Bernard Madoff gets sentenced to 150 years in prison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31604191/ns/business-us_business/?ns=business-us_business

Anyone think he has the arrogance and charisma of Conrad Black to keep from being made a bitch?

Not that I’m saying Black is a good guy, but he made life for himself pretty good behind bars, all things considered.

Helps that Black wasn’t sent to a place like Shawshank or anything.

I’ve heard people say 150 was excessive and was just the prosecution showing off, but I think it’s appropriate. Not in the sense that it’s what Madoff will have to endure (as if), but it doesn’t set a bad precedent. Had they given him 12 years like the defense was originally asking for, it might have opened the way for other scam artists who might not commit as large a fraud as Madoff did to point to his sentence and say ‘look what he did, and look what he got’. It might sound silly, but potential loopholes are potential loopholes.

The man’s dying in prison anyway. Serves him right, too.

That was exactly the reason why they gave him 150 years. They made an example of him so no one would think to try it again. Hopefully.

Yeah. Sorry, you can’t destroy the lives of that many people and get out free, ever. If anything’s justice, this is.

I’m trying really hard to feel bad for his victims, but all they lost was money, which I’m pretty content to have almost none of. Being singularly driven by wealth, the way you’d have to be to participate in Wall Street at all, erases any sympathy I have for anyone connected to this story in any way. They were all rich morons wanting a free ride and any pain they endured for not having money was inflicted by themselves.

I dunno, I just find it hard to give a shit when money is the driving force behind something. Who honestly cares? :confused:

No, not all of Madoff’s victims were rich people. Quite a few of them had investments with him through organizations, funds, or investment advisors. In any case, you can’t just magically disappear $50 billion without a huge ripple effect on the economy in general, causing regular people to lose their life savings due to other investments going down the tank because of it. Charitable organizations have had to close because of this. It’s simply due to the sheer scale that a regular sentence just isn’t feasible.

Yeah, cause we all know charities only care about the almighty dollar.

I’m talking about the victims mentioned in the story. I never thought of the ripple effect and that is bad, but the people claiming it ruined their lives to be swindled on Wall Street don’t evoke anything from me, at all. And come to think of it… the state of the economy doesn’t really, either. I feel like if your life can be ruined by money, you’re probably living for the wrong reasons, and you’ll probably be miserable no matter what happens anyway. I don’t like seeing people suffer, but when the suffering comes from financial loss, it really just fails to set off my injustice detectors. That’s not to say I don’t think money is important at all, but these guys sound like they’re crying over spilt milk, not struggling to find milk.

It could just be that I’m a heartless ass.

You do know that everything costs money, right? And others starving in Darfur doesn’t make these peoples suffering any less valid…

Playing the “Person A is a better person because they suffer more than Person B” game is pretty pointless, considering we’re all gonna fucking die someday.

The love of money, not money itself, is the root of all evil. According to the bible, at least. Anyways, I’m trying to say that your argument, that these people should quit bitching because all they lost was money, is insane. Like I said, everything costs money. Money becomes food, shelter, transportation, communication, education, healthcare, and a myriad of other, less tangible things.

Being an ass doesn’t give you the right to be stupid.

/serious buisness

What you just said has nothing to do with what I just said. I don’t even know how to approach this, because nothing you wrote is based on anything I wrote.

I’ll just leave it alone :confused:

I guess the real point here is the things these people enjoy cost money. Or perhaps they bought a house on the basis of ‘expert’ advice that they could afford it because of this or that investment (this was a serious problem, particularly with a certain type of mortgage which was promoted in the 80’s in England). Because people believe economic experts the same way they do medical experts, they did it and then BAM, experts were wrong and the fact is now these people suddenly can’t afford the house they’re living in, despite the fact that they were told it was 100% guaranteed. These are not people who understand the details behind how investments work (as if anyone understands it with 100% accuracy).

So basically they were cheated out of their money and are now crying because suddenly they can’t afford to live. Obviously this is not the case in every situation mentioned, but it’s a common situation. So yeah, you’re an ass who fails to understand that different people have different desires from you, some of which actually cost money. And your way is neither the only, nor the correct way of living.

I think your confused, a lot of people involved weren’t high risk investors. Madoff offered conservative returns on his client’s investments. So you’d give this guy money you wanted invested for a later date, most likely retirement, and he’d just take it for himself and say he invested it. So when it comes time for you to retire, looks like your shit out of luck and have to find a new job at 65 years old.

Adults don’t just spend their money on candy and video games! There are bills to be paid and loved ones to support.

I guess the real point here is the things these people enjoy cost money. Or perhaps they bought a house on the basis of ‘expert’ advice that they could afford it because of this or that investment (this was a serious problem, particularly with a certain type of mortgage which was promoted in the 80’s in England). Because people believe economic experts the same way they do medical experts, they did it and then BAM, experts were wrong and the fact is now these people suddenly can’t afford the house they’re living in, despite the fact that they were told it was 100% guaranteed. These are not people who understand the details behind how investments work (as if anyone understands it with 100% accuracy).

So basically they were cheated out of their money and are now crying because suddenly they can’t afford to live. Obviously this is not the case in every situation mentioned, but it’s a common situation. So yeah, you’re an ass who fails to understand that different people have different desires from you, some of which actually cost money. And your way is neither the only, nor the correct way of living.
Except that I don’t fail to understand that at all, and nothing I said suggests that I do. And yes, in terms of the well-being of global society and the longevity of the human race, it is invariably wrong to live a north American life of luxury. It only becomes right when you stop giving a shit about anyone but yourself and become a myopic slave to your own animal instincts instead of being mindful of your effect on others. Of course, most Americans are perfectly content with living in a bubble where nothing they do matters, no one can ever be wrong, and no one is actually strong enough to have a bold opinion on anything, because as long as they pretend the world’s problems don’t exist, they don’t. Your post is a good example of the “no one’s approach to living is ever wrong under any circumstances” bullshit I’m talking about. These forums in general are a pretty serious offender when it comes to that kind of well-meaning but false mentality.

So yeah, what I’m saying is, it’s hard to feel sorry for people who don’t give a shit about others and live only for themselves, and having different desires has little to do with that.

BMO, I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think you understand the scope of my apathy here :stuck_out_tongue:

Only nothing I said implied that every way of life is equally correct, or enjoyable. Of course I think some approaches to living life are wrong, but to suggest that yours is the only right one is equally fucking retarded.

Also these people aren’t living only for themselves, they’re trying to provide the best life they can for their family. This will indeed come at the cost of an equally good life for other people. What’s your point? That’s how the world works. The fact is you’re just utterly apathetic and have displayed the apathy towards others you just decried. Well done.

The victims mentioned in the story came from all walks of life. The first one mentioned was a widow who found out she lost all her retirement funds after her husband died.

Money isn’t everything in life, but money is important for a lot of things in life. Like it was said before, everything costs money, even the food you eat. And if you say you can just grow it out of the ground, where are you going to get tools and materials, let alone the seeds? Are you able to wait for the crop to mature so you can eat your moneyless food?

How can the state of the economy not evoke anything from you? Loss of jobs mean loss of futures for many people. Those who have families can’t provide for them or a better future for their children.

Madoff deserved what he got. Imagine if he got out in 12 years – or less, with parole – and quietly retired to his million-dollar estate, living comfortably with his wife for 15 or so years, rendered painless by expensive modern medicine, before passing in his sleep.

This sets a horrible precedent for business criminals. “If Madoff got 12 years,” major embezzlers would argue, “well hell, I should get one year at most.” No matter how bad a business criminal you were, you’d run into an invisible wall at 12 years, because that’s what the biggest business criminal in history got. If 12 years is the maximum risk, and billions of dollars are the maximum gain, that sounds like a decent gamble.

That lack of deterrence would be unfair to future victims of business crime. The shortness of the sentence would be unfair to, say, armed robbers, who regularly get life sentences for doing one millionth of the harm Madoff did. If 150 years is what it takes to ensure Madoff never leaves prison, even on parole, then he got what he should have.

Idealism is all well and good, but humans are hard-wired to care about themselves and their loved ones first. Absolute altruism, especially for people far away, is quite rare, and the urge to provide for your family is one of the strongest we have.

Well the recession is over now folks. The guilty party has been punished. Everything is back to normal.

As much as I agree with how all they lost was money and that I don’t really care about that either, he duped a lot of people, some of whome lost everything they had. I don’t think thats fair, and I agree with the need for a precedent being set. Twelve years is nowhere near enough, I’m surprised he only got 150.

150 years was the maximum sentence. Hard to get more than that.