Election 2008; Mcain/Palin and Obama/Biden

I don’t think that’s fair at all; some folks have more important things to worry about than politics at times. Just because they don’t juggle all this information while their worrying about their mortgage and their families doesn’t mean their stupid…

If you can’t be arsed to remember backwards an entire day to where you said my assertions and suspicions have no basis, I’m not going to be arsed to quote it in the reply. I’ll quote myself again from elsewhere, though.

As for American stupidity, they voted for Bush twice and can’t handle basic science after 150 years.

In a temporal slip, a reply to the next post: If after I quoted the same thing twice you hear a great whooshing sound, that was the point going by.

Okay…so? I do remember when I said that. I probably sincerely thought it was true at the time. Quoting yourself again isn’t going to change my opinion.

Oh, now I’m beginning to understand. Your gauge on American stupidity is based on your political persuasion. That’s all I need to know.

Which is ironic because if they became slightly educated about politics they might get a grasp on who’s policies will actually help them worry less about their mortgages and their families.

OMG!!! HE’S NOT REPUBLICAN!!! NOW I CAN DISMISS EVERYTHING HE SAYS ON EVERY TOPIC EVER EVEN THOUGH HE’S PROVED HIS COMMENTS TO HAVE MORE BASIS THAN MANY OF MINE!!! YAY!!!

Seriously. After he’s gone and shown you that his suspicions are based on fact you just find some other reason to dismiss him. Lovely.

Then again, American’s have a long history of voting in favor of who they dream of being, rather than who they are right now. Part of the American dream is rising far above where you started, and most people seem as though they’d rather enjoy it when they get there than have an easier time on the way.

I’d rather vote for someone who can help me achieve what I want to achieve rather then live vicariously though their achievements, and to do that I have to have an understanding on what they stand for.

But what do I know, I’m just a bleeding heart liberal who smokes pot and thinks that gay people should be allowed to marry each other.

That’s not what I meant. It’s not the fact that he’s not a Republican. It’s the fact that he’s basing the stupidity of America on the fact that they elected someone he doesn’t agree with. That’s insulting and it makes the claim that all those people who did support Bush, somehow, are less educated than he is just because they don’t believe in the same policies he does. That’s elitism.

You ignore the part about him mentioning basic science.

Stop ignoring entire posts because you happen not to agree with everything said.

Also, remember, sometimes people can be glib. That means they’re not super-serial every time they say something, or can maybe have more than that to base it on.

And besides, voting Bush in a second time was a stupid thing to do. Looking over the last four years, I don’t see how you can still be arguing about that.

When I accuse the American people of being stupid, I target their intelligence, not their education. Also, I am elitist in the respect that I do believe I’m smarter than a great many people and that a great many people are stupid (although there are non-stupid people who aren’t as intelligent as I am, if that helps, and many people explosively moreso).

Ignoring hindsight not available in 2004, looking over his first four years I don’t see how you can argue that. Anti-intellectualism, mindless, empty nationalism (including the yearly mass circle-jerk into the ruins at Ground Zero), xenophobia, torture, wars launched on lies, and massive debt and government expansion that trample on our Constitutional freedoms. Some people forgive those things when it’s their people doing it and not when it’s the other party in power.

Plus, I assure you I believe that the American people are stupid for many other reasons that political. That’s merely the area where a collective lack of mental horsepower offers its direst effects. Believe that God wants the gay couple next door to burn in hell for eternity? Capital! Use the government to enforce laws against the gay couple next door because you don’t want to offend God? Now we’ve a problem.

I didn’t ignore his entire post I criticized a portion of it did I not? This would have been difficult had I ignored the content of his post, right?

This is a serious conversation. No one should be glib and honestly, I’m just tired of people (especially outside of the States) decrying how horrible America is or how stupid we are for electing Bush. Listen, Bush won in 2004 not because the Amerian people are “stupid” but because John Kerry ran an inept campaign that didn’t react in a timely fashion to attacks from 527 organizations and honestly, he simply wasn’t a good candidate. He didn’t sell himself to the American people. If the Democrats had gotten their act together rather than run strictly for the most viable candidate they would have a good chance of winning. Heck, Howard Dean had a better chance than Kerry in hindsight, the Dean campaign actually knew how to innovate on the internet and such.

That’s why the Democrats lost, not because we’re stupid but because the Democrats failed to appeal effectively to the American public. There, done.

As sad as it is I do have to partly agree with Mullenkamp on one thing. Kerry REALLY dropped that ball back in 04’ (and hard).

Yeah, not glib like slandering a Vietnam veteran while his opponent had served in Texas (and propping up another Vietnam veteran with a rich wife as his successor), not glibly suggesting wars should be started under flimsy pretexts, not glibly looking over facts in favor of perceptions, not glibly tolerating lies as a strategy for a presidential election. Or glibly throwing around elitist accusations.

And on a tangent, faith-based politics aren’t Christian. If we go by the New Testament, the whole message of love seems to have flown over these “values voters’” heads. Old Testament? You shall not murder, Neither shall you commit adultery (rape, more specifically), Neither shall you steal, Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour, not covet thy neighbour’s house have been disregarded by the Iraq war alone.

The Democrats are a long way from perfect, but compared to the big bubble of irrationality that the Republicans have been projecting, it’d be nice having someone sensible in the White House even when it turns out you’ll disagree with their policies too (what with having different interests and all).

To the vice-presidential debate for a moment: did it exceed anyone’s expectations? Palin gave some extremely canned answers and dodged questions, made free with insultingly simplistic small townisms (doggonit!), and generally got away with a lot of shallow pandering. Her brains didn’t leak out her ears, though, and given that’s the standard that’s been set for her, she at least didn’t do any new damage to McCain and probably attracted a few people given to liking talking points.

Biden was weak. There are many things he could and should have gone after: McCain’s campaign manager taking money from either Fannie/Freddie May/Mac, Palin’s hypocrisy on earmark spending, and her dishonest answer to the gay marriage question. Particularly, he should have torn into her when she called the plan to gradually withdraw from Iraq a white flag of surrender. I was so upset at that line that I didn’t even go “tee-hee…withdrawal” to a friend. I suppose that was another way for her to go after base talking-point voters who had previously been unimpressed. I will give Biden a point over Palin in that he seemed more consistently knowledgable with respect to all the questions than Palin and didn’t need to resort to talking points quite as often. I’m disappointed he did not chew her up, spit her out, and tap-dance on the remains on live television. I know people have said that him being aggressive against her would have been bad strategy, but gawshdarndit (Palinism) it would have been entertaining.

Glib?

Have you ever heard the phrase “one laughs so as not to cry.”

If I didn’t view American politics as an absurd joke, I don’t think I could tolerate living here at all anymore.

She staunched the bleeding of her reputation. A secondary point of Palin’s selection is to elevate her; whether McCain wins or loses Palin is going to have the reputation needed to make a big break in the Republican party. But she couldn’t do that if she embarrassed herself on a debate forum. Yes, she dodged questions but that’s fine - she’s swooned the conservative base again, and that’s really all she could and needed to do.

Biden was weak. There are many things he could and should have gone after: McCain’s campaign manager taking money from either Fannie/Freddie May/Mac, Palin’s hypocrisy on earmark spending, and her dishonest answer to the gay marriage question. Particularly, he should have torn into her when she called the plan to gradually withdraw from Iraq a white flag of surrender. I was so upset at that line that I didn’t even go “tee-hee…withdrawal” to a friend. I suppose that was another way for her to go after base talking-point voters who had previously been unimpressed. I will give Biden a point over Palin in that he seemed more consistently knowledgable with respect to all the questions than Palin and didn’t need to resort to talking points quite as often. I’m disappointed he did not chew her up, spit her out, and tap-dance on the remains on live television. I know people have said that him being aggressive against her would have been bad strategy, but gawshdarndit (Palinism) it would have been entertaining.

Biden didn’t run over Palin because it wasn’t neccessary. It was smart to ignore her and attack McCain and he did a great job of that. The best parts of the night for him were “John is not a maverick” and the list of how “his policies are no different than George Bush’s”. The Obama campaign learned from that week that they focused on Palin that that strategy is unneccessary because she’s not running for President.

Honestly, I found it refreshing that there was no really aggressive tearing apart on either side. It was a congenial, respectful debate.

I agree with Mullen that it was probably better Biden didn’t plow over Palin, it probably would have made him look bad. He’s also right to focus on McCain since he is the one running for President and Palin doesn’t have the best record in general, so attacking her would have been more like beating a dead horse. From what I’ve read, all sources are saying Biden won, but that Palin “exceeded expectations” (which is sort of like winning the special olympics). In all seriousness though, Palin didn’t hurt McCain and did seem to generally do well. She may have reaffirmed the conservative base, but that isn’t what she or McCain need to do right now. What they need to do is attract those who are undecided, which is something Biden did do. It is sort of sad though that the economic problems could possibly help Obama out since Democrats are known for more social programs and Republicans are sort of thought of a creating the problems (it also doesn’t help that McCain said that the fundamentals of the economy were still strong).

EDIT: Although, from what I read on the fact checking of their arguments, Palin misleadings were slightly more and to a greater extreme than Biden. However, both had their fair share of misleadings.

Well, it’s been awhile since we’ve had a Palin-ism, so here’s a fresh one.

No, it’s not about Obama’s ties to Ayers, though I’m surprised no one’s commented on it yet.

She misquotes Madeleine Albright while in California. Now, I’m sure a lot of people out there are going ‘lulz she can’t get anything right’, but that’s not the real issue at here. It isn’t even about intentionally quoting it out of context for her own benefit. Nope, to me, the most telling part of this event was this little quote:

Palin seemed to realize that the line could be viewed as grating. As the audience cheered, she remarked: “Okay, now, thank you so much for receiving that well. I didn’t know how that was gonna go over. And now, California, let’s see what a comment like I just made, how that is turned into whatever it’ll be turned into tomorrow with the newspaper.”

So, just so I have it straight. The McCain camp has spent the last while burning the media for ‘gotcha’ reporting (naturally never saying a word whenever Obama or Biden fall victim to it, but hey, that’s just politics as usual, I’ll let it slide), and now Palin seems to CONSCIOUSLY say something to get the media talking, and DARES them to. Why? I can only guess so they have more ammunition to throw at them whenever they dare to report on something they screwed up.

I think she deserves to have her words crammed down her throat with about a metric ton of crow for intentionally using someone’s words (someone who very obviously doesn’t support her) for her own benefit then DARING the media to report on it. This only could’ve been more sad if she followed it up with a ‘nyah-nyah’.

http://www.mediacurves.com/Politics/J7029-VPDebate/

Not surprising in the least.