What sacrifices have you made, MK?
Also, Obama kill Bin Laden, rawr.
If you’re not even going to consider the rest of the world while voting, then fuck you. 
lol
Twenty years of foreign policy experience over which he still never figured out that Czechoslovakia is not a real place. Twenty years of economic experience that, uh, was in no way notable.
We, kimosabe? You, maybe, the dude you’re talking to? Sorry, muthafucka has like seven houses, twenty cars, and a plane. He’s sacrificed being able to be having drunken sex with people who aren’t his wife all the time for only being able to do it some of the time, all for the great cause of killing people who look and/or think differently than him.
lol
If this reminds, remind them that it mostly had to do with how far behind in the polls he was and how his position was slipping. It’s a pretty good reason to consider someone an underdog. Right up there for if they are a dog wearing red spandex with a U on it.
Non! C’est impossible!
Is that the version of Straight Talk that passes by all the actual Straight Talk, instead only stopping at Bullshit Fillerville and Rhetorictown? Or is that the train that runs over the rights of lbgtq people? Because I think he sounded like the characteristic whistle of both of those trains.
Didn’t McCain vote for that flag desecration amendment, though?
Did I mention “lol”?
Just like you don’t have time to bother rethinking your positions after being confronted with evidence that you were completely wrong on the vice presidential candidate?
You keep saying how much experience McCain has in different areas, but I haven’t seen any ideas from his campaign that prove it translates into any idea of use in the present. Sooner or later you’re going to have to look back at the past eight years and realize that going “rar, terrists!” doesn’t make good financial, legal, or social policy.
Oh, and McCain’s repeatedly cited how having been part of the military and a prisoner of war helps qualify him to be commander-in-chief and make decisions about how to use the military. You might have ignored it all the times he’s said it because it’s the type of embarrassing stupidity that slides right out of view when you’re trying the hardest you can to hear what you want to instead of what was actually said, but if you pretend it hasn’t been part of his campaign you’re either an idiot or a damned liar.
I also don’t get the “everything we’ve sacrificed” for bit. I’ve sacrificed nothing in the last eight years. I’ve been stolen from repeatedly by the bad decisions of others, but I gave none of it willingly.
It’s a lasting characterstic of the American political system that was imported from the how British politics were back when America was formed. You’re right, intrinsic isn’t the right word - but it’s an unfortunate part of the system that’s a hard characteristic to get rid of.
I was talking about the American public as a whole; I’m more concerned with how we’re going to deal with national security. However, I think it’s a bit self-righteous of you to take your position. If Ireland was in a dire economic situation, that would probably take priority over foreign policy on how you choose your Prime Minister or who you elect to office, would it not? It’s not a matter of not being concerned with the rest of the world, it’s a matter of wishing to deal with domestic issues that are wreaking havoc on the populace first. It’s not an unreasonable position.
Andrew Sullivan is a very smart guy and he’s entitled to his opinion. He’s right that Sarah Palin should be doing more interviews and some of his accusations might be true. But it’s not like Biden doesn’t have his own issues. Why doesn’t anyone ever talk about some of the dishonest and misleading statements he’s made on the campaign trail.
Palin is less of an issue than she was a week ago anyway. Neither vice presidential nominee was even mentioned at the second debate because their moot points now. Obama’s not going to waste time attacking McCain’s judgment abou Palin because if he did so he would be making the same mistake McCain did. There’s no reason to focus on something that isn’t the major issue, especially if folks have already made their mind up about Palin.
The only thing I might admit is that with the eruption of the economy usurping Iraq and national security as the primary issues, Romney would have be an asset as a choice, but he would have had his own baggage as well. So, yes, while Palin has her own faults I’m sticking with the choice. I’m also noting that she was necessary; Romney wouldn’t have sealed up the base as well as she did at the RNC. That one speech accomplished everthing she needed to do, and the VP debate kept that glue together.
You keep saying how much experience McCain has in different areas, but I haven’t seen any ideas from his campaign that prove it translates into any idea of use in the present. Sooner or later you’re going to have to look back at the past eight years and realize that going “rar, terrists!” doesn’t make good financial, legal, or social policy.
The funny thing is, as McCain stated in the debate, Obama isn’t as fresh and new policy wise as you think. We had a windfall profits tax back when Carter was around and that drove the economy to become even worse. Hoover raised taxes duirng during the panic of 1929 and he’s been derided as a result. Yet, Obama wants to do both and we’re supposed to call it change.
But I’m glad you brought this up, because it’s why I was so annoyed last night about McCain’s performance. I think he did better than I first portrayed, but it’s true that he while he was articulating some policies in which he has a different stance than Bush and military policies that demonstrated Obama’s weakness in that area, he didn’t connect with the people. He seemed aloof, sometimes condescending, and Obama seemed practical. The substance doesn’t even matter if you can’t connect with the people.
I recently watched the same format being used back in 2000 when Gore and Bush were running and Bush connected with the people. People trusted him because he seemed connect with them and he gave an aura of honesty. If you don’t have that, then the substance is forgotten.
Oh, and McCain’s repeatedly cited how having been part of the military and a prisoner of war helps qualify him to be commander-in-chief and make decisions about how to use the military. You might have ignored it all the times he’s said it because it’s the type of embarrassing stupidity that slides right out of view when you’re trying the hardest you can to hear what you want to instead of what was actually said, but if you pretend it hasn’t been part of his campaign you’re either an idiot or a damned liar.
My parents taught me a phrase they learned from their time in the Navy; when you make assumptions, you make an ass out of yourself.
From your own words, it helps qualify him to be commander-in-chief, it’s not what we should use as a primary reason for supporting him. His RNC speech puts it in the best of terms; his willingness to give all he can for his love of country and the adversity he endured in the name of his country demonstrates how devoted he is to the American people. Obama’s been milking his experience as a community organizer as well. That’s certainly admirable and demonstrates his willingness to fulfill his civic duty. I don’t see why it’s so atrocious for McCain to state that his time in the military and his POW status helped him to recognize what true patriotism is if Obama can use his status as a community organizer to demonstrate the same principle. I don’t see how you can pick out the POW status like it’s sole qualification when in the debates McCain himself as being hitting on his experience, his record of bipartisanship, his independence in the Senate, and the tough choices he’s made even against the interests of his party. There’s a lot more there than you seem to be aware of, but I’d be glad to inform you of what the man has besides the narrative.
If his narrative doesn’t connect with you fine, just don’t assume you know what I’ve ignored or whether I’m an idiot or a liar. I think you’re positions are wrong or that your mistaken when it comes to certain policies, but I don’t think your a stupid person because of your positions. I’d appreciate it if you showed the same degree of respect.
I mean, it’s not like this is the first time we’ve taken one’s call to service as playing a role in how devoted they are to the idea of civic duty. Obama’s been milking his experience as a community organizer as well. That’s certainly admirable and demonstrates his willingness to fulfill his civic duty. I don’t see why it’s so atrocious for McCain to state that his time in the military and his POW status helped him to recognize what true patriotism is if Obama can use his status as a community organizer to demonstrate the same principle.
I also don’t get the “everything we’ve sacrificed” for bit. I’ve sacrificed nothing in the last eight years. I’ve been stolen from repeatedly by the bad decisions of others, but I gave none of it willingly.
That’s one of the greatest mistakes of the Bush Administration, that so many people haven’t sacrificed something in this war. Most folks have gone around living the same way they always have.
“Go shop.” Psh.
No, not really. I’ve been in that situation, as that was what was clearly going to happen in the last election (not that the political parties wanted to admit it). I thought “Hey, the world is far too connected to just vote for a party that will focus on solely Irish problems. In fact, most problems come from parties who follow that policy.” So I tried to find the parties with the most long term goals I agreed with.
Didn’t work out quite as planned, but oh well. Stuck by my principles.
Yeah, everyone should have lost a father, mother, cousin, uncle, brother or sister to a war that was started on complete lies and fabricated intel.
If the administration had kept themselves to Afghanistan and the actual tangible threat instead of spreading themselves thin in a bogged serie of conflicts they cannot win, then they might still be worth some respect for their military organisation and application. As it stands? Nada.
Send your own family, friends and loved ones to the grinder before you want to push the ones of others.
What should we have done? All enlisted? What sacrifices should we have made? Don’t speak of it in nebulous terms; give actual examples of what sacrifices the Average American should have made.
dodge dodge dodge.
Notice how instead of simply saying “I’m fine with having a dirty liar as my VP candidate of choice” (which is implied by your absolute refusal to deal with the specific lies of Palin) you instead changed the subject. I’m taking the time to explain this since I wonder if you’re even conscious of doing it. Also notice the implications of arguing that the VP exists only to rally the base regardless of whether what he/she says bears any relation to reality. Then you go on to ask for substance from McCain. You are arguing, mere paragraphs apart, that actual policy and action don’t matter, and then that they do matter.
The funny thing is, as McCain stated in the debate, Obama isn’t as fresh and new policy wise as you think.
There is a difference between policy and experience. Your argument is that McCain’s experience qualifies him where Obama’s inexperience should raise doubts. I disagree with this because McCain’s policy record leads me to believe he’s not going to protect basic Constitutional rights the Bush administration’s run roughshod over, institute a relatively sane economic policy, and make decent decisions as to how to use (or, heaven forbid!, for once not use it). We can discuss each of those areas in particulars if you like. The point is that McCain’s experience in these areas haven’t produced policies from him that I’m willing to support. Obama, on the other hand, has - although as you might guess I’m cynical about his approach on a number of things. Not every policy has to be a grand new idea invented yesterday. Old ideas applied intelligently might not be bad. The idea of habeas corpus is a nice old one I think Obama’s more likely to resurrect than McCain, despite McCain’s vaunted experience being highly relevant to. They can be old, moldy policies, and provided they aren’t the ones in now (like stated intention of launching pre-emptive wars, evidence be damned), they could be an improvement.
The substance doesn’t even matter if you can’t connect with the people.
The substance always matters and always has consequences. Perhaps substance would even get more screen time if candidates spent less time kissing babies and making empty, misleading statements. Like floating an idea to buy all the mortgages in the country. Honestly. There’s a difference between a candidate’s electability and their suitability to be president. Sadly, the two measures are currently very far apart. You seem more concerned with the first at the expense of the second.
My parents taught me a phrase they learned from their time in the Navy; when you make assumptions, you make an ass out of yourself.
Oh yeah? My grandparents taught me a phrase too. It’s Polish, so I’m going to try to reproduce it in phonetics: “Dime-yeh pansch doe-lahty.” It should mean “can I have $5?” and is at least as relevant to this thread as your parents’ phrase.
McCain uses the POW schtick as a way of illustrating his ability to command the military relative to Obama. Problem is, it’s irrelevant to the role of administration. That’s why I criticize it. Not because he claims it helped him realize his inner patriot. Patriotism is cheap. Everyone claims to have it. Plenty of them are horrible at making decisions or even thinking.
Actually, when you make assumptions, you make an ass out of u and mptions. The correct platitude is “when you assume,” not “when you make assumptions.”
Just sayin’
This statement is loaded with so much meaning, its a fucking gold mine. I honestly had to pause for a second to collect my thoughts. Holy shit.
Firstly, what did YOU sacrifice for the Iraq war and was it of any substance? For all your support of the administrations’ ridiculous policies, why haven’t you enlisted? I remember a while back we had a discussion on this topic and you just as inelegantly dodged the topic as you do everything else , like the majority of this thread. That is probably something fundamentally ironic because the running hypothesis (and betting pool) is that you are really fat and that’s what stopped you from serving (or at least served as the excuse not to serve), in which case, you’d have difficulty dodging anything. You’re just as bad as the people you are blaming because the most you’ve done is sit and talk to people on the internet. Keep it up.
I agree with you on 1 thing: the ridiculous consumerism of our society. However, my reaction is different from yours because I don’t bother deluding myself in the power of humanity and all that shit we hear about all the time in RPGs. I realize that society is a mob and all you need to do is throw enough Paris Hilton in their direction to keep em busy as long as the economy is kosher. The only reason anyone gives a shit in this election is because the oil spiked at 150 over the summer and the economy went to shit. People only care about anything once it starts to affect them. The only reason that the Iraq war happened wasn’t because the US citizens believed that it was the right thing to do but because it didn’t affect them and so they didn’t have a reason to give a shit. The US citizens would’ve reacted VERY differently if they had had to pay for it.
And seriously, what SHOULD they have sacrificed? How is it that you know what they should’ve done and who are you to decide that they should do it? Be sure to justify your rationale.
Honestly, what the fuck did you expect? Its like when you walked into that republican convention and everyone ignored you and you felt all awkward about it afterwards. You need to get with the fucking program and realize that the world doesn’t work like your little fantasy universe in your head.
Firstly, what did YOU sacrifice for the Iraq war and was it of any substance? For all your support of the administrations’ ridiculous policies, why haven’t you enlisted? I remember a while back we had a discussion on this topic and you just as inelegantly dodged the topic as you do everything else , like the majority of this thread. That is probably something fundamentally ironic because the running hypothesis (and betting pool) is that you are really fat and that’s what stopped you from serving (or at least served as the excuse not to serve), in which case, you’d have difficulty dodging anything. You’re just as bad as the people you are blaming because the most you’ve done is sit and talk to people on the internet. Keep it up.
Really? You know what, I find that to be so hilariously wrong, I’ll let you keep on thinking whatever you wish about why I can’t enlist. It’s always nice to hear your self-righteous tone though. You do have a talent for insults, I’ll give you that.
That talent and that total disregard for moderation of how you regard me is why whenever you or anyone else asks me what I’ve sacrificied or why I can’t enlist I’ll say this; to the first question, more than most and to the second, none of your damn business.
President Bush should have told us that we were all going to have to sacrifice in some way for the security of our nation. He should have come out after Wall Street began to come back in full force and said, “I understand my tax cuts were necessary because the markets were uncertain and we were all traumatized as a result of of 9/11, but now that the markets have rebounded, I’m calling for my tax cuts to be revoked so we can begin to pay for this war and the health care of our brave soldiers in a responsible manner. I’m doing this so we can outfit our troops with the best equipment possible and for the benefit of the nation.” Before 2008, the economy had been through an expansionary period; we should have used some of our prosperity towards that noble
I’m not repeating Biden’s line that taxation is patriotism or anything like that, but as much as I hate taxes, I hated seeing how bad the conditions at Walter Reed were more. I hated having to walk down the halls of a VA hospital that was ranked the worst in the nation when these people deserve the best. But most importantly, I hate how little anyone cares anymore.
There was a time when this war had a face. I remember when every day, at the end of every national broadcast, we had the story of someone who had died fighting for the country on our screen and people cared because they were aware of what was going on. As the years have gone by, we’ve gotten statistics instead of stories; statistics that everyone uses to prove a point that coincides with their political leanings instead of recognizing just how much we’ve given to this damn war and having real respect for that. Iraq is a political affair that most Americans have just become detached from and that’s unacceptable.
I’m not going to say that I’m smart enough to know everything that could’ve been done, but I do know that there’s one thing people do remember and that’s their pocketbook. The economy will make anyone lose all sense of reason. So make them pay in some way. Tell the people to go out and do whatever they can to get involved, to sacrifice in recognition of the greater sacrificies that war demands. You don’t tell me to go shop.
When your not freeloading, you typically pay more attention to what’s going on.
Maybe if we were all actually paying in some way for the war in Afghanistan we would’ve had a bit more incentive to be more involved in the discussion of whether or not we should’ve invaded Iraq. Maybe we wouldn’t have gone in so quickly and without a efficient post-war occupation strategy to guide us through the months and then years afterward. Maybe if we had been more involved, unilateral decisions by diplomats like Paul Bremer wouldn’t have resulted in the insurgency becoming as large a problem as it did.
It’s not a matter of everyone going to enlist, it’s a matter of everyone in the nation having some recognition of how much we are sacrificing and actually caring. I wish the American people had all given something, something more than what some of us have.
NO ONE ever cared to begin with. If they did, none of this wouldn’t have happened to begin with! If people “caring” had stopped Bremer’s incompetence, it would’ve stopped the incompetence of many other officials. In the mean time, “people caring” translated to them being unpatriotic or worse, labeled as traitors; people like Valerie Plame’s husband. Don’t forget that those responsible were pardoned and forgotten.
Your entire talk about sacrifice is a pile of meaningless garbage you can’t substantiate or provide even a single example of. The people that did sacrifice were crushed and forgotten. You’re just conveniently forgetting, just like the rest of this decadent society you are being so critical of.
The reason we’re in the economic mess we’re in is BECAUSE of free-loading on a MASSIVE scale.
Your calling me self-righteous reeks of hypocrisy.
Just throwing this out there, but when people criticize others for not enlisting and sacrificing for the war, it is only a small part. There are other ways citizens have sacrificed during wars. In previous wars, taxes went up (to pay for the wars) and certain materials were rationed since they were needed overseas. Lets not forget the draft since it brought the war closer to home also in that regardless of if you enlisted, you could still be called to go over, and as the war dragged on, the chances getting drafted increased. Hell, if you read the book Band of Brothers, it says that a lot of them joined sine they wanted more freedom and options when they served and wanted to do something more elite since they were pretty sure that they were going to be drafted anyway. As it stands, there isn’t much of an affect on the local populace. Families are affected, but it is a small part of the population. I’m mostly just saying that sacrificing has traditionally been more than just serving.
Also, a quick way of saying why Obama is probably a better choice. Things are pretty fucked up right now, largely because of Bush, and McCain will do more things like Bush (as shown by his record). Obama’s changes may not be favorable by many, but his changes at least have a chance of fixing things since the course we’re on right now sure isn’t working.
EDIT: I find it funny how Republicans always claim how they support the military so much, but after starting the technical/computer part of Field Artillery, I’d beg to differ. We have so few computers, and the ones we do have are slow or broken. Yeah, they’ve really kept up with the support. Keep in mind that this is the officer course (there are many more enlisted than officers, usually about 40 enlisted to 1 officer) and we still don’t have enough, so it is hard to imagine how bad it must be on the enlisted side.
Honestly, what the fuck did you expect? Its like when you walked into that republican convention and everyone ignored you and you felt all awkward about it afterwards. You need to get with the fucking program and realize that the world doesn’t work like your little fantasy universe in your head.
This is interesting. I remember when I made that topic. I didn’t feel awkward, I felt disappointed and from what I saw, most people were. I got my motion passed at the district level and was proud of that, but no one got any motion passed at the senatorial level of the convention in my area. It was quite obvious that the Platform Committee was quite satisfied with their version of the Platform and took advantage of a motion to end debate not on the issue which we were currently debating, but to end the entire convention at that level. There were more than a few people who hollered about that.
But that’s not what’s interesting. What’s interesting is how I intepreted what your saying, which is that there’s really no reason to get involved because you can’t expect much from this system. In that case, you’re just as bad as Hades and just as apathetic. you talk about how bad the system is and think so lowly of me when you don’t get involved and try to do something yourself. No, I don’t think I live in a fantasy universe because I want to make this nation better by any means possible. I think you live in a universe where you can not do anything to make our political system better and have the audacity to be self-righteous about it.
I might have adopted the same apathy you seem to appreciate so much if I had not attended the State Convention on my own dime between summer classes. I was reminded of why we should all get involved. There are people not just in the Republican Party, but everywhere, who truly want to make this country better. The Republican Party’s base isn’t rich people who have no concern for the middle-class American. The Republican Party consists of the middle-class American people. I’m not foolish enough to think it’s not the same way with the Democrats either. Despite our disagreements, everyone involved wanted to help, wanted to sacrifice in some way for our nation and for those who will come after us. Being with those people, hearing from them and how long they’ve been trying to better this country and how long they’ve been involved, reminded me that getting involved is a part of our civic duty. To forsake it is to forget what others have sacrificied so we can enjoy the freedom we have. That week I spent with those people was one of the best experiences of my entire life.
The universe I live in consists of those kind of people. It’s occupied by those who actually believe it’s our duty to work towards making this country better. If you don’t want to be a part of that and if you want to raise your nose at something so distinctly American as the belief we can leave this place better than we found it that’s fine. Just don’t act like your better than others for it.
Raising taxes, though, isn’t asking us to make sacrifices. It’s forcing people to make “sacrifices.” There’s a distinct difference there that often gets wrapped up in the flag, but it’s very crucial. It would be one thing to force people to take a hit in the event of a Just War, as in one where we were attacked, such as World War II or Afghanistan had it properly escalated. It’s another to force a change in lifestyle when the war was never a huge hit in the first place (what was the original approval? Around 60%?) that has not been approved of since at least 2005, probably earlier.
I was initially in favor of Iraq. I make no apologies for it. I don’t even care about the lack of WMDs; that is immaterial to me. My tune changed, though, as my views of international law and its… Unfairness developed, as my opinion on the role of the US in global politics took a turn for the radical. I do not like being “asked” to make sacrifices, let alone be FORCED to sacrifice, for a war whose very nature I disagree with.
Besides, I think the now $9 to $13 trillion (I get conflicting data) in debt that will have to be repaid in the future is sacrifice enough.
Congratulations on ignoring my destroying your entire argument about no one having sacrificed anything.
Also congratulations on completely ignoring what it was that I said and making up completely random shit about something I said to serve your purposes. No wonder you love the administration.
Its also amazing how you can admit that I was right that you ignore reality since the people you think populate society are the people you think are in the convention, of which neither is true! Its comparable to how you make shit up about what I say to make yourself feel better. Where the fuck do you even get that I’m apathetic about anything?
Sounds like you have a powerful coping mechanism.
If that’s true, are you okay living in a society like that? Are you resigned to living in a society where we can go to war and no one cares? There’s nothing in you, there’s nothing that drives you to do something that will make certain that we don’t make that same mistake again?
You’re a scientist aren’t you? Isn’t it your job to investigate things, to inquire and find answers about how things come to be and what comprises them? Well, it’s my duty as a citizen to find out what’s wrong with our society and what’s wrong with our government and do all I can to fix it. It’s my job to know why Scooter Libby was pardoned and why Karl Rove won’t go before Congress. It’s my job to ensure that we aren’t embarrased by this kind of affair again. But I can’t do that if the people don’t care, but if we inform the people about what’s going on, they will care.
Raising taxes, though, isn’t asking us to make sacrifices. It’s forcing people to make “sacrifices.” There’s a distinct difference there that often gets wrapped up in the flag, but it’s very crucial. It would be one thing to force people to take a hit in the event of a Just War, as in one where we were attacked, such as World War II or Afghanistan had it properly escalated. It’s another to force a change in lifestyle when the war was never a huge hit in the first place (what was the original approval? Around 60%?) that has not been approved of since at least 2005, probably earlier.
I was initially in favor of Iraq. I make no apologies for it. I don’t even care about the lack of WMDs; that is immaterial to me. My tune changed, though, as my views of international law and its… Unfairness developed, as my opinion on the role of the US in global politics took a turn for the radical. I do not like being “asked” to make sacrifices, let alone be FORCED to sacrifice, for a war whose very nature I disagree with.
Exactly. That’s my point. If your paying for something, you expect competency and you expect accountability in the absence of efficiency. You should have been forced to help pay for the war and so should every American. We all should have carried a part of the burden because then we all would have been paying a lot more attention to what was going on than we were before. Maybe, the Administration wouldn’t have made so many mistakes had they had the eyes of Americans like you who felt we were being forced to sacrifice.
Let’s say you don’t want to be informed. Let’s say I’m as naive as people say about this whole civic duty business. Well, you will care once you’re taxes go up. The price of war is steeper than any money you’ve got. If the American people are told that they’ll have to pay for a war, they might think twice about waging it in the first place. At the very least, they’ll be making sure there’s more accountability in the way it’s waged.
Make them pay for your mistakes?
I knew that Bush’s justification for the war was bogus almost from the start. It’s not like it was a great secret – even then, much of the information was already available for anyone who wanted to know. The “Niger uranium” story, for instance, was known to be a forgery long before it became a big talking point. I fervently wished that there would be a debate about it, but there wasn’t – and it was people like you who didn’t want one. You’re the one who was “uninformed.” Why should I have to “sacrifice” for your error?
I don’t owe Bush anything. It’s bad enough that I have to live with the results of his policies, and get paid in a debased currency that runs on perpetual debt, thus greatly jeopardizing my finances. For what it’s worth, I think it’s probably true that the war may not have occurred if people understood the economic costs, which is exactly why the Bush administration deliberately lied about those costs. I also think it’s true that raising taxes is a better way to pay for things than going into debt. But I very strongly resent the notion that I should have some kind of moral obligation to “pay in some way,” only because it has just now, finally, dawned on you that “we” didn’t pay enough attention to the war. No, actually “we” had been paying attention, “you” just didn’t listen.
You remember the last time we did this, you locked the thread? I mean, I understand the concept of “suffering into truth” and I love posting here, but if your going to do that again, Sin, you might as well do it now or just tell me ahead of time.
I’d really actually like to examine the debates and the campaigns in a critical fashion. SK, you, and I, are not going to have a meeting of the minds. There is no epiphany in the works. This is all for show. If this is another regurgitation of a “Mullen is a naive, foolish person with stupid political views and a stupid view of the world” argument, I can have fun with that, but if it’s going to keep us from actually talking about what’s going on in the campaign and make you lock it then I’d rather pass.
What argument? This argument?
Your entire talk about sacrifice is a pile of meaningless garbage you can’t substantiate or provide even a single example of. The people that did sacrifice were crushed and forgotten. You’re just conveniently forgetting, just like the rest of this decadent society you are being so critical of.
I think I did you a favor by ignoring that argument. It’s incoherent and weak. I honestly didn’t know what part of my argument you were talking about since you seemed more entertained with yourself by insulting me rather than actually saying anything of substance. If you were referring to substantiating the sacrificies I’ve made, well, I’ve already answered your question. It’s none of your damn business. I have no desire to tell someone like your who would only find someone way to mock me no matter how inapproriate it is. You hardly seem to be the type of person to respect or understand the meaning of sensitivity, so I hardly seem to understand why I should divulge that kind of information to someone like you.
The people who sacrificied were crushed and forgotten? Yeah, if that’s your sentiment it’s really none of your business. I haven’t forgotten them, maybe you have and if society has, that’s an even bigger reason why we should do something to remind them just how much we’ve sacrificed. The easiest way to do that is to let them carry some of the burden.
Also congratulations on completely ignoring what it was that I said and making up completely random shit about something I said to serve your purposes. No wonder you love the administration.
Your not being specific again, so it’s kind of hard to refute you. If your talking about my claim that your an apathetic individual who doesn’t really see the point in getting involved in the political process I stand by the comment. You have expressed that position, multiple times in earlier threads. I remember it explicitly. You make assumptions about me to serve your own purposes so I see no harm in interpreting your statements. If you wish to express your opinion and correct me, your welcome to do so.
Its also amazing how you can admit that I was right that you ignore reality since the people you think populate society are the people you think are in the convention, of which neither is true! Its comparable to how you make shit up about what I say to make yourself feel better. Where the fuck do you even get that I’m apathetic about anything?
Those people who went to the convention do populate society. That’s…a pretty simple thing to understand. If they didn’t populate American society they wouldn’t be eligible to be there, would they? If it’s easier for you to believe they don’t and accept your version of your reality, that’s fine.
Do you care at all about the state of the country? Have you done anything to make it better? If you haven’t, you might as well be apathetic. You stated that I shouldn’t have expected anything when I tried to get involved, so I took that to mean you believe there’s no reason to get involved. If you wanted to correct me on it go ahead and do so. It’s just consistent with everything I’ve ever read from you. You’ve always seemed to be this apathetic person who didn’t really give a damn about anything - that’s just my impression based on what you usually say.