Have You Ever Felt...

Hey Hades, people like different kinds of music :slight_smile:

What’s your point? That has nothing to do with metal’s relationship to art. I like metal.

Listen, a number of years back I gave in to my accumulating doubts and gave up Christianity. I’ll recommend to you what I’ve found to be comforting or truthful from my perspective, and maybe they’ll help you too.

I really recommend you read Plato’s Apology and Phaedo. They’re usually paired together in small booklets titled “The Trial and Death of Socrates” or somesuch. The “Phaedo” contains a particularly warm and fuzzy view of death, where Socrates describes death as either a transition to a different life where he’ll be able to converse with sages of times past, or a dreamless sleep. Socrates is a stepping stone into other schools of thought which preceeded the nonsense of Christianity, and though I find that none seems to encapsulate in their doctrines the world that I live in, each has a good idea somewhere along the line that might be useful learn.

What I see from a number of people is that their beliefs are based on their selfish desires, not what is. It might be that there is no afterlife, that there is nothing after you cease breathing, that your mind is nothing more than electric flying around in the human brain. For my part, everything I know of this universe and how it works suggests that in the end we die and rot in the ground, end of story. I do not find this disturbing. Rather than create fantasies with which to delude myself, I try to think of it as a natural part of the cosmos, in all nature’s awesome and at times horrible beauty. What I’m basically trying to say is that if you’re going to look for the meaning of life or reality, look for what is true, not what you want, since if what is true is not what you want, you’ll just end up disappointing yourself.

From what I’ve learned from talking to people, among some there’s an idea that the problem of human existence is death, and that is what philosophy seeks to address. And there’s no mistake, death is a problem. In all our 6000 years of human history that we have at least some knowledge of, name to me one person who has revealed to everyone a satisfactory explanation of death. Obviously, no one has, or we would not be talking about this right now!

Edit: Oh, and PS: Don’t look for others to give you the answers in the end. We’re all looking, although many seem to be content with papering the question of existence over with religion. In the end, the best any of us can do is guide and point each other in the right direction towards that final realization, if there is one to be had.

My point is that you like musictypeA. Some people think of musictypeA as art, and that’s awesome. Some people like musictypeB. Now, some of them also think of that as art (Because it is), and that’s also awesome.

You always just really come across as “My opinion is right and everything else sucks,” and that’s also exactly the way I am. But we don’t have the same opinion. :frowning:

But about that religion. My is it confusing sometimes

Christianity isn’t nonsense. Christianity isn’t even very broad. The human additions to it are nonsense. If you follow what Jesus alone said, you’ll find great value in it.

Ramza: I don’t really care what I come across as. I tell the truth as I see it, bottom line. Besides, there’s no musical conflict here. I LIKE metal, can’t you see?

Religion is a matter of saving the appearances: giving a title and a set of descriptive beliefs to what is experienced inwardly, in some (ideally) self-consistent way. The truth is not something you can learn from reading doctrine, unless perhaps you try to understand the spirit behind it. Look within. If you can’t experience the truth within yourself, there’s no point believing in it.

Isn’t ALL of Christianity just human additions? O_o Do we know every little thing Jesus said for sure?

Xwing: Hug me, you sexy being, you.

Hades: Well…yes and no. Problem is, what Jesus said was written down by a bunch of mere mortals wandering around the Mediterranean years after he was dead, and he was hardly the only Messiah to be casting out demons and raising the dead at the time, nor was that age the first in which there were such figures. I don’t deny that there is something one may glean from Christianity. In particular, at one point in…oh, the gospel of Matthew, I think it is, Pilate asks Jesus during his trial what the truth is, or something along those lines; rather than reply with words, Jesus just points to himself. This speaks volumes for the same “look within” idea Xwing mentioned. There’s something to be had from Christianity, but there’s more to be had elsewhere.

No. But we do know major things like the beattitudes, his parables, his “miracles” which are probably parables themselves, and about his relationship with God.

He also taught us one major lesson: That unconditional love is our number one priority. That we should never persecute someone or try to discern right from wrong because god alone will be the ultimate judge of things. The gospels in a nutshell say “Love thy neighbor.” For example, if they’re homosexual and homosexuality is wrong but we don’t know if it is, it’s best to let god deal with it and just love them regardless. If we succeed at love, we are united with God, who shows us the truth.

That is pretty much Christianity in it’s entirety. Does it not solve a lot when it’s not clouded by the church’s arbitrarily fabricated crap?

For a long time now, I’ve felt the reason that nobody or no group seems to have the big answer is because there isn’t one.

The meaning of life is what you yourself create it to be through your own action (or inaction) during that brief flicker of time while you’re around. Why? Well, either:

A) It’s all just a freak chemical accident anyway; chaotic universe with no hand rocking the cradle. You’re on your own and when you die, that’s it. Good luck.


B) Well, there’s no point in The Creator endowing us with Free Will and our capacity for abstract intelligence if He/She/They are going to just turn around and let us look at the answer sheet, is there? It’s like what Milton said about Actively Choosing the Good. Being obedient and following the Walkthru doesn’t count. You’ve got Free Will. A mind of your own. Figure it out yourself. That’s the added challenge of the human condition. The added frustration. And why we qualify for the greater potential reward. More to lose, more to gain.

That’s why we don’t know the answers. We’re not supposed to. Doesn’t it feel better when you beat the game on your own rather than printing out a walkthru and just unthinkingly doing everything in order off the checklist?

Why do you have to have sexy to be happy?
Why do you have to laugh to make you happy?


Because it makes a person feel content with themselves… Or so I heard…
I will shut up now :moonwalk:

I’ve always had that same stupid question. It usually involves some sort of discovering what the meaning of my life, and of course whenever it comes up, it never fails to depress the heck out of me. Seriously. The only thing I guess I’ve settled upon, since I’m tired of having such a complex question that I should worry about bother me, is that the meaning of my life is just to follow what God wants me to do with my life. I won’t be able to do that all the time, I’m sure. But that small little decision/ephiphany has spared me from a load of angst which is a very, very good thing.

I guess that’s my “truth” if you want to call it that. Then again, a 16 year old’s view on such a thing can’t be well-respected I realize.

Maybe the metal you listen to is created just to appeal to teenagers, like Rammstein yawn. But what about the bands that are in it for the music? The bands playing what they want, in the underground. underground meaning that they aren’t on mtv or other crap like that.

You have a point though, about the whole elitism thing… I think it’s fucking stupid too; those people seem to focus on status rather than skill and ability.

As an artist myself, I would have to say any form of expression that results in a product that can be looked at or listened too, that also provokes thoughts and/or feelings, is art. So therefore, by my definition, metal is an art.

To call music perfunctory is a tad closed-minded, I would say. Listen to classical music, and tell me that the composers who thought up all those masterpieces didn’t put any thought or feeling into it. Or emotion. Or conviction even!

To create something that’s pleasing to the ears can be easy at times, however to put the emotion and the energy into it is a different story. Metal is full of energy, maybe not too much on the emotion part… but, well let’s take a look at one of the bands you listed, also one of my favourite bands, Iron Maiden. Listen to their solos… their riffs… their harmonies! Those are chalk-full of emotion, there’s no denying that!

And as for your comment about black metal, well… it’s not for everyone, that’s for sure. I don’t expect the average person to be able to listen to that sort of music, because it is one of the most extreme forms of music in the world today.

GAP, I went thru a similar spiritual searching. I was raised Catholic, but eventually I realized that my family had chosen my faith for me, instead of I choosing it by myself. As I grew up, I had questions, that people around me either failed to explain or just told me not to ask. At one point I actually felt torn, because I wanted desperately to believe in what I was told, but couldn’t. In the end, I decided that people should determine their beliefs by themselves, instead of being served a list of concepts and being told to believe them all.

My advice for you is: don’t become so obsessed with finding The Truth that it interferes with living your Life. After all, what good would it be if you find The Truth but waste your life in the process? Most likely, you’ll come to your own conclusions as time passes.

Best wishes.

Well, mine is an odd case. My father is an atheist, and I’ve grown up hearing him say things like “Anybody that believes in God or a religion is a complete idiot” or “Jesus was a charlatan who wanted everyone to suffer” (you have to understand that his mother was part of an extreme cult-like evangelical Baptist group in Florida), which doesn’t really settle well with me.

RoguePaladinTrian: Wow, I read what you reccommended and I have to say that it was very eye opening. Do you have any further reading suggestions?

I was like this a while back but then I stopped being this way because unanswered questions really suck.So I stopped asking questions and just followed what was written down.There was actually a point when I stopped believing in God, then I went back to my old ways and read the bible.Who am I to doubt or question? I believe in a bit of everyting actually, buddism,cathalic,christianity, etc. All have one thing in common ‘God’ and Im just fine with that.

But there is still one thing that troubles me…do you remember when you used to play a game when you were little when one person whispers something to you and you say it to the next person and that person says it to another and so on? In the end whatever the person beginning the game said was completely changed into something else as it was passed around.Well my sentimens exactly with the bible.It a book right? But its storys were told over and over again by different people so my question is, if this occured than shouldnt it be changed accidently or something?And in the final version of the saying when it was written down, would it be differnent from its original content?I only ask this because the Bible was passed down for so many years.Correct me if Im wrong or something.If you dont understand what I mean its ok.Its complicated.

Well, to stay with the Greeks, there are a couple schools you can look into, all of which claim some inheritance from Socrates. Mind you, I’m not a philosophy major, so my knowledge of much of this is imperfect. I can only give you my impressions of what I’ve read, so you might find different things more valuable than I have.

Two of the schools that sprung up were the Stoics and the Epicureans. Each were concerned with living a happy life. I personally find the Stoics unsatisfying - they preach that you should accept your position in life where trying to change it will make you unhappy, but there’s really no guidelines for how you should even know what to accept and what you can change. Regardless, there is some worth in it to me since that idea of accepting what you can’t change can apply in some situations. What you’d want to read is The Handbook of Epictetus. You can find it filed under Philosophy or Self-Help.

Another school were the Epicureans, who also sought happiness, but did so differently. There’s a few things you can read here, but my favorite (which I still have not finished) is On the Nature of Things (Latin: De Rerum Naturem) by Lucretius, a Roman poet.

I can’t emphasize enough that I myself find neither of these two fully satisfying worldviews, but I do find something of worth in each.

There are also a number of philosophers who wrote or were active before Socrates, but we have only fragments of their works and words. I was unable to understand them without a good teacher, and I know myself to be inadequate in such a role. These earlier figures seem often to be mystics as well as philosophers, and that’s not insignificant. One in particular is fairly Jesus-like. Anyway, here the three most important, in my judgment, are: Parmenides, Heraclitus, Empedocles.

If you want a decent run-down of all these dead people, I recommend a good book by another dead person: The History of Western Thought by Bertrand Russell. It goes over a few thousand years of Western sages and saints, stating their main contributions and ideas. My only problem with it is that it leaves out the mystic qualities of the pre-Socratics (the ones I mentioned above). Still, it will at least make you aware of who who wrote and said what when.

I listed a few good metal bands to acknowledge that there are indeed bands in it for the music.

The problem with undergound is that people think the word is synonymous with skilled. When I say I like a band like The Killers, which I do, there will almost always be someone telling me they suck because they’re mainstream, even though they are highly skilled and outperform more than a few underground bands.

If you like a band, you should like them because they’re good. That’s why I don’t care for Green Day or The Misfits >_>;; They’re 9/10 reputation and 1/10 decent music.

That’s basically the way I feel, although, history doesn’t have to be written, to be changed according to one’s own agenda.

Ya, i think they should find all the original hebrew scrolls that were written down first, and then translate them(it might take a while, but who cares.)