stuff like that. So when clothes are stolen, all the costs made to get that individual product in the store have been for nothing, so you literally stole something of monetary value then. However, with music, you’re not stealing the actual product. You’re stealing a digital copy of it. So the product is still in the stores, able to get purchased and all that, no costs lost. The only thing they have in common is that they both cost potential profits.
What you claim is 100% correct you are stealing a digital “copy” of the songs. It was the original person who shared the song that is the copyright infringer. Then again, you downloaded that song through someone who downloaded from the inintial infringer (you get the idea right?). In effect, you are willingly receiving stolen property. I don’t know how the laws are where you live but I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “possession is 9/10 of the law”.
However, you are stealing something of value. It’s called intellectual property, and it applies to music, software, formulas, blueprints, etc. See, the companies expect you to go to the store and buy the CD, not download them off the Internet. Of course the world isn’t made up of all good boys and girls…
Throws a lump of coal at TD
…and they lose the sale because some asshole desides, “Oh, lets start up a program that people and share music files and rip of the record indrustry.” In other words, they’d probaby have the sale if Kazaa any other of the file-sharing programs exist. I have no problem with the new subscription based Napster, or iTunes, because they actually have the legal responsibility to filter out copyrighted files.
Yes but it’s not like the record industry is suffering. If that were the case they wouldn’t waste so much money on lawsuits. I hate to fall back on such a lousy and lazy excuse, but like I said before, you can’t stop technology. Millions of people do it. Yes it doesn’t mean it’s right, but it’s <i>acceptable</i> and times are changing. People will always find a way around it. And if companies or whoever is in charge of the whole thing really wanted to stop it, why is there such a huge supply and demand of Cd burners and blank CD’s and all that hooplah? Surely there’s more money being generated there, correct? I know it’s the sentimental value being lost there, but that means absolutely nothing in this day and age.
I however wouldn’t mind paying a couple of bucks each month for a downloading service, because all that added up with millions of other people contributing is a huge amount of money. But like I said before, Kazaa and the like generates business and advertisement, and puts other manufacturing industries to good use. Where one corporation starts to lose it, another will thrive. That’s business.
What are you? A born-again consumer?
Originally posted by BahamutXero
If you don’t have the money to BUY your music, DON’T get it. It’s as simple as that. Have consciences people. You are effectively stealing.
To a degree, I can agree with that. However, I can’t go on forever without buying music, and if the prices never go down (and continue to go up as they are) then that becomes an impossibility. The obvious point is, why buy it when you can get it for free with little to no risk. Look at the lawsuits - they’ve come to a screeching halt.
[b]
Why don’t you just go to a clothing store and try to walk out with paying, why don’t you.[/b]
Well, see, that analogy doesn’t really work in this case; you can buy cheapo clothes or expensive clothes. You can’t buy cheapo CDs (unless it’s an underground band on a small label) because all CDs go through the RIAA which tacks on their outrageous price. For clothes, and most other products, there are a variety of brands and stores for you to purchase from - when it comes to music, there’s only one brand, and all the stores might as well be the same because there is no price difference.
[b]
I don’t want to hear the stupid “Oh, I don’t have the money for a CD that has only two good songs on it in my opinion” excuse. You don’t want to pay for it, don’t get it. Life’s not fair. Live with it.[/b]
If we don’t want to pay for it, so we don’t get it, then the artist looses his job because nobody goes to his shows, which is were all the money comes from. Why do you think bands are always on tour? Because that’s the only way they can make any money to pay off the recording debts. Life isn’t fair - and that’s quite true, however this is a corrupt system that needs to be changed. If the consumer does nothing about it, then we become a part of the corruption for not doing anything about it. If you’ve taken Economics, then you know that America runs on a Market driven system - the RIAA effectivly defeats the system by being a monopoly. (And the RIAA can’t be prosecuted for being a monopoly because legally it isn’t, however for all cares and concerns it really is).
[b]
Another popular excuse is “We don’t care about ripping off artists, they got too much money anyway.” I got news for you, you aren’t just hurting the artists, you are hurting every single person involved in making the CD. God, if I had the power to put all your asses in jail for theft I would.[/b]
While I don’t like that excuse, your answer is hardly fair at all. People don’t go to jail for stealing, they get community service, unless it’s your third strike, but if you’re stupid enough to get caught stealing on your third strike you should be in jail anyway.
[b]
Just in case you people don’t know, there’s a wonderful invention called the radio. It generate music very inexpensively.[/b]
That’s crap. Radio sucks: a)Censorship b)Songs often don’t play all the way through due to length (so a lot of good songs don’t get played at all) c)Shitty music gets played with good music, ad d) it’s hard to find a radio station that meets your needs. What if I only listened to techno? I’d be shit outta luck here in Atlanta, there are no techno/trance/party music stations at all.
Don’t have sympathy with the record industry. Like all corporations, they only care about making money, they only care about you only insofar as they can make more money off of you. It’s true that corporations are made up of employees who need money to support themselves and families, thus the need of the corporation itself to make money, but those employees don’t care about you either. And a disproportionate amount of money any corporation makes goes to a small percentage of people at the top.
“Another popular excuse is “We don’t care about ripping off artists, they got too much money anyway.” I got news for you, you aren’t just hurting the artists, you are hurting every single person involved in making the CD. God, if I had the power to put all your asses in jail for theft I would.”
Hey man, all those people who work on CDs don’t care about ripping you off, even the lowliest peons.
Sorc, you are exactly right about the lawsuits. There is little chance that you’ll be caught. However, just because you can download music for fee doesn’t mean you should.
You talk like CD’s are such a neccesity. Would it kill you to spend $20-$30 for a CD every now and then. You know there’s millions of people in the world who haven’t even heard music on a radio. You want something, BUY it, end of story.
Capitalism is what makes America great. If you call paying money for a CD corruption, God help you. Like I said before, there A LOT of people that work to make a CD. The costs of them just reflects that. The record company isn’t just one person jacking up prices to increase profits. They have to pay every person that works for them, right down to the guy that gets the manager’s coffee every morning.
Again, I have the exception of downoading things that are close to impossible to find or are not in production any more. If a songs fits either of the categories, go ahead knock yourselves out. I’d bet my life though that not every song on your hard drive or on a burned CD is out of production.
If you download music like crazy now, what’s next? You going to tell me you bootleg RPGs?
Originally posted by BahamutXero
If you download music like crazy now, what’s next? You going to tell me you bootleg RPGs?
No. Nobody here does.
hides ROMs
To some people, such as myself, CDs and music are a neccessity. I can honestly say that there is not a single point of the day, save for when I sleep, that I’m not listening to music or have a song in my head. I can’t afford to shell out $20 for every new I want that comes out - and I listen to a lot of different types of music, so a new CD that I could want comes out at least 3 a month. That’s $45 at the very least, and I can’t afford a kind of monthly tax like that.
Capitalisim is hardly what makes America great; I would say that capitalisim causes more problems for more people than other things. Capitalisim is what helps WalMart shut down long standing local buisnessess. Capitalisim is what lets the RIAA charge $20 for a CD. Capitalisim is what lets Microsoft buy out small companies ala WalMart, develop faulty software and make you buy upgrades. But that’s all part of the Market economy system. Sure, sometimes it sucks, but sometimes it’s great. This is one of those cases where it sucks. But hey, according to your logic life sucks and we should just get over it. Point is, we can do something about this, and we are, and it’s sort of breeding results. As a form of civil disobedience, p2p sharing is bringing about enormous results. Several recording labels have broken away from the RIAA and lowered their own prices, which benefits the consumer and benefits the artist and the company all at once. Without p2p sharing, this would probably have taken far longer to accomplish, or could have been outrightly impossible. In the long term, I honestly think music sharing is a good thing. In the short term however, it does have the potential to put a lot of promising artists out of buisness.
Bootlegging RPGs? Well, I have downloaded copies of Deus Ex and System Shock 2 on my computer, but Computer games are, in my opinion, a completly seperate issue.
Originally posted by Cybercompost
[b]No. Nobody here does.hides ROMs [/b]
You’re safe there CC :hahaha; . As long as your not using GBA or PS ones at least :fungah: .
Sorc, I respect the fact that you enjoy listening to music, but CDs are far from a necessity. That’s why there’s a MARKET for them. Food, shelter, etc. (basic needs) are are in part supported by the government so that people who can’t afford them can still get them (food stamps, Social Security, shelters, etc.) Show me a governmental program that gives out CDs. Like I said before, there are peple haven’t even listend to the, in your opinion “sensored” AKA crappy radio. Be thankful for what you got, your just sounding greedy.
If you don’t think the system in the U.S. is any good, move somewhere else and see how much your CD’s will cost.
But if it’s there, why shouldn’t I be greedy? If it’s there for me to have, why shouldn’t I have it?
Allow me to incorporate a quote from “Spiderman”.
With great power come great responsibility.
In other words, just because you have the means to do something (download music off the Internet), doesn’t mean you should (Yeah, you probably will never get caught, but it is STEALING).
The music’s mostly all there for you to have, OFF THE STORE SHELVES.
Like I said, I believe that in the long term p2p sharing is a good thing, as it induces change in the real industry and forces them to concede to the consumer, which is what they should be doing anyway.
So, if it’s there why shouldn’t I use it, if I don’t p2p share, then no change will occur, which will force me to continue to use the file sharing else I go broke trying to buy the CDs I want.
Oh, and there were more reasons to why radio is terrible, not just that they censor (but that is one of my chief complaints - if the music I listen too is explicit, and it’s censored on the radio, then I don’t want to listen too it.
If you read above, I have no problem with subscription services like Napster or iTunes. I wouldn’t have a problem with Kazaa et al. either except they lack one significant detail, THEY’RE FREE. Am I the only one on the planet that sees that it is right to pay for stuff?
Online distribution stores are a great idea. They would revolutionized the music industry. It’s just that there are so many illegal programs out there that they just wouldn’t be successful. If you feel that it’s going to drop prices so then you might think about buying CD’s agian, you’re probably right. However, that doesn’t mean you should do it.
From my point of view, I don’t think 20$ is too much to ask for about an hour and 20 minutes of music(assuming it’s chock full).
I buy the original VGM CDs simply out of respect for the artists out there. I put myself in their shoes… I wouldn’t be too thrilled by making a wonderful work of art, only to have it pirated and getting squat in return.
Originally posted by BahamutXero
You’re safe there CC :hahaha; . As long as your not using GBA or PS ones at least :fungah: .
Safe from who? You? What will you do anyway if they are PS or GBA?
Online music stores would not revolutionize the music industry in the slightest; they too would be corrupted by the RIAA, so there’s still no point to them at all.
Napster and iTunes are great, except that it’s still too damn pricey. 99 cents is still a bit for a song, and even then - all that money still goes to the RIAA.
If it causes change for the better in the system, then it is completly worth it. Think about it, by ripping off the artists now, we are in turn making them money whenever CD prices go down due to consumer demand. Now, when CD prices go down to a reasonable price, and people continue to rip off the artists, then yes, I’ll agree with you and take your side; however at $20 a pop almost no CD is worth it. The RIAA is only hurting themselves by keeping those prices where they are at the moment. If they don’t have the sight to see the problem, then they don’t deserve our support, and in turn deserve every bit of trouble we give them.
I don’t think you and I are on the same page - I am giving p2p sharing a moral reasoning by saying it induces change in the industry, which would benefit the company, the artist and the consumer all at once by encouraging record sales due to lower prices. While yes, I agree that we are stealing, we aren’t stealing blindly, at least I’m not.